Dew Claws

Re: Dew Claws

Ami Fawcett — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:23:24 GMT

You cant take to front ones off unless they are damaged, but you can take the back ones off under GA.

Re: Dew Claws

Sal the 1st — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:50:05 GMT

[quote user="Bizzy McClure SVN"]

A vet I worked with once asked to borrow my scissors (the curved blunt ended ones we all carry in our pockets) I passed them over without thinking and she proceeded to use them to cut the tails of 5 puppies! I was horrified! I would definately refuse to assist with something I didnt agree with.

[/quote]

whatever happened to sterility?

Re: Dew Claws

Honeybadger — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 22:36:26 GMT

I felt like my scissors had been violated! One of the puppies died later that day as well

Re: Dew Claws

Vicky RVN — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 21:43:42 GMT

[quote user="*Steph *"]

[quote user="Bizzy McClure SVN"]

A vet I worked with once asked to borrow my scissors (the curved blunt ended ones we all carry in our pockets) I passed them over without thinking and she proceeded to use them to cut the tails of 5 puppies! I was horrified! I would definitely refuse to assist with something I didnt agree with.

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that is f***ing shocking!!!

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I agree! God you must have been so shocked!

I would def refuse to assist...i don't agree with docking/dew claws...end of. I wouldn't care what the vet said! I've not seen it done thankfully.

Re: Dew Claws

Steph Phillips — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 21:31:37 GMT

[quote user="Bizzy McClure SVN"]

[/quote]

that is f***ing shocking!!!

Re: Dew Claws

Honeybadger — Mon, 07 Jun 2010 20:36:08 GMT

Re: Dew Claws

Claire Cameron — Mon, 17 May 2010 08:36:46 GMT

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA"]

[quote user="Rachel Jayne RVN C-SQP MBVNA"]that apparently the pups pain receptors are acutally more advanced at that age than people think The boss' excuse was that at that age they couldn't feel it...so why could you hear them squealing[/quote]

I read a paper thats says different. It was a scientific paper, and the study invloved puppies being docked. They have acute pain sensitivity, but no chronic, so yes they will squeal initially but will quieten fairly quickly, as the pain receptors for chronic pain are not developed at the age of 3-5 days.

[/quote]

I've read the same paper Sandra and hold the same argument for tail docking

Re: Dew Claws

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Sun, 16 May 2010 19:35:50 GMT

Re: Dew Claws

Rachel Jayne — Sat, 15 May 2010 10:16:24 GMT

At my first practice there were only 2 vets who would do dew claws if under 3 days old, but no-one ever helped them as it was so horrible...

We had a new vet start at one point who argued the toss with the boss all the time, and quite rightly so, that apparently the pups pain receptors are acutally more advanced at that age than people think The boss' excuse was that at that age they couldn't feel it...so why could you hear them squealing.....?!

We didn't do tails, but referred to one of our btranches where the vet there would do it (once it became a legal process with all the appropriate paperwork)

With re to adult dog's dew claws - I had my collie's hind ones removed when he was castrated, as they had no bony attachment & kept getting caught in his blankets when he was a baby. The post-op aftercare was the worst part of it as he just hated his bandages!!

Re: Dew Claws

Nicola Smith — Sat, 03 Apr 2010 13:48:03 GMT

If I disagree with something I wont assist, no matter what it is? Age on my side now but when first qualified did things I didnt agee with as darent speak up.

Does anyone else still have streams of pups coming in with docked tails. We have loads - many without documents, some with but they were bought as pets so were never going to be working dogs so legislation not doing anything imo.

Re: Dew Claws

Cat Woman — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 17:44:31 GMT

I have held pups both for dew claws & tails. I felt I had to experience it before I could give my opinion. I now refuse to do it & the vet respects that - although I know he would prefer I just got on with i. However, some of the younger nurses who say they do not want to do it, say they feel pressured into it sometimes. They are not confidant enough to say no. I think that tails are definitely painful & I make sure I am out of earshot - but with claws, the noise they make is different - more of an objection to being manhandled maybe?

Re: Dew Claws

Katie Drew — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 09:52:26 GMT

When I first started nursing I held a litter off pups for dew claw removal they were few days old, and that was horrible.The pups really feel it by the way they sqeak. I wish I had refused to do it but I was just starting out in practice, think I had only been there a month. I think thats why the vet asked me! All the other nurses refused to hold them but it never stopped him doing it for breeders.

Re: Dew Claws

loobylou — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 22:17:11 GMT

I would refuse but not been in that situation yet.
My boss docked tails in a litter 2 years or so ago and the owner wasn't prepared to hold them after having the procedure explained. Boss said he would only do it if one of the nurses agreed to hold them and told the owner this. All but one of us refused and he was absolutely fine with our decision. Had we all refused he would have told the owner he wouldnt do it.

Re: Dew Claws

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:50:53 GMT

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN"]

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN"]

A question... if a RVN or VN were asked to hold a puppy to have their dew claws removed, but did not agree with the practice, would you do it to keep on your employers good side, or would you refuse?

Also, does anyone think there is a difference to removing dew claws to tail docking? reason I ask is I am actually doing an essay on tis for my Dip.

A wee bit of info I found out today which shocked me a bit... in Canada(new brunswick) they have made it illegal to remove dew claws but.... they still allow de clawing of domestic cats!! this was actually written into the new legislation

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I've refused to hold puppies for it. Saw it being done when I first became a student and the noises the puppies made were horrible!

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If you dont mind me asking Kim... how did the vet react?

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He didn't care, just got someone else to do it. He's a lovely man who says he only does it for one particular client and he did say in a jokey way that I was making him feel guilty.

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Well thats a plus! hopefully others will let me know how they have dealt with the situation, and how their vets have too. Thankyou

Re: Dew Claws

Kim Buckley — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:22:58 GMT

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN"]

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN"]

A question... if a RVN or VN were asked to hold a puppy to have their dew claws removed, but did not agree with the practice, would you do it to keep on your employers good side, or would you refuse?

Also, does anyone think there is a difference to removing dew claws to tail docking? reason I ask is I am actually doing an essay on tis for my Dip.

[/quote]

I've refused to hold puppies for it. Saw it being done when I first became a student and the noises the puppies made were horrible!

[/quote]

If you dont mind me asking Kim... how did the vet react?

[/quote]

He didn't care, just got someone else to do it. He's a lovely man who says he only does it for one particular client and he did say in a jokey way that I was making him feel guilty.

Re: Dew Claws

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:11:21 GMT

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN"]

A question... if a RVN or VN were asked to hold a puppy to have their dew claws removed, but did not agree with the practice, would you do it to keep on your employers good side, or would you refuse?

Also, does anyone think there is a difference to removing dew claws to tail docking? reason I ask is I am actually doing an essay on tis for my Dip.

[/quote]

I've refused to hold puppies for it. Saw it being done when I first became a student and the noises the puppies made were horrible!

[/quote]

If you dont mind me asking Kim... how did the vet react?

Re: Dew Claws

Kim Buckley — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:54:34 GMT

[quote user="Sandra Taylor RVN"]

A question... if a RVN or VN were asked to hold a puppy to have their dew claws removed, but did not agree with the practice, would you do it to keep on your employers good side, or would you refuse?

Also, does anyone think there is a difference to removing dew claws to tail docking? reason I ask is I am actually doing an essay on tis for my Dip.

[/quote]

I've refused to hold puppies for it. Saw it being done when I first became a student and the noises the puppies made were horrible!

Re: Dew Claws

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:47:50 GMT

A question... if a RVN or VN were asked to hold a puppy to have their dew claws removed, but did not agree with the practice, would you do it to keep on your employers good side, or would you refuse?

Also, does anyone think there is a difference to removing dew claws to tail docking? reason I ask is I am actually doing an essay on tis for my Dip.

Re: Dew Claws

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:13:41 GMT

[quote user="Cat Woman"]Actually, I believe it is legal for it to be done by anyone over the age of 18[/quote]

This is true, anyone over the age of 18 can legally remove dew claws.

The dew claw is the remains of D1 and in carnivores is now obsolete (so it's not really a thumb)! the front dews do not have metacarpals either, but 3 phalanges and a claw. Hind dew claws have metacarpal bone but only one or two phalanges.

My Rotties dont have them, they were removed as puppies, before their eyes were open. My JRT does have them and they are just a bloody nuisance as far as I am concerned, they are constantly getting caught, and it is just another nail to wrestle and cut on a dog who dislikes having her nails trimmed at the best of times! . If I had my thinking cap on the day I had her neutered, they most definitely would have been removed.

Re: Dew Claws

Cat Woman — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:30:38 GMT

[quote user="Claire 'Piglet' York RVN MBVNA"]

[quote user="*Steph *"]

[quote user="Cat Woman"]I know its fine to do pups under the age of 5 days without GA/sedation.[/quote]

Really??!!!

[/quote]

I thought it was 3days as for tails also but more than willing to stand corrected as I've never done it this way just heard of it.

I remember discussing this in a debate about docking a while back.

[/quote]

Actually, I believe it is legal for it to be done by anyone over the age of 18, as long as the pups eyes have not opened yet! This could be 10 days old, but as this is a grey area & the first reported "opening of eyes" was 5 days old, it is advised that it should be done before 5 days. (we usually do ours at 3 days).

But thats a whole nother discussion!

Seems there is no law regarding removal of adult dew claws as far as I can make out.

Re: Dew Claws

Nicola Smith — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:18:33 GMT

We will only remove flappy hind ones, not front ones as we dont think its necessary. Most clients are happy with that, and we havent seen many injuries as a result of dogs having them.

Re: Dew Claws

Fiona Leathers — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:51:34 GMT

We hould maybe identify which claws are being removed - front ones are jointed (like a thumb) and therefore much more surgery is required to remove them, therefore an anaesthetic is a must no matter what age. Usually the hind ones are not jointed and just attached by skin and therefore easier to remove, ugain with an anaesthetic - however these can have a lovely blood vessel running close by! IMO, front dew claws should never be removed, as the dogs need these to hold onto things when they're chewing - it would be like removing one of our thumbs! (Unless there was some justifiable medical reason) It also usually leaves an ugly scar too!

I removed my latest dog's hind dew claws, at an ex-lap at 3 years old, due them flapping around wilding and catching them on everything, but I would never dream of taking away his thumbs!!!

Re: Dew Claws

Katie Tallett RVN MBVNA — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:25:54 GMT

we will remove dew claws at any age for 'preventative' measures although unless there is no bone attachment or it is repeatedly injuring that claw, i tend to advise against it.

my girls have both their front dews and my boy has front and backs despite being docked (he was a rescue so who knows why ) and they are all 'working breed dogs' 1 lab and 2 working cockers. i don't work the dogs but they spend an awful lot of their time in that sort of environment and *touch wood* they haven't injured them yet - heres to 8 dews hanging off next week

i have seen lots of dogs having dews removed, usually at the time of neuter- just in case- to find the neuter wound heals really well but the dew wounds have problems healing. and to me, is it not like chopping their thumb off?? (not in the same way it would be for us but it still beens hacking through a bit of bone to chop a digit off)

i'm not 100% but am pretty much sure it is still legal to do as a preventative measure. maybe im just lucky around here and we don't have the problems with catching them but i probably see more torn toe claws than i do dews??

sorry for the barble i get a bit carried away

Re: Dew Claws

Claire Cameron — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:20:17 GMT

[quote user="*Steph *"]

[quote user="Cat Woman"]I know its fine to do pups under the age of 5 days without GA/sedation.[/quote]

Really??!!!

[/quote]

I thought it was 3days as for tails also but more than willing to stand corrected as I've never done it this way just heard of it.

I remember discussing this in a debate about docking a while back.

Re: Dew Claws

Steph Phillips — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:55:22 GMT

[quote user="Cat Woman"]I know its fine to do pups under the age of 5 days without GA/sedation.[/quote]

Really??!!!

We remove dew claws all the time at the owners request - mostly the hind ones as they just flap arond and get caught.. we've also seen far too many torn dew claws.