RVN's and SVNs

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Katie Mansfield — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 16:42:34 GMT

I'm with you Tracy!!!

K x

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Tracy Windler RVN — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:23:51 GMT

THERE IS NO DEFINED LIST!!!! This is such a bug-bear of mine!! "Surgical Procedures" are not defined, therefore what is classed as a surgical procedure and what isn't is in a legal grey area. There are things that are listed which ONLY VS's can perform, but not what can be done by a lay-person/ANA as opposed to QVN's/supervised SVN's. But, on consulting the dictionary definition of "Surgical" and "Procedure", I do not see how placing IV catheters or taking blood samples can be considered a surgical procedure. Especially as lay staff within DEFRA and in laboratories can take blood samples.

I'm not saying this is right, but is how I interpret the law.

Giving prescription-only medications, under direction of a VS is defined, so only a VN/SVN under supervision, or the owner/member of their household/employee can give pom's. Therefore, even applying stronghold in a nurse clinic should not be done by lay staff. Again, not my opinion!

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Lauren Emmett — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:36:44 GMT

I know this was a while ago... I was jsut wondering if you did every get a list of what an RVN can do? I'm going into a practice soon as the only qualified nurse and my boss would like a list?!?!

Thanks :) x[quote user="Katie Murphy RVN"]

Just out of interest, does anyone have a comprehensive list (does it exist) of what RVN's can do legally as apposed to unsupervised students / auxillaries. I thought things like placing an IV cannula or taking blood were only to be done by RVN's but people have been arguing otherwise with me. Some clarity please if there is any!

[/quote]

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Anonymous — Wed, 19 May 2010 15:52:31 GMT

Katie, I sympathise with your situation here.

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Honeybadger — Sat, 15 May 2010 20:56:11 GMT

[quote user="Katie Murphy RVN"]

I hope I never did that From what I have been told the people who used to enforce it are no longer around and now nobody cares. But, I am hopeful that sticking to my guns will help change things, even if I'm percieved to be "bullying" or wanting "status" above others.... I don't make this stuff up, it;s the law! Lol

[/quote]

No! you never did that! Hopefully when the new DH nurse starts she will back you up. She is my lecturer at college so will be well aware what SVN's are allowed to do!

Re: RVN's and SVNs

SharonSP — Sat, 15 May 2010 20:55:31 GMT

[quote user="Katie Murphy RVN"]

[/quote]

You need to check out the Guide to Professional Conduct for Veterinary Nurses 2010, it states the following:

"The Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966 provides that only veterinary surgeons may practise veterinary surgery, subject to specific exceptions.

One such exception, within Schedule 3 of the Act, applies to listed and student veterinary nurses.
The Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966 (Schedule 3 Amendment) Order 2002 extends the exceptions to include qualified veterinary nurses whose names are on the List of Veterinary Nurses maintained by the RCVS and student nurses.

Student nurses are those enrolled with the RCVS for the purpose of training at an approved centre or practice.
Under this exemption the privilege of giving medical treatment and carrying

out minor surgery, not involving entry into a body cavity, is given to:
a - listed veterinary nurses under the direction of their veterinary surgeon
b - student nurses under the direction of their veterinary surgeon employer to animals under their employer’s care. In addition medical treatment or minor surgery must be supervised by a veterinary surgeon or listed veterinary nurse and in the case of minor surgery the supervision must be direct, continuous and personal."

Some time ago, it was stated that students were not even permitted to take a blood sample, give an injection etc, but it was raised with the RCVS as "how can they learn if they are not allowed" The RCVS then relaxed the rules stating that students (enrolled with the RCVS) could perform basic Schedule 3 procedures (blood samples, drips, medication etc) but must be directly supervised by a qualified and listed member of staff.

It is a shame for those staff members who have been in practice for many years, ANA's, unqualified nursing assistants but officially, they are not allowed even to take a blood sample!

We all know it goes on though!!

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Katie Murphy RVN — Sat, 15 May 2010 17:46:16 GMT

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Honeybadger — Sat, 15 May 2010 17:13:34 GMT

When I was there we always used to get reminded that only RVN's or SVN's in the presence of a RVN or vet were allowed to take blood/place cannulas etc but on the few occasions I asked a RVN to help me as I was working with another unqualifed nurse I was told to just get on with it! You just cant win! Hope things are ok x

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Claire Cameron — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:54:06 GMT

Protect the title Veterinary Nurse

http://www.vetnurse.co.uk/forums/p/7100/71527.aspx#71527

http://www.vetnurse.co.uk/blogs/veterinary_news/archive/2010/02/16/70421.aspx

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Sally Seddon — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:15:38 GMT

Im an ANA and my practice lets me do the same things as the RVNs, while i love the opportunity to do these things i do get a bit worried and sometimes anoyed that im given this kind of responsibility without any kind of proper training or backup. Ive been taught by the RVNs in practice but to be honest one of the girls who taught me actually comes to me and asks me how to do things now, not ideal really but she just lacks confidence

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 14 May 2010 02:55:19 GMT

I asked this Q at the rcvs Q time and was told that:

"There is a lot of grey areas and ermm not a real list as such apart from the normal stated ones ermmm..."

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Katie Murphy RVN — Thu, 13 May 2010 22:27:38 GMT

To be honest, I'm so glad to hear someone else say it I could just weep! Thanks Kim

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Kim Buckley — Thu, 13 May 2010 22:06:50 GMT

Just turn around and say "why did I bother to do my training if anyone can do it?" I know there are a lot of experienced non-qualifieds out there but at the end of the day that's the law!

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Katie Murphy RVN — Thu, 13 May 2010 22:02:32 GMT

Thank you. I seem to be making myself unpopular with this but as long as I am factually correct I can stand my ground. At the moment the general feeling is that I am "picking" on unqualified staff by saying that they can't place IV cannulas etc......

Re: RVN's and SVNs

Kim Buckley — Thu, 13 May 2010 21:53:46 GMT

Placing IV cannula's, taking blood samples and giving medication all fall under schedule 3 so can legally only be done by RVN's or an enrolled SVN under the supervision of a RVN or Vet. This isn't the full list of things.