Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Sep 2010 16:08:41 GMT

Firstly there is no question that FRONTLINE^® products may be losing their effectiveness. The active ingredients remain as effective as when they were first introduced to the flea control market in the early 1990s.

A recent webinar given by international expert Dr Michael Dryden “Flea control – real homes, real problems, real answers” deals very effectively with the real reasons people may continue to see fleas on their pets despite using FRONTLINE. The webinar was arranged specifically for UK vets and nurses and remains available for viewing at www.athomewithdrdryden.co.uk. One and a half hours of CPD will be awarded to those who watch it.

The very first question addressed to Dr Dryden at this webinar referred to the possibility of resistance. He was absolutely clear there are no data that substantiate resistance in cat fleas as a cause of modern product failures. Far more likely is that perceived product failures result from client compliance issues and lack of understanding of product attributes.

This is supported by our experience at Merial where more than 90% of the persistent infestation cases received at our customer call centre are attributable to poor compliance or poor understanding of the flea lifecycle and the way products work. Other causes include using the wrong pack size for the animal’s weight. We have had no cases to date we have attributed to resistance. Pet owners simply do not understand that no insecticidal home treatments kill the pupal stage, therefore despite treating the home and the pet, new adult fleas will continue to emerge from pupae and be seen on pets. This can last for a period of several months in a heavy infestation.

Dr Dryden also made this observation: ‘If we are not seeing resistance in places like Tampa and Miami, which are truly subtropical where we are bombarding fleas repeatedly with insecticides over decades, …. chance of finding it in England is not likely’.

Rachel Ballantyne

Technical Manager Merial Animal Health

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Vanessa Butler — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 16:19:03 GMT

With regard to fipronil resistance there are no studies to date that show that there is any. Poor product application and inappropriate environmental control are usually to blame as stated by some of the responses. If there is a large flea problem and the environment is severley contaminated with the different flea life stages it can take some time to get on top of the problem, in some cases upto 3 weeks. The pupa stage is the fleas cunning protective stage so stimulating hatch and then kill of this is needed when controlling the house.

The Australian study will certainly be of interest when it comes out. Effipro contains exactly the same amounts of fipronil as Frontline and comes in the same animal weighted pipettes. It is very cost effective, has a valve in the top which allows product application and importantly can be sold singly or in any multiple.

This Summer does seem to have been very kind to the flea population (and many other parasites too) with the rain and high humidity and warm ambient temperatures so the challenge in certain situations can be very high, so ensuring that adequate treatment is given and the owners getting to grips with the flea life-cycle is essential.

Vanessa

Field Advisor

Virbac Ltd

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Tracy Windler RVN — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:12:30 GMT

[quote user="Nicola Russell"]

[quote user="Tracy Windler RVN"]

I'm probably opening a can of worms, but does anyone have any scientific backing to the "resistsnce" theory? (as I'm not an expert in pesticides!) but I don't know if resistance can be built up to pesticides. It seems to me, like humans developing a resistance to arsenic, though, hopefully we don't come into contact with it so often! Hopefully fleas that come into contact with fipronil, die, so only ones who have minimal contact, but then survive, could, theoretically, develop a resistance in their progeny??

[/quote]

There are hundreds (over 700 species) of documented cases of pesticide resistance (had to write an essay on this for Uni), the colorado beetle, two spotted spider mite and even aphids have become resistant to many pesticides. Its the same as antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria.

[/quote]

Ah! The pesticide expert I was looking for! Thanks, it was something I was wondering- didn't want to assume that it was just the same as antibiotic resistance.

But, essentially, I don't have a problem with it, I don't use it every month,though, I only apply it as and when (more regularly in the summer), but use a flea comb very regularly to keep an eye on any "visitors" my pets have.

In my experience, all spot-on products can have a reduced efficacy when used on long-haired cats, so that is also the reason I do not choose other products over frontline (unless I get a free pack of something!)

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Polly P — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 19:07:48 GMT

I brought some fleas home from work off a kitten that was crawling with them...

I got several bites that night and washed all the fabrics in the house and treated my cats with effipro (first time I have used it) and within 48 hours, all was good again!

At £11 or so for four pipettes, I can't knock the effipro at the moment!

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Fleabee99 — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:41:38 GMT

scrap that ive just realised that the frontline ive just bought it blue and the last one was green? am thinking he may have had combo before, oh balderdash!!!

he'll be crawling within the week

any ideas? we currently spot him once a month anyways so shall i keep it like this until the pack is empty or do it sooner like every 2 weeks as vicky was saying i think?

help!!

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Fleabee99 — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:20:40 GMT

dexter has been on frontline for the few months we've had him and i havent noticed any problems and chris my oh always takes him in the woods, fields, long grass etc so i would assume if he was gona get them he would but we've found nothing and hes brushed every few days so i think id have come across some by now

plus im one of them ppl that fleas just love the taste of so id have bites everywhere! i only know this because chris's parents have a staffy which occasionally gets bob martined, obviously as much use as a choc fireguard, so i always had bites if i stayed over

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Madeleine Lind — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:43:20 GMT

Here in Denmark, we are often approched by clients who have used this product for several years, but is now experiencing fleas even though, the product is applied as it should be. We reccoment that clients use advantage for cats and bayvantic ( I think you call it baytrix) for dogs.

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

SmegSlayer — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 18:14:04 GMT

we currently have a locum vet who said that she noticed this problem in Bermuda last year with Frontline. It wasn't rep brainwashing that made them change product coz they never had one.

Another rumour going round is that maybe frontline knew it had had its day and that was why they declassified it to over-the-counter as they knew vets wouldn't by a vet only product that didn't work???

The locum we have says that it seems to be patchy areas where it is and isn't working.

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Rachel Jayne — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:10:46 GMT

I think it was another thread I wrote on abuot fleas also - I have seen a few cases of suspected resistance that have gone through to Merial's technical department & they couldn't find any other reason to explain why it hadn't worked...

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Nicola Russell — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:06:13 GMT

[quote user="Tracy Windler RVN"]

[/quote]

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Sal the 1st — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:03:32 GMT

[quote user="Maisy"]

[quote user="Sal (the 1st) Holesworth VN CMH Chyp (M)PNLP"]

I do think there is some dubious product information and claims being made being since frontline became more readily available

[/quote]

I agree that it got some bad press after it started being sold outside of vet practices, but even before the change in legislation there were some cases where it just didn't do anything for flea infestations (even if home was treated correctly, applied to animal in consult, washing bedding etc). Yet use a different product and problem solved.

Wouldn't like to think they were a superflea though-imagine that!

[/quote]

granted the superflea remark was tongue in cheek but there must be some reason why it is still very effective for some people and not others???

Capstar and Program were effective products when they were used properly ( but that just didnt happen very often).

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Maisy — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:57:05 GMT

[quote user="Sal (the 1st) Holesworth VN CMH Chyp (M)PNLP"]

I do think there is some dubious product information and claims being made being since frontline became more readily available

[/quote]

Wouldn't like to think they were a superflea though-imagine that!

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Sal the 1st — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:49:49 GMT

I do think there is some dubious product information and claims being made being since frontline became more readily available

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Sal the 1st — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:45:16 GMT

[quote user="SmegSlayer"]

when tiddles came to me he was flea infested. His real mum was a vn as well and always used frontline so I used frontline and indorex and it made no difference. changed to advocate and no more fleas

[/quote]

ok - maybe you had superfleas then? but frontline and effipro is still working well for some people otherwise I wouldnt be using it and I certainly wouldnt be selling it. Indorex again a product I use myself and dont have a problem with

The only real problem I have had is where people say they have treated cats and house for fleas and it hasnt worked and when you ask them you find out it is usually a combination of the following

BM or similar used on cat and fleaspray or powder or flea bombs from pet shop

used frontline or effipro but not treated environment and is heavily infested

used frontline or effipro spray but dabbed it on like perfume and didnt treat environment

where people have treated only some of their animals

used tx for environment from pet shop or similar and used frontline or effipro once or less a year - ie the person who comes in complaining their frontline has gone out of date and not working when they purchased a 3 pack in 2006!

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Maisy — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:33:11 GMT

Normal Frontline can be bought in pet shops/chemists, its only the Frontline combo that is still POM-V. The overall preparation won't have changed apart from whatever they add to combo to kill of all flea lifestages.

I think the resistance has been noticed for several years now. Frontline has been around at least 15 years so some animals will have had this for their whole lives and would imagine this would affect efficacy long term.

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Claire Cameron — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:31:49 GMT

[quote user="Sal (the 1st) Holesworth VN CMH Chyp (M)PNLP"]

[quote user="Tracy Windler RVN"]

I would always use frontline over other products. I've only ever had problems with Stronghold/advocate with my animals. I take each case as an individual and recommend the product that best suits the animal/owner (within dispensing law, obviously!) so use most things. The only problem I have ever had personally with frontline is not lasting as long as it should in my long-haired cat, which is known to happen, I believe.

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I am glad somebody else is not having problems with frontline I was beginning to think it was just me from reading this. Advocate left one of my cats with a permanently bald patch on the back of his neck after a single application so I dont use it anymore - havnt had a problem with frontline or effipro when they are used properly - and that includes treating the house once a year with indorex

[/quote]

I've had not a single problem with Frontline.

Does anyone think the problem is maybe that owners aren't using it to manufacturers guidelines as they aren't being advised correctly now that it is NFA-VPS?

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

SmegSlayer — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:25:54 GMT

when tiddles came to me he was flea infested. His real mum was a vn as well and always used frontline so I used frontline and indorex and it made no difference. changed to advocate and no more fleas

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

nets — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 23:59:58 GMT

am i right in saying a few years ago the only way to get frontline was through your vets but now it can be bought freely, do you think in order to have it as an off the shelf product they changed the ingrediants because it would seem strange that the fleas would bild up a resistance nation wide instantly.

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Sal the 1st — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:58:12 GMT

[quote user="Tracy Windler RVN"]

[/quote]

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Vicky RVN — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:55:35 GMT

But why would you choose to use a product which you find doesn't last as long as it's supposed to??? I've had experience of it only lasting 3 weeks, which is annoying!

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Tracy Windler RVN — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:43:18 GMT

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Kerry Spain — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:13:39 GMT

Frontline has had it's day I'm afriad. Mis-used and oversold (by non-veterinary establishments) they got greedy.

Effipro much more effective than frontline as the carrier solution is different from that of frontline.

I'd always choose something else over frontline to be honest.

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

fiona eldridge — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:04:21 GMT

We're having a bit of a fleatastic summer here in Spain. The hot humidity seems to have encouraged them. Here we're finding frontline combo is not working, frontline spray kills fleas on contact but a week later dogs have fleas again. We use advantix for those owners unable to use Scalibor collars (fleas, ticks, leishmaniosis) but find that its not so good on fleas. Stronghold and scalibor makes a good combo..... stronghold is still good on fleas, and the scalibor works on the ticks and mosquito. Effipro we were fairly pleased with but we're now discovering isn't fab...... its such a hassle!! Failing all that we resort to "defendog" bloody strong stuff, but works a treat on killing fleas..... it does the same to cats though too...... well the cat we had in a while ago survived after about a week in a comatose condition. The owner won't be making that mistake again...obviously the big picture of a cat with a massive X through it wasn't enough warning for her! Followed 2 days later by another cat treated with over 25kg dog advantix. That one had the same resonse. Survived too though eventually. Sorry veered off there. Bring back Promeris!! haha! We even invented a code on our computer for "Promerisitis" we had that many dogs and cats having a reaction to it. Even nearly bumped my cat off with Promeris cat. Please someone invent a NEW treatment that kills fleas!

PS anyone want 6 ton of Practic.... we've loads of that gathering dust in a cupboard.... absolutely useless that stuff!

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Vicky RVN — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 21:44:18 GMT

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA"]

Never had a problem with it, and I use it on all of mine, and have done for years... We use advocate /stronghold in our practice, as well as frontline, personally I think it is poor or improper application and a bit of rep/boss brainwashing

[/quote]

I don't think that's the case when i've had clients come to me who've used frontline for donkeys years and never had a flea problem, then suddenly they get a problem...it can't be what they are doing because they've always done it and be fine, so must be the product. I've personally used it and only found it to work effectively for about 3 weeks. My sister uses it on her cats and hasn't had a problem yet.

Re: Frontline- really losing it's effectiveness or not?

Cat Woman — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 19:58:44 GMT

The "old style" Frontline is readily available everywhere around our practice - chemists, petshops & farm supplies shops. We stock & recommend advocate routinely, but can order Frontline Combo should someone specifically request it. I do not believe that it works as well as it used to - I think that there has to be some sort of resistance building up, because it has been around for so many years. The funny thing is, that people still phone us to complain that it hasn't worked, even though they haven't purchased it from us! So,we end up giving the free advice (good advice) that comes from a vet practice & not the crap advice given by chemists/petshops/farm supplies who just want to sell any old rubbish. I've no doubt that a resistance will build to advocate in a few years, but by then, I expect there will be some new, all singing, all dancing product available!