Important change in the new VN qualification.

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Claire Coulthard RVN — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:04:28 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite VN MBVNA"]

Please note this is my only post on this thread so wasn't me guv

[/quote]

pmsl caro- said just at the right time as usual too

good debate guys, interesting points but again a wee lesson in reading your posts thru before you send just to make sure they can't be misinterpreted.

we've all been here before haven't we and at least this time none have had to be removed!

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Helen Freer — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:53:00 GMT

As someone who wants to train when they have finnaly sold their business I can see both sides of the point of view. That people should be paid for their work, but there has been people working for free eversince the degree route and placements (unpaid) was instigated. So what is the difference between the degree route and placement and fulltime 2 year course and placement? as long as the placements do not just treat them as skivies and the organisations that are doing the placements do check up on the expereince the students in placement are getting.

Something else to think about, over 20 years ago I started training to become a Chartered Accountant (which I had to give up due to family problems) a different professional qualification. To start the training at the time you had to have either a degree (any) or a foundation course in accountancy ( a 1 year poly course), then you signed a contract to train where the Accountancy firm payed for all your training (books and courses), exams, membership fees for the first attempt at the exams and you worked for them and had to keep a record of the work you did and this had to be varied and cover all aspects of accountancy, auditing, tax etc (like proof that you can do the work and it was signed off + you had to account for every 1/4 hour of every working day and be able to charge it to a client!!!!!)). So the firm had to make such that you had the chance to do different jobs. You still got paid as well, a basic low wage (roughly 1/4 of charge out rate), but were paid when you were on courses (for the first attempt). Which increased as you progressed though your qualifications (and they could charge more for you services). People once qualified in some firms, where expected to work for a year after fully qualifying at a lower wage than they could get elsewhere in recompense for the money spent on them to get them through the course. If you dropped out then you had to pay the money back re courses etc they had spent on you unless there were exceptional circumstances. Gives you an idea of how another profession used to train.

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Jazmyn — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 11:19:34 GMT

Personally I dont know what all the fuss was about...

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Katie B — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 11:12:00 GMT

Yeah, it's actually nice to finally be passionate about a job. I have had so many before which I have hated. Vet Nursing is such a rewarding job. I haven't even started yet but I see them at the practise and I am so envious. But I will get there in the end.

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Lynn Perry — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 09:44:56 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite VN MBVNA"]

Please note this is my only post on this thread so wasn't me guv

[/quote]

That made me giggle xD

It's nice to see so many people passionate about their jobs, I know way WAY too many people who are thoroughly miserable in their work. For any prospective students interested, I'm hounding the RCVS at the moment to try and get some more useful information out of them about the change to the working requirement and the hours that will be expected. If they turn around and say 'you're going to need a minimum of 3 days a week in a practise' then it makes the unpaid placement sound a bit more reasonable. Not totally, but if full time isn't going to be required (as looking at the new information you're expected to spend quite a lot of time in college) then a couple of days a week in a clinic unpaid is a little better than being expected to clock 40-ish hours for nothing.

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Sally Seddon — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:01:52 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite VN MBVNA"]

Please note this is my only post on this thread so wasn't me guv

[/quote]

LOL!! Caro, i really did laugh out loud at this comment!!

Please dont ever feel like you cant post on this forum, everyone is clearly so passionate about their job hence the reactions and i dont think thats a bad thing. Its good to have a heated debate sometimes

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Pippa Louise — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 01:18:29 GMT

At the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference and personal circumstances as to what lengths we will go to to achieve our goals examples are below:

a) someone who is willing to work free and can afford it to get into training - if they want to do it go ahead its risky but if they believe its worth it, it may well turn out to be worth it for them whereas it hasn't been for others

b) someone who is willing to work for free but cant afford it or has other personal circumstances meaning they cant do it - it's tough profession to get into from all aspects from getting into uni's to training via NVQ. It cant be helped as to why you cant train, its just something that happens and I'm sure another way of training will come available

c) people who are unwilling to work for free but can afford to (this does get to me a bit especially if they are ranting and raving about how they cant get a paid place in training so they cant train) and

d) people who can't afford to train and aren't willing to train for free - it's such a shame these days with the way the economy is, everything is going up in price even tuition fees at uni's and household incomes to match which in turn lowers bursary rates.

At the end of the day, I think no matter what our personal circumstances and personal opinions and preferences are, all us trainee's have to stick together and help each other because it's a hard profession to get into and let's face it - most of us could do with all the help we can get!!

As for QVN's, they will do what they can to help because they know what it feels like to be rejected by TP after TP and they know how low trying to get into this career can make you feel. But you've got to remember - they can only do so much without degrading their own careers which could affect a number of things such as the pay they may receive in the future (correct me if im wrong but doesnt giving the government things like free training entyce them cut down VN's wages in the future as it wont be seen as a needed profession etc i think lol or something along those lines).

Either way, we've all had a rant and voiced our opinions which I think is a great way to have a healthy debate as there have been neutral people on the forum who have stepped in :)

The point is we trainee's need to stick together like a crowd of frightened sheep (only not to be frightened, more like determined sheep trying to escape from the field - a bit like chicken run haha!)

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:27:41 GMT

TBH guys no one is at fault, and either I am going soft or insane...... but this thread is relatively tame in comparisson to some on here, I dont think anyone has got that out of hand.... in fact I am sure I have got more out of hand on various threads on here, me being opinionated and all.... and I am pretty sure CAro is up htere with me

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Saskia Quinn — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:19:17 GMT

[quote user="loopylou711"]

Again my apologies and anyone feeling scared to post don't be! we are a great bunch, we just sometimes get carried away alryt!

[/quote]

hehe Lou!! I agree! Im normally up there with you...and caro..and ST.........etc etc, not my fault this time (thats a first!) lol!!

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

loopylou711 — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:16:38 GMT

Lynn I will apologise now for making you feel wary of posting on this forum ... don't be!

Katie and I will be alright in the long run

And as Sandra says we are passionate, we all love Vet nursing and we all have our views, we will never all agree!

Please don't let this put you off posting!

Sorry to anyone i offended however I feel personally offended by some of the things i have read and the attitude of some people.

Again my apologies and anyone feeling scared to post don't be! we are a great bunch, we just sometimes get carried away alryt!

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Saskia Quinn — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:16:14 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite VN MBVNA"]

Please note this is my only post on this thread so wasn't me guv

[/quote]

hahahahahahaha really laughing out loud now Caro as is same for me!!

First time for everything, eh?!!

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:14:02 GMT

Please note this is my only post on this thread so wasn't me guv

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:10:55 GMT

[quote user="Lynn Perry"]

You know, I have to admit, when I first started this thread as what I thought was merely new information that some people might find useful, I never in a million years would have believed it would have exploded this way.

I'll honestly say that some of the outbursts surrounding it has made me a bit wary of posting in future...

[/quote]

Dont be like that Lynn, we are a passionate crowd and yes sometimes it gets a bit OTT, but we are usually all fine in the morning. I think it is good you brought it up, it just lets us all knw exactly where everyone is coming from and gives us all a cahnce to air our views..... afterall if we all agreed it would be a very boring forum now would't it?

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Lynn Perry — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:07:52 GMT

I'll honestly say that some of the outbursts surrounding it has made me a bit wary of posting in future...

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:07:42 GMT

[quote user="Phrin SVN"]

Katie, I must admit I haven't read your post, mainly because this thread is getting out of hand

Lets all view it again tomorrow (and give Arlo a chance to catch up!)

Enough

[/quote]

Agree

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Phrin Vernon RVN — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:55:07 GMT

Katie, I must admit I haven't read your post, mainly because this thread is getting out of hand

Lets all view it again tomorrow (and give Arlo a chance to catch up!)

Enough

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Katie B — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:54:15 GMT

[quote user="Phrin SVN"]

Whoooaa!

Emotive discussion, but lets not make it personal!

Step back guys, view the thread again in the morning!

[/quote]

Just to reiterate

I think this thread is done for tonight

[/quote]

I second that, getting all a bit messy. Night all!

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Katie B — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:51:44 GMT

[quote user="loopylou711"]

I have so many things i cou;d say to you guys who think unpaid work is a great idea! Do you know forget it! You clearly know more than me obv!

Katie takes my posts how you like but you aint done 37.5 hour weeks unpaid with no money comming in to know the effects it has on your life... i do! i say things to warn you of the reality

But forget everything i have said, you guys know best so good luck!

Also i have one last question katie, you say you can't wait for a trainee place to come up what makes you think YOU will get it over the other 40 people who will apply? Your dedication prob something i clearly lack as a quitter!

My last post anyways take it how you like! good luck with your unpaid placements and getting a trainee place! You know everything I know nothing obv!

[/quote]

I never called you a quitter or anybody else on here, I have no idea were this is coming from. So I am volunteering so what? I will do what I feel is necessary to get my training started. And I don't think I am going to waltz in and they will offer it to me on a plate, I know that. Nor would I ever do 37 hours unpaid. 2 and a half days is a bit different to that. Anyway, each to their own. It seems that everyone has opinions and no one knows whose right. This could be argued for months on end and still no one sided conclusion. The only thing that peed me off was the personal attack on me and my boyfriend. Unneccesary and just plain rude. I don't know it all, far from it but I won't sit here while you attack me and presume to know anything about me. All I know is that I will work hard and try my best, thats all any of us can do. And I will be proud of myself when I qualify.

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Phrin Vernon RVN — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:50:58 GMT

[quote user="Phrin SVN"]

Whoooaa!

Emotive discussion, but lets not make it personal!

Step back guys, view the thread again in the morning!

[/quote]

Just to reiterate

I think this thread is done for tonight

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Nichola231 — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:50:38 GMT

I'm with Phrin. This has gone too far!

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Steph Phillips — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:49:05 GMT

[quote user="Phrin SVN"]

Whoooaa!

Emotive discussion, but lets not make it personal!

Step back guys, view the thread again in the morning!

[/quote]

hahaha!! damn right

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Steph Phillips — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:47:59 GMT

Dont understand why you getting so defensive loopy?? have I missed something??

Kaites does only TWO days unpaid.. to me, thats nothing,.. I would do that if it met getting into a TP.. but she has also AGREED that working full time unpaid is not an option for her.. which, again.. I agre with.. and I agree with sandra, and Katie does on some parts also.. its up to her to do what she pleases.. why the attitude?

I think what you've done - working full time unpaid for god knows how long, was up to you.. showed dedication, and made you ill.. I can underatand why you would want to warn people off this.. I'd appritiate your warning if it were me planning on working 40hrs unpaid! ..but two days work unpaid I dont think is a big deal.. just my opinion anyway.. hope this doesn't cause offence to anyone!! xx

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Phrin Vernon RVN — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:44:59 GMT

Whoooaa!

Emotive discussion, but lets not make it personal!

Step back guys, view the thread again in the morning!

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

loopylou711 — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:37:25 GMT

I have so many things i cou;d say to you guys who think unpaid work is a great idea! Do you know forget it! You clearly know more than me obv!

Katie takes my posts how you like but you aint done 37.5 hour weeks unpaid with no money comming in to know the effects it has on your life... i do! i say things to warn you of the reality

But forget everything i have said, you guys know best so good luck!

My last post anyways take it how you like! good luck with your unpaid placements and getting a trainee place! You know everything I know nothing obv!

Re: Important change in the new VN qualification.

Katie B — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:31:32 GMT

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA"]

[quote user="Katie Brocklebank"]why should they be made to feel like they are in the wrong.[/quote]

See you are just not getting it... we are not trying to make people feel like they are in the wrong..... we are trying to guide them and tell them not to belittle themselves by doing this very hard job for free.... I would say that was a mockery...., but that is from someone speaking from the inside, someone who knows exactly how hard we break our backs to please the RCVS and our employers, and those of us who try and get this profession recognised.... so sorry but it is a mockery to all VN's who have worked their arses off trying to get the recognition we deserve!

[/quote]

Fair enough maybe when I am qualified I will understand it better. I understand your trying to get the recognition you deserve and by no means does any of us want to belittle that, I just can't wait for a paid position to come up, believe me for a whole year I have looked. I just don't get how all of a sudden it has got so personal. I work at my practise and pretty much all the nurses volunteered at some point. Not for their training but before to show their dedication to the TP's. It's only 2 and a half days voluntary. I aren't doing the 5 days full time nor will I be able to afford to or WANT too.