What Is One Supposed To Do?

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

emmRAR — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:13:10 GMT

It drives me mad when clients won't stand back and let me restrain for bloods etc. We have one cat who's hyperthyroid and has to come in for bloods fairly frequently, and the owner will just not let go of him, every time. We have to tell her two or three times that 'I'm just going to hold him so the vet can take a sample', and then she always gives me a look and stands back slightly but always keeps her hands somewhere on the cat, like on his back or his side or something. I'm not the most experienced nurse so I find it really distracting! After we're done she always yanks him back into this bear hug type thing, gives me another look and doesn't speak.

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

A-J — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 09:29:47 GMT

[quote user="Carolyn Edwards RVN"]

On the subject of inadvertant groping, these days at least there seems to be fewer male vets who think it's OK to ask you to fish something out of their trouser pocket, although I'm half expecting to hear a chorus of people disagreeing with me!

[/quote]

pmsl so familiar of days one by we had one whoused to 'show'usthecomputer systemby standing behind us and putting his arms around to reach the keyboard

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Carolyn Edwards — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 09:00:22 GMT

[quote user="BengalcatRVN"]Had a client once insist on holding the cat for euth, refused to allow us to place an IV, was the worse euth I've done.[/quote]

Total sympathy over this one! I've started to ask owners to do something specific, like act as bum-stop (I don't phrase my request this way!) or stand in front of me and scratch the top of the animal's head and to talk to the animal. So far it's been pretty successful but I know sooner or later there will be someone who has to be more hands on than I'm comfortable with. At the end of the day euthanising an animal is much more stressful for the owner than for us and I guess I'll have to put up with a bit of inadvertant groping.

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Sally Seddon — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 08:45:19 GMT

[quote user="Rachel Jayne RVN C-SQP MBVNA"]

Then there was an incident, (I've mentioned this on here before too) with a German Shepherd, an ex-police dog. Was brought in by a "friend" of the owner, who was happily chatting away to the vet about it's career in the police force, seemilgly "restraining" it as the vet examined it...
The man obviously didn't have a very good grip on it though, as when he said "oh yeah, his command to catch the bad guys was GET HIM!...the dog lunged forward & pulled the vet to the floor by his upper left arm..... The man freaked & let go of the lead, the dog carried on biting the vet it was only when some other members of staff heard the comotion & burst in to help did they manage to dislodge dog from vet... The man meanwhile just stood in the corner of the consult room apparently looking a bit like

Madness....

[/quote]

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Anneke Kuipers — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 03:57:41 GMT

[quote user="Polly SVN"]

I am like that, I hate people up in my space and often find myself doing this little dance with people to move back away from them to where I am comfortable, and them moving forwards into the space I am trying to make.

[/quote]

Someone gave me the tip to start talking really loud when people stand too close
I have not tried it yet but it sounds good

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Rachel Jayne — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 22:28:18 GMT

I have a few restraint horror stories from my first practice

We used to have a very aggressive (that the owner refused to euthanase despite nearly every vet in the practice telling her & it attacking her other dog frequently) Shar Pei who had to be put on the dog catcher pole & wrestled by the two burliest male vets in the practice to be top-end dose'd dom/torb'd before we could get anywhere near him to give him his annual booster! Quite how he didn't die from all the stress/asphyxiation I don't know....
Then there was an incident, (I've mentioned this on here before too) with a German Shepherd, an ex-police dog. Was brought in by a "friend" of the owner, who was happily chatting away to the vet about it's career in the police force, seemilgly "restraining" it as the vet examined it...
The man obviously didn't have a very good grip on it though, as when he said "oh yeah, his command to catch the bad guys was GET HIM!...the dog lunged forward & pulled the vet to the floor by his upper left arm..... The man freaked & let go of the lead, the dog carried on biting the vet it was only when some other members of staff heard the comotion & burst in to help did they manage to dislodge dog from vet... The man meanwhile just stood in the corner of the consult room apparently looking a bit like

Madness....

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Sal the 1st — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 20:29:55 GMT

[quote user="Polly SVN"]

[/quote]

by taking a step back you are relinquishing your space and allowing somebody else to lead. What would happen if you took a step forwards or even made a move to take a step forwards

[quote user="Polly SVN"]

I really don't like being touched in passing by people I don't know. In work it is totally counterproductive when owners do that because it makes me very tense and on edge, which transfers to the animal.

[/quote]

My advice would be to work on this. I know not everybody is touchy feely - in just the same way that cats 'home in' and can be overwhelmingly friendly with people who are terrified of them some humans are the same way and you generally find the happier you are with the occasional contact the less likely you are to get bothered if that makes sense

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Polly P — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 20:11:10 GMT

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

BengalcatRVN — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 19:23:35 GMT

[quote user="Polly SVN"]

/\ Oh my God, lol! Nightmare.

Something mentioned earlier really rang a chord with me, owners who are trying to put their hands over yours when you are restraining- wtf is that about?! Bloody annoying. Even when the vet has clearly said 'I will get the nurse to hold him because they need to be held in a certain way and have things done at certain times and the nurses are trained for that.

They still hover right behind you totally in your personal space- what do they think is going to happen? Are they going to try and slap our hands away if the animal yelps?!

[/quote]

I hate clients all up in my personal space. I have space issues. I need A LOT of it. Had a client once insist on holding the cat for euth, refused to allow us to place an IV, was the worse euth I've done. Blew the 1st vein, and my hand was close to the ladies boob.

She'd told the vet she'd done it before and raised the vein etc, she lied. I had to take over and she'd refused to put the cat on the vetbed I'd provided.

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Polly P — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 19:16:52 GMT

/\ Oh my God, lol! Nightmare.

They still hover right behind you totally in your personal space- what do they think is going to happen? Are they going to try and slap our hands away if the animal yelps?!

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Saskia Quinn — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 00:13:00 GMT

[quote user="Cat Woman"]

...when a dog that clearly has not received any form of discipline comes in for a routine vaccination & will not let the vet get near it. I am called in to help & immediately get a slip lead as the dog has some sort of rubbish harness, which allows no control of its head. I put the lead on no problem & the dog is all lovely lovely with me. I reach to restrain its head to the vet can do a check & administer the vacc...& all hell breaks loose - the dog is trying to bite everyone, its flipping & rolling all over the floor (the owner is saying good boy, good boy the whole time). When it settles, I make it sit & we attempt to muzzle it (the cannot do this either) - & off we go again! This is repeated until its teeth do connect with my arm (& I am now pretty annoyed!). The owner is screaming that I'm hurting it & saying that we won't bother to vaccinate it, because its too scared. Really? So, its fine for your dog to bite me, but me restraining it with a slip lead whilst it goes spaccy is not acceptable to you madam? I wouldn't be surprised if we get a complaint from her. I bet that would have looked great, filmed from a fish-eye camera on someones lapel!! - but, Panorama, I would do it again - I was not hurting that dog, or being cruel in any way. What do other people do? We did vaccinate that dog & it happily ate a treat from my hand straight afterwards (a scared, fearful dog would not do that surely?). Finished!!

[/quote]

I have been on pharmacy all this week, we have 2 adjoining consult rooms, so I am in one doing my nurse consults, vet is in the other. A boxer comes in for annual booster vacc, lovely dog, lovely owners. I am in cons room writing up a previous case when I hear the commotion beside me. I go to ask if vet needs assistance - yes!!

So, to cut a long story short, beautiful MN 5 yr old boxer, doesnt like being restrained, not aggressive in any way, just boisterous.

So when the two grown men are unable to restrain the dog for a 'quick' subcutaneous injection, I am asked to intervene........I hold the dog by the collar, while gently reassuring him that all is fine. Needle goes in, booster given.....while vet is in process of telling owner, 'thats him for another year......' dog lies down, legs rigid, neck rigid, I interrupt, 'hey, something not right with Sox'.

Sox has fainted due to the stress. Immediately, myself and vet carry him straight through to prep. I am not joking....eyes fixed and dilated, no response. ET Intubation and maintained on high levels of O2 while vet draws up life saving drugs. While she is in the process of drawing up drugs into syringe, I say to her, Laura, I think its too late - she nods her head in agreement, while her head starts to nod, Sox tries to chomp the tube, well, never in my life was I so happy to see a dog actually chomp its ET Tube!!

Sox made a full recovery - much to the delight of myself, Laura and his owners!!!! However, we done an ECG trace and he is off to see a heart specialist as he has some form of Cardiomyopathy.

My goodness, who would have thought a routine booster would have resulted in such panic?

And there was me thinking my 'laying of hands' had such a calming effect, when in fact, the dog was getting ready to try and die on us!!

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

funkyfish — Wed, 04 Aug 2010 13:33:57 GMT

I would not have vaccinated the dog but got the O to bring it in for desensitisation visits twice a week for the next couple of months and got the O to buy a muzzle and practice putting it on at home. I have good success with this program an have 2 previously untouchable dogs (ie dog catcher and domitor to examine torn nail!) coming in happily now. I tell the O what would happen if it cut its pad and needed redressing every few days- or if it got really ill? It's so important to be able to handle them safely. But with some owners there is no telling them!

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Erica Huggins — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 23:20:05 GMT

Yep

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Cat Woman — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:26:11 GMT

[quote user="emmRAR"]

What breed was it?

[/quote]

It was a collie cross. Strangely though, having never been bitten in 15 years at work, I was bitten again today! An EBT this time - must be getting slow in my old age!

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Kim Buckley — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 16:49:40 GMT

[quote user="StephSVN"]

In complete contrast to original post - I did an ID chip on a staffy puppy a couple of weeks back - went through the whole thing of it may be bleed, puppy may scream, happy to take it down the back etc - guy of the couple that had brought it in said he was happy to hold, then said to the dog - "Now then mate, this is for the shoes!" Made me chuckle all day.

[/quote]

Haha that's brilliant!

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

StephSVN — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 16:41:45 GMT

Loved this reply - this is always my reaction once I am away from the client...maybe we should start slapping stupid clients - they might learn and no one could mistakenly think you were being cruel to the animal?!?

Luckily our vets are all very good at bringing stuff down the back so rarely have to do anything in front of owners - any sarcastic coments since the program have been met by a very honest, full eye contact statement of 'I promise you I would not do anything with your pet that I would not do to my own' - although to be fair we haven't had many and I think most have been joking anyway!

In complete contrast to original post - I did an ID chip on a staffy puppy a couple of weeks back - went through the whole thing of it may be bleed, puppy may scream, happy to take it down the back etc - guy of the couple that had brought it in said he was happy to hold, then said to the dog - "Now then mate, this is for the shoes!" Made me chuckle all day.

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

emmRAR — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 16:17:27 GMT

What breed was it?

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

lorraine wiggins — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:53:47 GMT

i had one today with a cat and the client would not let me anywhere near their animal they looked at me like i was gonin to harm their cat. the cat was going mad we only wanted to look in its mouth coz it werent eating and coz the owner was so pig headed they thought they could control it better i stod out the way and watched the sparks fly and the owner ended up gettin bitten serves them right. bloody get out the way and let me do my job!!

i hope ur arm is ok x

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Sally Seddon — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:46:11 GMT

[quote user="GremlinNurse"]

TBH I HATE restraining animals in front of most owners(some are sensible and know you are just doing what is necessary) especially cats for jugular bloods! Almost all of our vets would rather take bloods away from the owners too ;)

[/quote]

ah im with you on that one, i really dont like holding cats for bloods infront of owners! i always feel like they are gonna think im doing something wrong to their pet . holding dogs can be a nightmare too cos sometimes i find the owners put their hands over mine when im holding the dogs head. i feel like slapping their hands out the way

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

GremlinNurse — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:35:58 GMT

It's a difficult one isn't it?

So quite often we take them out the back and they do tend to calm down a bit when away from owner. Change of scene plus muzzle is often enough for them to think about :)

We started puppy clinics about over a year ago and we're really seeing the benefits now at booster time, happy dogs..if a bit too happy(!) and happy owners!

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

BengalcatRVN — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:28:34 GMT

OMG, wanna slap the client!!!!

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Cat Woman — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:25:29 GMT

[quote user="Steph Worsley RVN MBVNA"]

I would have probably removed the dog from the consult room and do the vaccine with the vet in the back explaining that it may settle down a bit away from the O

[/quote]

I'm afraid that since the Panorama program, if anyone says, I'll just pop him out the back to take a blood sample (or whatever) - we get met with sarcastic comments about mistreatment etc!

We have told the owner that he must be muzzled before entering the surgery from now on - TBH, she was such a wet blanket, that I doubt she will manage it!!

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

BengalcatRVN — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:24:39 GMT

my old boss dominated a dog that was evil (golden ret of all things)
Have no idea how we did it, got 2 slip leads, 2 tape muzzles, mikki muzzle, basket muzzle, thing still going nuts. My old boss just went "nuts" at it (having warned the owners before hand) They knew it was crazy, had already been kicked out of 2 vets, they just wanted to have it treated. by the end of it, old boss could put only a baskervill on it and it would behave. To be honest, didn't blame it, old boss was nuts, would blame me if having a bad vein day (cathiters would fly), I got the blame for a client running over on the rabies booster (despite sending letter) etc etc.
Can't do that these days. I am greatful tho, most of my clients with dogs with "issues" know to muzzle and understand why we take precautions.
If people don't like the fact we muzzle, they can leave. I refuse to put my health, and the health of my other nurses/vets/joe public at risk.

Rant rant rant

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Honeybadger — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:18:05 GMT

Some people just shouldn't be allowed animals (or children for that matter) I think a pre owner ship test should be taken before and a licence held for owners of kids and animals!

Re: What Is One Supposed To Do?

Steph Worsley — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:17:19 GMT

I would have probably removed the dog from the consult room and do the vaccine with the vet in the back explaining that it may settle down a bit away from the O