I need help making a very tough decision!

Re: I need help making a very tough decision!

Tracy Windler RVN — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:57:03 GMT

Oh, sorry, Katie- did you make any decisions?!

Re: I need help making a very tough decision!

Tracy Windler RVN — Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:55:18 GMT

Sorry to hijack your thread, Katie!

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree that hoping Vet Practices will take on non-paid SVN's is a positive take on the new system. There are many positive aspects of the new system (from what I can gather-still not sure I completely understand it!) but encouraging the SVN's to be treated as work experience students who aren't becoming an integral part of the Veterinary Care team is not a step forward.

Also, I am not convinced that paying a training salary to a SVN is what has put Practices off becoming TP, but the cost and hassle of maintaining and being assessed for being a TP:-employing an assessor, allowing time for training/assessments/marking of work etc. Some of this will not be relevant with the new qualification (I think?!?) with the inclusion of ATP's and NVQ assessors not being required.

I agree that the lack of training places does perpetuate the problem of non-qualified staff being expected to take on the role of a QVN, but this is not just a training issue, but a retention issue for QVN's. If anything, SVN's in unpaid roles will undermine the work so many people have put into improving the pay for QVN's, as they will just replace the unqualified staff.

I appreciate that we are trying to reach the same end result here and that you did not intend to make this insinuation (it might be just me taking a cynical view of it!) but I don't think encouraging a potential SVN to value herself so little as to take unpaid work is a good direction to go.

Re: I need help making a very tough decision!

Rhiannon Stundon RVN MBVNA — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:15:23 GMT

I agree that it would be great to pay SVNs for their hard work and in fact we employ SVNs then send them on day release and we are a TP. However, this hasn't been working for so long now because of the expense and effort involved by the vet practice there is no inclinication to do it the way round we are doing it and so few practices train VNs and there are too few SVN places and susequently too few QVNs. It also perpetuates the problem of vet practices not employing QVNs but using unqualifieds and calling them VNs. How can such practices progress to employing QVNs or training their unqulaified staff when there is a shortage of QVNs? I'm not saying it's ideal that SVNs don't get paid for their work I'm just saying that this may be the solution to the VN profession problem, but please believe me I agree with you Tracey, but we are the minority. I am trying to put a positive light on the new developments.

Re: I need help making a very tough decision!

Tracy Windler RVN — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:07:02 GMT

I should hope that SVN are NOT treated like work experience or like Vets on EMS, as, in my experience, they rarely get to do anything (unless they get to know that practice and prove their competance, then they might get to do a cat spey, if the practice is inclined!) and are like shadows who can pick up a brush occasionally.

SVN's should be treated like valued members of the team who are being given training, but work alongside QVN's. In my opinion, if you value a member of staff and would like to invest in contented and loyal staff, you should recognise their hard work by paying them.

I would hate us to become faceless training practices who are just used by the colleges and use the SVN's for free labour in return. Thats how I see our profession. I like to think of training SVN's as cultivating future colleagues, who value your input into their career and would like to remain a part of the team once they have completed.

Re: I need help making a very tough decision!

Rhiannon Stundon RVN MBVNA — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:39:29 GMT

Your dream goal it to become an RVN.

The system is changing from one in which you gain employment in a vet practice and then get sent to college for day release to one in which you go to college or university and complete placements for no money in practice either three days a week or in block placements.

Now we can look at this as criminal and say that vet practices are getting free labour or we could say that a SVN on a training course is now like any other student i.e. paying for their own course and not getting paid to do the course (think of the placement in practice as similar to Vet students seeing practice or a day where you work in a vet practice like a day in the lecture hall).

So if money is a concern for me I would be looking for the shortest and fastest route to qualification.

The new VN Diploma can be delivered by a college over two years, it involves you going to college for 2 days a week and working in a vet practice for 3 days of that week for no money (though the practice may wish to pay you). This is during term times. So there is opportunity for you to earn money nights, weekends and during holidays just like any other student should you need to.

Remember that these changes are a good thing it now means that all of you who are desparate to get employment in a TP and start the VN Diploma can now simply apply to a college running the VN diploma and the college will place you in a vet practice. The RCVS have atually come up with a way to help more of you become RVNs, not to give vet practices free labour. The old system wasn't working becuse it gave too few people the opportunity to train.

So my advice to you personally, if you can, is to ask Whittle if they are running the VN Diploma and get onto that if you can. If not, where is your nearest other college that is doing it? There is still time to find one and enrol. Doing the VCA adds another year to the RVN qualification that isn't strictly necessary if you already have the GCSEs or equlivalent qualifications. So if time and money is really tight try to qualify in the shortest time possible.

Re: I need help making a very tough decision!

Tracy Windler RVN — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:09:00 GMT

Hi, Firstly congratulations on getting this far! A foot in the door is ogten the hardest part. I think you and your patner are the only ones who can make this decision, but to help you make it, I would say you need to consider how your prospective employer values and treats their nurses and what their workload is.

For example, if they put a lot of effort into training their nurses and student nurses, assist them with their training and encourage them to further their knowledge, they are more likely to value you enough to give you a paid placement for VN training once you have shown your dedication. If they don't seem to consider their nurses, over-work/under pay them, their is a high staff turnover etc, then I would think twice. I could be wrong, but if people who are happy to use unpaid staff just becasue they are desperate and not be prepared to value their worth by paying them, they seem rather unscrupulous employers to me.

Also, even if they are good employers, if they are simply not busy enough, or unlikely to have any staff leave in the next few years, then, no matter how much they would like to, they could not viably offer you a position.

Good luck, I hope you stick at it!