Role of Reception staff

Re: Role of Reception staff

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:43:38 GMT

[quote user="Maisy"]

[quote user="StephB"]

No not by receptionist, usually with a nurse or a call/meet with the vet.

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Ok, thought you meant it was receptionists expected to carry this out

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no receptionist would do the bulk of the routine stuff and just do the paper work and kiss goodbye. but the vets would write up the paper work or ring the owner before the receptionist would discharge and leave a contact number for any issues later. but with big more complicated issues the vet or nurse would meet up with the owner or even bring the animal home for them! it was a nice small family owned practice.

Re: Role of Reception staff

Maisy — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:39:38 GMT

[quote user="StephB"]

No not by receptionist, usually with a nurse or a call/meet with the vet.

[/quote]

Ok, thought you meant it was receptionists expected to carry this out

Re: Role of Reception staff

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:21:58 GMT

[quote user="Maisy"]

[quote user="StephB"]

[/quote]

I'm guessing this is receptionists you mean? In which case is it really fair to get reception staff to offer anaesthetic or surgical information to this extent? Particularly in cases where the op may be non routine or sudden and although the vet may have explained risks etc during a consult, it may have been forgotten about in a panic before the day of the surgery.

[/quote]

No not by receptionist, usually with a nurse or a call/meet with the vet.

Re: Role of Reception staff

Maisy — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:50:52 GMT

[quote user="StephB"]

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Re: Role of Reception staff

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:33:14 GMT

[quote user="Maisy"]

Luckily I haven't worked in one of those practices! It's not much help to a worried owner who is likely to have forgotten what the vet may have mentioned to them in a previous appointment re anaesthetics/surgery etc. and therefore aren't really offering informed consent (which is what they are meant to be doing) if just being told to sign a bit of paper.

A lot of places I've worked at will admit before the vet comes in but if the case is iffy either being the animal isn't presenting well for a 'routine' or the owner has more queries etc then they need to wait. It doesn't even need to be a strict protocol that the practice need follow, just ensuring that someone who is able to answer questions and carry out a correct admit does the job.

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I'm not sure it might be a bit presumptuous of you to assume that they would not offer any advice or details at said practice when things are not routine or more complicated. but with many of the routine ops this was their protocol. More detailed ops were dealt with differently. In the practices I'm referring to there were alternative admit/discharge situations. but the majority of the routine day to day ops were done as i listed above. With no problems I may also add.

Re: Role of Reception staff

Maisy — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:48:59 GMT

Re: Role of Reception staff

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:40:43 GMT

You guys also need to keep in mind that not every practice has a strict protocol for admit discharge. some have their admit talk through with the vet when recommended for the surgery, or are given paper work that explains all the details and are asked to sign and that's it! many drop off their pets at the reception desk before the vet is even in or working and just sign and leave or call back to speak to the vet with any concerns.

Some come only go home with paper work and a bill! Every practice is different so then by default the definition to one practice or another of 'discharge' or 'admission' is very different.

I guess what i mean is this 'ad' that has been barked about here in this thread may be one of those practices that only believes an admit is just dropping the pet off and signing a form and maybe they have already spoken to the vet the night before or on the phone the day before or even week before when booked for the appointment. they then just sign a form with the receptionist and then hand over the pet, to which is then taken into the back to a kennel or to a nurse before the vets arrive later.

Discharge may only be taking payment and passing over details from the vet and nurses and getting the pet out of the kennel when the vet or nurse has spoken to them about any concerns earlier in the day when they called to find out if the pet was ready. Not every practice will show the wound or even get the pet out of the box, they just pass it on. Scary yes, but it happens. a lot.

Re: Role of Reception staff

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:50:58 GMT

Whenever I admit patients, I go through every single stage of what will happen to them - pre-op assesment, pre-medication, discuss the anaesthetic etc etc as I don't believe an owner can give informed consent unless they know EXACTLY what is going to happen to their animal.

I therefore don't agree with receptionists admitting animals as they are unlikely to be familiar with each stage of a range of procedures and be able to discuss this appropriately with owners.

Regarding discharging animals, again, I feel it is in the VNs remit to do this, or vet depending on the case.

I would not feel happy if I was admitted to and discharged from hospital by a receptionist. There is a massive difference in the roles of NHS receptionists and human nurses and I do wonder why it is not always the same in some practices.

Re: Role of Reception staff

Sal the 1st — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 09:52:48 GMT

no offence taken I feel a lot of the problem comes from differing interpretations of what lets face it are very vague guidelines. I know there is the excuse that there isnt enough qualifieds out there - but this has been the argument for at least the last 15 years to my knowledge and to be honest nothing has changed. We still have people fighting to train and we still dont have enough qualified nurses.

If we want to protect the VN title to me it isnt about restricting what non VNs can do - because as I already mentioned we know that practices will ignore this ....... I prefer a different approach. I feel it would be more useful for the RCVS to set a date when we can say that all nursing staff in practice will be either training or qualified at whatever level( and I mean formal training). That way the standards can be raised in every single practice and that way every single member of nursing staff will have the chance to gain a recognised qualification and something to show for what is often years of experience.

I also think we need to scrub the current system of training and get back to basics - I was discussing with a vet friend the other day the thread on here ( he comes on here too- so I wasnt sharing anything I shouldnt) about the correct or incorrect capping of a needle - we both agreed the training is getting very 'anal' and not that useful to the average practice

Well thats my thoughts on it anyway

Re: Role of Reception staff

Jeniflower — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 03:26:55 GMT

Apologies if I've offended here, it wasn't my intention. Just to be clear, I am discussing for an 'ideal' situation. Obviously I can appreciate that not every practice can have a qualified nurse available at all times for these tasks.

With regards to students, I was supervised for my intial admits and discharges until the practice I was at placement with were satisfied I was able to carry out this role and would consult a qualified nurse/vet with any problems. I therefore hold the view that this is an appropriate approach to the tasks.

I definately agree that we are at risk of loosing the respect of collegues if we don't put trust and responsibilty where due. I think however, in this situation, as highlighted by previous posts, there are limits. But fair point and I agree with the provision of ensuring members of staff are happy with their responsibilities.

It seems like we are treading a thin line between trying to protect our title and creating an 'elitist issue'. Very interesting though.

Re: Role of Reception staff

Anonymous — Sun, 18 Jul 2010 21:36:19 GMT

One of the receptionists I work with was doing a 'vet receptionist' certificate, and one of the tasks she had to do was an admit appointment. Granted, the receptionists never do admits are we are in the lucky position of having plenty of nurses in the mornings, but some 'higher up' people must believe this is part of the normal reception role.

Re: Role of Reception staff

Sally Seddon — Sun, 18 Jul 2010 20:42:24 GMT

Im 4ft 11 1/2, and yes the half inch is very important! hehe im tiny!

Re: Role of Reception staff

Sal the 1st — Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:18:45 GMT

that makes you shorter than 5ft 1 1/2! - and I thought I was short

Re: Role of Reception staff

Sally Seddon — Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:15:09 GMT

lol yerh but you get the best name!! hehe, im probably the shortest so am entitled to call my self icklesal

Re: Role of Reception staff

Sal the 1st — Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:13:21 GMT

[quote user="icklesal"]

Could not agree more with Salliee5 and Sal .

[/quote]

theres an awful lot of us sals about

Re: Role of Reception staff

Sally Seddon — Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:06:43 GMT

Could not agree more with Salliee5 and Sal . Sorry probably shouldnt of said your talking about them like idiots but i have worked on reception myself and have been on the recieving end of some very 'look down their nose at you' nurses! Its not nice and its not something i will forget so am therefore quite defensive with regards to receptionists

Re: Role of Reception staff

salliee5 — Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:53:27 GMT

I think this is a very interesting topic and I think it highlights the differences between practices all over the UK. I locum currently and the vast majority of places that have specific nurses for admits are only hospitals where there are a lot more nurses available. I have rarely worked where I would have time to spend with a client doing a full TPR and clinical exam with the owner.

Often when I am sole charge and the only qualified nurse on site, I am already in theatre when another patient comes in for an op. I have also found that aside from routine surgery (dental, neutering etc) the vet has already discussed the ins and outs of the procedure with the clients AND explained the risks involved.

For more complicated surgery, often the vet will discharge themselves as even being a qualified nurse there are things about that particular surgery that the vet knows and I wouldn't.

I also feel that even for routine surgery the vet or vet nurse will at one point have discussed the risks and benefits of the op at some point, thus leaving the reception staff to admit the animal, making sure they get a phone number and checking if fed and the usual health questions that I feel a reception staff after been made aware of what needs to be highlighted is perfectly capable of doing. Often clients have no time, at 8:30am to go through a consult with a nurse as they rush of to work after dropping their kitten in for a castrate.

I believe that in a perfect world, yes there would be a distinct admit nurse and ideally one discharging who has been involved with the surgery. But where this is not possible I am often grateful that the reception staff are capable of asking a few questions and admitting for me. I also feel (although not ideal) that with routine neuturings with the correct training a reception staff would be able to do this, often the client is sent home with a dishcarge sheet also. For for complicated procedures then a nurse or the vet should be involved.

And to Sal's point above I have never been admitted or discharged from a hospital by a qualifed nurse, they just don't have the time.

Re: Role of Reception staff

Maisy — Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:28:00 GMT

I think its a huge different to have any trained nursing staff (whether they're UQ or VN) admit or discharge a patient compared to reception staff. I know receptionists aren't idiots however most have no technical training to incorporate this into knowing how to correctly admit or discharge a patient!

Receptionists do a great job with client care because that is their job. I wouldn't expect the receptionist at a hospital to discuss my post op care however.

Re: Role of Reception staff

Sal the 1st — Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:10:14 GMT

[quote user="Jen Clarke"]

I would not be happy putting my name next to an admit or discharge that an unlisted member of staff had carried out unless I had supervised them.

[/quote]

and that would extend to trainee VNs would it ? - what would happen if you were the only qualified nurse in a practice and you were a late start? would you do the admits the night before? Some practices only have one qualified nurse, and some dont have any at all and yet they still manage to get the job done and safely.

'Mutual respect in the workplace goes far....!'

Indeed it does - but if we are not careful we risk losing the respect of some of the people we work with.

I agree with protecting the VN title, I agree with protecting the public and their pets from dangerous practice but I would hate it if protecting the title turned the VN into some kind of elitist issue where we end up with 'sorry you cant do this , you cant do that you are not a VN' - dont we have that situation already? and how many practices choose to ignore it?

we can still raise the game by acknowledging that there are some procedures that only VNs should be doing and then making sure that within our own practices that staff who maybe dont hold the qualification are adequately trained to carry out needed duties. What is important is that members of staff who are given extra responsibility are happy with that responsibility and capable of carrying it out safely.

In an ideal world yes every member of nursing staff would be qualified or training - but the world we live in is far from ideal.

Just out of interest when filling in the paperwork for a hospital admission in humans is it always done by a qualified nurse?

Re: Role of Reception staff

Jeniflower — Sun, 18 Jul 2010 03:20:58 GMT

I agree with Katie's point earlier in that I think it is important to remember who is legally listed and trusted to provide medical information on admitance and discharges. ie: 'who will get it in the neck'.

Admitting and discharging commonly involves:
-Explaination of the risks of general anaesthesia
-Explaination of surgical procedures that are to be or have been carried out
- Wound Care
- Dietary Advice
- Bandage care instructions
- Adverse reactions and warning signs
- Correct administration of medication

- I could go on and I'm sure this is just regurgitating it to you all! I'm just trying to highlight that there's a reason for the admit and discharge section in the ol' occupational standards! Thus proving medical training is indicated for this role.

If an animal dies during a GA and the owner disputes the explaination of risks prior to the surgery. Or, incorrect dosing of medication was carried post-operatively, who, as Katie mentioned 'gets it in the neck'? Yep, us as the 'supervising RVN' or the veterinary surgeon. I would not be happy putting my name next to an admit or discharge that an unlisted member of staff had carried out unless I had supervised them. I'm sorry if this offends and I'm sure there are plenty of competent support staff out there, but I've worked hard for my listing!

I think receptionists do an amazing job and I certainly could not do the job that they do, dealing with the public so well! I have the utter most respect for the job that they do and would never consider myself qualified enough to work the reception area as well.

Mutual respect in the workplace goes far...!

Re: Role of Reception staff

Sally Seddon — Sat, 17 Jul 2010 21:36:48 GMT

[quote user="Sal (the 1st) Holesworth VN CMH Chyp (M)PNLP"]

I wouldnt have a problem with an ANA doing an admit. If every practice has a clear admit and discharge routine and everybody abides by it what is the problem?

[/quote]

totally agree

Re: Role of Reception staff

Phrin Vernon RVN — Sat, 17 Jul 2010 21:36:12 GMT

[quote user="Phrin SVN"]

I don't think receptionists should be admitting or discharging!

Can a receptionist do a basic physical exam and take a basal TPR?

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I didn't explain myself very well. I think a basic physical exam and TPR should be standard for every admit - even a cat castrate. Basal readings are so important for GA monitoring, and it is easier to do in admin consult than taking up another nurse to help you after. Plus owners often mention things that may not be picked up on by non-clinical staff. I also think that we should give owners full informed consent - can a receptionist really explain to clients the risk of anaesthesia and surgery, and what the practice does to minimise those risks?

I'm not having a go at receptionists, ours are fab, but they are receptionists, not nurses or vets, and as such should not be admitting or discharging patients!

Re: Role of Reception staff

Sally Seddon — Sat, 17 Jul 2010 21:33:33 GMT

[quote user="Phrin SVN"]

I don't think receptionists should be admitting or discharging!

Can a receptionist do a basic physical exam and take a basal TPR?

[/quote]

Our vets tend to do the above on admission in our practice .

Re: Role of Reception staff

Sal the 1st — Sat, 17 Jul 2010 21:32:59 GMT

I hope i am not talking about our reception staff as if they are idiots - I work on reception most of the time Like I said before I find the nursing assistants/receptionists I work with very competant and they are very experienced and yes they do admit and discharge discharge is usually partly done by the vet anyway).

I wouldnt have a problem with an ANA doing an admit. If every practice has a clear admit and discharge routine and everybody abides by it what is the problem? As long as the person carrying out the admit has adequate training and covers all the questions that need to be asked.

No they wouldnt be able to carry out a pre anaesthetic check ( and there are cases where I feel some VNs are not adequately trained to be doing these either) but most vets do check their patients before a premed is given and certainly before an anaesthetic is given so again where is the problem?

If some of us dont feel it is right because reception staff are missing stuff out - is that down to them not being up to the job or the people who have taught them what to do not being up to teaching them?

Re: Role of Reception staff

Phrin Vernon RVN — Sat, 17 Jul 2010 21:29:04 GMT

I don't think receptionists should be admitting or discharging!

Can a receptionist do a basic physical exam and take a basal TPR?