BBC Panorama tonight:

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Ian_M — Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:09:18 GMT

From the Battersea website...

"In the case of Brandy, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier shown on Panorama programme, Battersea’s team of behavourists carried out extensive assessment, behavioural work and reassessment of the dog over a period of time. The programme showed only a snapshot of this work done to help this dog and does not detail any of the more obvious signs of real and consistent aggression shown by Brandy towards other dogs. This is regrettable, as the risks of rehoming this dog would have been clearly obvious to viewers. We would stress that any decision to put a dog to sleep is never taken lightly by the staff who work here at the Home and that we do all we can to help all the animals in our care." Find out more about Battersea's Intake & Assessment process "

Always worth doing a bit of research before assuming.

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

miranda luck — Wed, 04 Aug 2010 09:51:19 GMT

[quote user="NickyVN"]

Well its done some good! One client yesterday who was going to breed his staffie has now decided not to. Its a start!

[/quote]

Was that decision directly due to TV program or did you talk him in to it?

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Nicola Smith — Wed, 04 Aug 2010 09:35:35 GMT

Well its done some good! One client yesterday who was going to breed his staffie has now decided not to. Its a start!

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Steph Phillips — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 16:16:26 GMT

[quote user="mrs mac"]

[quote user="scotlass"]Spikes disease[/quote]

How do you manage/treat a dog with Spikes Disease?

Poor wee Border. Love those dogs!

[/quote]

This is a good site that explains alot http://www.borderterrier-cecs.com/

I got Jess on Royal Canin Hypoallergenic.. wanted to try that first instead of meds, and a year on.. so far so good! She still has some mild 'twinges' but no where near as bad as before :) x

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Caro Laithwaite VN — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 14:03:02 GMT

Popped up from kitchen attempting to cook. Better clarify.

My thoughts are not based on anything been said l have to admit to loosing track just things l have felt over the years not aimed at anyone. Now back to spagetti b.

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Kim Buckley — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:54:18 GMT

I understand why dogs are being pts and I know it has been happening for a long time, I just wouldn't want to have to do it on a regular basis.

Having said that I recently went to a rescue centre to drop off a stray cat that they agreed to take for us and I had a quick look around and they had a couple of big, bull mastiff type breeds who were acting very aggressively to me walking past their kennel. I understand that most of this behaviour is kennel guarding but most of them had been there a long time and were struggling to find a home. I think in that circumstance that PTS is the best option as a long term stint in kennels with very little chance of a home is a hell of a lot worse.

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Caro Laithwaite VN — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:41:15 GMT

Having run a rescue kennels in Tenerife it "hardened" me to reality. I agree with Sal. I have over the years put or helped many healthy dogs and cats down. The reality is what will you do? Leave them locked in a kennel for years because quantity of life is better than quality? Leave them on the street because they are alive.. of course they are scared, cold sick starving, lonely but hey at least alive.

I say animals in this comment as l believe it should apply to the main pet groups cat, dog, rabbit. I also feel that other species should have big licences namely the snakes and amphibians as people get them and neglect them terribly.

I am a big believer in stopping breeding totally (unrealistic but one can dream) To allow animals in rescue homes a chance. Failing that then here is some more dreams l want to see.

If an animal is stray and pregnant then it should be aborted.

To own an animal you should have to pay a licence fee. if it is not neuted then a huge fee if it is neuted a smaller fee. No one bar the elderly should get away not paying that fee. If you say you can not afford it you shouldn't have the animals. I accept that people do fall on hard times and would get caught up in this but it is aimed at those that want all the "free" treatment.

If you want you pet to have more than one litter a year you should sit an exam to prove compitancy and pay a HUGE licence fee. The one litter is whether you have 1 animal or 20 it is a litter/owner not animal.

Microchipping and basic insurance.

Have several more wants but have to run will get them up later if l get a chance.

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Anne Whipple RVN — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:06:21 GMT

I agree. Along with hopefully bringing awareness about too many dogs being bred this programme will make people aware that there are lovely dogs up for adoption in these centres. I personally am NOT an advocate of purebred dogs (partially for the reasons highlighted in this show) but if people still want purebreds, they can get them from rescues, not breeders.

As for licensing- yes, it would be a great idea, but very hard to regulate. Here in Ireland, a license for 1 year costs €12.70, of which the post office who sells them gets around €3, so very little money of the license actually funds much of anything. Also, there's 1 dog warden here for a huge area, so there's no enforcement whatsoever. I've never, ever, been asked to produce a license. I know in the US, the license is only given after the dog has it's rabies vaccination and it's then worn as a tag on the collar- big penalties for not having one. The other problem in Ireland is that even if a person is fined, the council rarely enforces it, so it's just a waste of time.

Anyway, I'm glad to see this topic was highlighted- now let's hope it sparks some debate among the public and raises general awareness. I really don't understand why people are so reluctant to neuter here.

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Nicola Smith — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:07:05 GMT

I'm glad the programme was shown. If it only stops 1 person breding its done some good. I'm fed up of telling people not to breed their staffies and they think Im joking when I tell them the kennels are full of them. Hopefully this is the wake up call some people need. Yes it may have upset some people but I think often that is the only way to get the message across. We are in Staffordshire and staffies make up a hge percentage of our patients, we are shocked when someone registers a new puppy that isnt a staffie!! You can also tell the ones that wont even make it to ther first annual booster with their owners - most people have no idea what owning a dog is all about.

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

loobylou — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 23:16:26 GMT

[quote user="BengalcatRVN"]

[quote user="loobylou"]

[quote user="Sal (the 1st) Holesworth VN CMH Chyp (M)PNLP"]

[quote user="BengalcatRVN"]

I think I wouldn't cope putting healthy pets to sleep, I want to offer them some love for their final momemts, but don't think mentally I'd cope. It's a sad world we live in, It's not what I became a nurse for. Sick and suffering I can cope with, I'm helping to end suffering. healthy animals, PTS coz they don't fit with the furnishing is something that would make me mad I've never had to do it, and I hope I never do.
I'm not a RVN for your conveniance, pets have souls too.

Rant rant rant
(who put beers in the fridge?!)

[/quote]

I dont like doing it - in fact I hate doing it, but the way I think about it is that if i dont do it and if somebody kicks the dog out and leaves it to roam and fend for itself what sort of end might it meet? I used to work for a practice that did work for a number of greyhound kennels - we had a steady stream of failed racers. I hated doing it but if I didnt you knew there was a good chance this dog would end up dead some other way - and i preferred it my way because at least it was quick and certain.

[/quote]

I agree, I would rather help than it be done in some other manner or with no love or compassion. I know its not nice to think about but in some circumstances surely itsbetter than the dog spending years in a kennel somewhere?! Im sure the rescue centres dont take the decision lightly, it must be incredibly hard when you have set yourself up as an establishment to help these dogs.
Unfortunately as much as we would like to we cant save them all

[/quote]

I'd want to, don't get me wrong. Love and compassion is ALL I ever I want to give. Just mentally I don't think I could. Don't think I don't care, please.

[/quote]

I didn't think that at all, in some ways you probably care too much, if that makes sense?! I completely understand and maybe my view would change if I had to do it day in day out, just was hard to see that dog put to sleep out in the garage on the stone floor with no one talking to him. I personally feel I could have made a very small difference to how that dog was feeling just then.

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

miranda luck — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 23:09:34 GMT

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA"]

[quote user="miranda luck"]

We don't have systems like that in the UK because charities take up the biggest slack in regard to the unwanted dog (and cat and rabbit) populations. It's all about available funds to manage such programmes.

[/quote]

Yes but its the charities in the states that foot the bills, they(the charities) dont have to keep the dogs, as there is little or no room in the centres, but they feed the dogs, and vaccinate/neuter them. The inmates are already trained to train the dogs.. so everyone is happy

[/quote]

It's a great idea but I think it may be government funded? If not directly, then by subsidiasation. We just don't have those schemes in place in the UK.

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Sal the 1st — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:53:36 GMT

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA"]

I dont know why they dont try what they do in the states with all the stray dogs who are difficult to re home etc.

I dont know if anyone has ever seen the programme cell dogs. Basically the dogs live in the prisons with people who are in for life. They have been assessed and trained in dog traning/obedience. These dogs are kept with the inmate until they are fully trained and obedient. The reason they are given to the lifers is.... basically they have all the time in the world to train the dogs. These men get the priviledge of having the company of the dog and I suppose it's better than staring at the four walls all day.Some of them get very attached to the dogs, but as soon as one is fully trained there is always another to take their place.

These men manage to stay out of trouble, because if they cause trouble then they are taken off the dog training programme.

Just a thought, I think something like that would be good here, it would solve a lot of the problems with unwanted dogs, and also probably solve a lot of the prison trouble problems too.

[/quote]

yes have heard about this and feel it is a damn good idea

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:53:34 GMT

[quote user="miranda luck"]

[/quote]

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Mac Feather — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:52:32 GMT

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA"]. Basically the dogs live in the prisons with people who are in for life. They have been assessed and trained in dog traning/obedience. These dogs are kept with the inmate until they are fully trained and obedient.[/quote]

Never heard of that before- thought provoking concept.

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

miranda luck — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:51:44 GMT

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:47:57 GMT

I dont know why they dont try what they do in the states with all the stray dogs who are difficult to re home etc.

These men manage to stay out of trouble, because if they cause trouble then they are taken off the dog training programme.

Just a thought, I think something like that would be good here, it would solve a lot of the problems with unwanted dogs, and also probably solve a lot of the prison trouble problems too.

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

lorraine wiggins — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:39:03 GMT

that bit abt brandy pulling towards other dogs made me a bit angry my dog does this coz he wants to say hello once hes said hello hes fine.

that was sad tho it did make me cry!! the thing is these staffies that are being bred aint really Kennel club staffies!! this is the prob they are crossin them and still callin them staffies. most of them would not hurt a fly. its the owners not the breed!!!!

it makes me sick that these ppl breed to make money most decent breeders have their whole litter chipped and first vacc that aint cheep with a litter of 5-8.

im not sure abt showin the dogs being placed into bin bags that was a bit sad, that bloke also could have showed the dog some love!

id like to say i would def pay for a licence for my two dogs and i think they should bring in breeders licences. also the local dog warden should have more power to enforce fines like not picking ur dog crap up and being able to asked ppl for their licences if they see them walkin their dogs. its the government that we need to speak to!

it was an eye opener but the ppl in the wrong dont have hearts or they wouldnt give their dogs away! id miss a night out or somert to put food in my dogs bowl! i

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Mac Feather — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:32:12 GMT

[quote user="scotlass"]Spikes disease[/quote]

How do you manage/treat a dog with Spikes Disease?

Poor wee Border. Love those dogs!

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Sal the 1st — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:29:05 GMT

[quote user="BengalcatRVN"]

[quote user="loobylou"]

[quote user="Sal (the 1st) Holesworth VN CMH Chyp (M)PNLP"]

[quote user="BengalcatRVN"]

Rant rant rant
(who put beers in the fridge?!)

[/quote]

I'd want to, don't get me wrong. Love and compassion is ALL I ever I want to give. Just mentally I don't think I could. Don't think I don't care, please.

[/quote]no I didnt think for one minute you didnt care I was more defending my side as being the 'horrible' nurse who does the deed - just wanted people to know that I did it not because I didnt care or had become hardened to it - I actually care very much about how these dogs get treated

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

BengalcatRVN — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:22:13 GMT

[quote user="loobylou"]

[quote user="Sal (the 1st) Holesworth VN CMH Chyp (M)PNLP"]

[quote user="BengalcatRVN"]

Rant rant rant
(who put beers in the fridge?!)

[/quote]

I'd want to, don't get me wrong. Love and compassion is ALL I ever I want to give. Just mentally I don't think I could. Don't think I don't care, please.

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

loobylou — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:16:23 GMT

[quote user="Sal (the 1st) Holesworth VN CMH Chyp (M)PNLP"]

[quote user="BengalcatRVN"]

Rant rant rant
(who put beers in the fridge?!)

[/quote]

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

miranda luck — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:13:18 GMT

[quote user="Jenny Cook SVN"]

Also, the stray staffie they called brandy, that made me angry and little upset... it was healthy but was deemed dangerous cos it pulled on lead toward another dog, thereofre had to be euth'd. Abit of training and would be fine i guess. If brandy was considered dangerous, then my louie must be a beast and aggressive! (Louie pulls occasionaly cos he wants to say hello)...

[/quote]

Unfortunately, there are not enough resources (or otherwise) in welfare to either manage or modify behavior problems. I'm sure that Brandy had been assessed several times (minimum stay 7 days) and he was deemed unsafe to rehome. Again unfortunately, there are too many hundreds of absolutely 'happy healthy' dogs looking for homes to be able to deal with the 'others'.

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Sal the 1st — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:10:36 GMT

[quote user="BengalcatRVN"]

Rant rant rant
(who put beers in the fridge?!)

[/quote]

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

miranda luck — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:06:41 GMT

I appreciate what you are saying but I also know a lot of views in regard to the dog license are based on the management of the old system. Surely now (with micro-chipping) it could be monitored more effectively?

Re: BBC Panorama tonight:

Steph Phillips — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:05:26 GMT

[quote user="scotlass"]

Yip am sure it was you that put me on to this Steph x

[/quote]

this is the thread I started http://www.vetnurse.co.uk/forums/t/4896.aspx?PageIndex=1

Kim.. your dog has it too? ...... interesting! is he/she on any meds? I got Jess on rcw hypoallergenic.. seems to work