Vet Access To This Site?

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:50:58 GMT

There is no way to check everyone, this, like all forums at the end of the day runs on trust. And l would rather places like here than facebook.

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Noodle — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:37:28 GMT

Now, my problem is that I registered on the old site years ago, when no verification was necessary.

I was under the impression that now, you had to prove you were part of the veterinary profession in order to gain access to the forums... yet i got to join sooo easily... it worries me that jo public could easily be privy to our conversations.. Arlo? Am I wrong? (probably lol)

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:25:29 GMT

If they are vets like Gill and George then they are not here to "spy" and are welcome. However if there is a vet or other person that wants to stir up trouble then they will log on as a nurse or receptionist or whatever and get into the nurse only forums anyhow. So l do not really see any point in getting paranoid.And if you say nurse only then that locks out all trainees and auxiliary and reception staff.

I think that yes there has been problems occasionally but if there is someone that causes trouble then they get publicly named and shamed and made fools off and they will be.

Nothing is 100% secure you can walk out the door and get hit by a bus, There is to much conspiracy theory about. Did you know that diane was killed by aliens from mars in league with mi5.

On the other site we had it sorted fine no names or practices needed naming you can always get a second anon name if you are worried about someone finding out who you are. In fact Arlo has said that is fine. Use the anon for posts re bullying or complaints and carry on threads as we did on the old site use your normal name for general threads.

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Noodle — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:25:05 GMT

[quote user="steph worsley"] I was under the impression when we changed sites that vets would have limited access..ie to post jobs or events[/quote]

Do they not have limited access? Just like we have limited access to vetsurgeon.co.uk? If not, then why not?

I think it would be great to have an anonymous, central forum, that both vets and nurses had equal access to, but also think that nurses (as do vets) need forums that are relatively private to that profession.... if that makes sense!

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Steph Worsley — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:52:25 GMT

[quote user="StephB"]

I personally think that the vets forums should be for the vets and the nurses forum should be for the nurses and each of those forums should have a 'general forum' that both vets and nurses can read and reply to. nurses and vets need a place to have their privacy. but at the same time if we nurses have a topic or if Arlo you see a topic that might be best for both parties with permission by both parties maybe you could mirror it or move it into this 'general forum' when requested. otherwise i think it's going to go down hill.

[/quote]

I think this is a good idea. I was under the impression when we changed sites that vets would have limited access..ie to post jobs or events,

Dont get me wrong some vets are great in fact a couple of my closest friends are vets but as with anything there are some bad apples and Ilike a few people i'm frightened that discussions will go under ground or some nurses might be scared to post for fear of their bosses figuring out who they are.

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Selena Carnell — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:37:18 GMT

[quote user="Faye Eaton"]

Surely if the place you are wokring in is that bad, then why not change job??, ok some jobs are hard to come by, but why be unhappy? I know thats giving in but I can say in 15yrs of nursing Ive worked anywear that bad?, yes ive seen some bullying but if its taken under control and confronted they things work out??

[/quote]

You have been very lucky thats all i can say, i have been bullied mentally in about 3 practices, some where dealt with and others were ignored because they were higher staff that were doing the bullying! Yes i could have left and i did eventually but when being a VN is all that you have ever wanted to do, and positions are hard to come by, and you have been made to feel so low some times it is hard to know what to do.

I have no problems with vets being on here, there are afew VN friendly vets i.e George C (surprised hes not been on the new site yet!) some vets are so far up their own backsides they cannot see properly. I think there should be open access to each. I dont think there would be many vets interested in reading a VN site, only those that really do care.

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:50:05 GMT

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:27:18 GMT

Wow, this has opened up a big discussion.

I think that the most important thing to stress again is that the reason why the VetSurgeon forums are not currently open to nurses is for one reason and one reason only:

The reason is that VetSurgeon is still at a very early stage in its life. I still have a very long way to go in terms of building the community there. And until I have really established a good working community on that site, I think it will hinder me to have too many nurses on there. Not because of any issue between vets and nurses, but simply because if you are a vet and join a community to find it full of nurses, you'll probably think 'this isn't really for vets, it's for nurses' and go away never to return.

There's another reason too. I've just cleaned my wallet out building the websites, and I need to make something back. Advertisers also woudn't like it if they went to VetSurgeon and found more nurses than vets!

So it really is as simple as that, and I will remain nervous about having too many non-vet members of vetsurgeon until such time as there are a few thousand vets registered on that site, and a similar collaborative forum community has developed there.

Once the VetSurgeon community is properly established, my views (at the moment) are:

1. I agree with Caro that discussing things openly is the ONLY way to solve things (a lot of wars could have been prevented in this way!). I am very keen to foster more cosntructive debate and discussion between vets and nurses.

BUT

2. I agree with the point that Gillian made earlier: that "discussing a named person or practice online in a damaging way serves no constructive purpose". Absolutely right.

3. However, I do think that almost all problems can be discussed and solved without naming names, as has happened on VetNurse in the past.

4. Interesting the point Caro makes about private messaging, and whether that will drive discussions underground (ie private messaging). I hope not, and that members will continue to discuss issues in the forums without naming names.

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:57:31 GMT

I agree with the fact that vets also have problems however they now have a site they can shape to their likes to discuss problems. If it worked or not who knows but it was a place that people could put up their feelings. l do not think you have been on the old site and seen how people used it to discuss problems but it would be worth a trip to it.

l feel that discussing things openly is a better way to solve things for to long dirty linen has been hidden away. Until it is aired it will stay dirty. No do not need to mention names but the linen does need airing.

I also wonder how the new site will alter the discussions about feelings that we had on the old site. Apart from those of us who were open about who we were and printed our contact details it was impossible for people to talk to others in a private way. I am sure that now we have pvt messaging the cyber space will be alive with a lot that people won't print for professional reasons.And a lot of under the radar contacts will be made.

Life moves on l await the shape that this site takes it is so different in feel it will be an interesting voyage.

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:40:43 GMT

Caro - OK. Fair enough. But emotional problems are not limited to VNs - as I am sure you are aware from the statistics. And you are correct - discussing them with peers is vitally important. Most vets reluctance to do this probably makes problems worse for them. But an open online forum is not the place to discuss these. Someone can ask for help but carry on the conversation privately. Or the VBF careline is specifically there for that reason. I really don't mean to give the impression I am unaware of the issues facing VNs - just that discussing a person or a practice in a damaging way online serves no constructive purpose.

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:36:09 GMT

Look up battered wife syndrome.

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Faye Sewell — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:34:51 GMT

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:29:43 GMT

So yes do agree with what you have said but there is always a but...

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:27:29 GMT

Problem is Gill is that a lot of nurses are to scared to do that. They come on here to get support and try to find out is they are worth being either a nurse or human they are totally demoralised by attitudes towards them at work.

l won't go into the psychological damage it causes surfice to say no it is not just a case of leaving. It is called "Beaten wife syndrome" It is not just wives, nor is it just physical but mental abuse as well.

The veterinary profession has a very nasty underbelly and until it is confronted it will continue to claim targets. Having said that pretty much all working environments have a viscuous side l know because l deal with people from around the world and in all professions who are targets of it and contact me for help and advice. So yes l get angry but if you saw some of the emails l get you would understand the reason for that anger.

http://www.lifeafteradultbullying.com/

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Sal the 1st — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:19:59 GMT

agreed and point taken

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:16:03 GMT

yes you are Faye! Lol!

No, but seriously, it is unlikely you would find assistant vets online discussing anything about the practice or their boss that could be considered damaging or offensive to either. But believe me, they WILL have issues too with the boss - as I am sure the nurses will be aware. Some nurses aren't always so restrained. If the nursing team want to be taken seriously, they need to adopt a professional attitude, face up to problems and be constructive in their comments. I am all too aware that vets and bosses aren't always open to comments or criticism - but nurses should be working to convince them that they are professionals too and will behave in a professional manner.

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:09:02 GMT

And should add that l am always speaking to vets about the vs and the vn site. l explain that vets are welcome here but may find things hard going because of past problems but if people are willing to build bridges that is what is best the few as usuall have spoiled it for the masses as is always happening.

And overall there is nothing stopping the small mined and vindictive signing on under a false name and saying they are a vetnurse or whatever so maybe it is best to just live as we are. if anyone does cause trouble then they get booted and outed they will show themselves to nurses and vets as untrustworthy and do themselves the harm they sought to do to others.

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Faye Sewell — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:03:29 GMT

Maybe we need to go back down the line af saying only a few vets allowed? as you say some of them can give constructive helpful advice? (and im not just saying that coz Gillian is my boss!)

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Sal the 1st — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:01:24 GMT

I'm sorry Gillian - please dont get the idea that I would like to exclude all vets or senior practice staff - but not all vets or senior practice staff come onto a nurses forum to give helpful and constructive advice as you have already done.

There was a case on the old forum where comments made by one of the members caused her problems within the practice she was working. I am anxious that it wouldnt happen again on here.

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

F1chick — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:55:34 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Hmmm.... could I suggest that the vets that care little for nurse's opinions, don't value their work and ignore their suggestions, are unlikely to be found roaming the forums on vetnurse???? And if you are going to exclude people on the basis that you don't want bosses or superiors seeing any comments related to them, what about practice managers and head nurses?????

[/quote]

This is very true with regard to the vets on VN.co.uk.

With regard to the practice managers and HVN's, I think that we find it slightly easier to relate to HVN's as ultimately, they will have probably been in our, or a similar position....

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:53:41 GMT

The problem is that some people have had problems from vets reading their comments and deciding they do not want "their staff" on here. This has caused a lot of people to back off scared and just read and not post.
With the vetsurgeon site Arlo said he felt that vets would talk more freely if nurses were not about.
I understand that several times vets have attacked nurses and nurses spoke out in the thread and there was problems over that.

Personally l do not bother with vs site l aint welcome so why waste the bother and if any vet from when l was emp. (l am now a locum) told me not to come on vn or tried to make an issue out of whatever l posted... well bring it on sweetie bring it on.

However for the most people do not want that hassle not that l do l just am not getting stepped on any more any which was as l have been in the past nurses want just a place to feel secure that what they say will stay with nurses but If vets do come on as you have done (and george whereever he is now) they are happy enough to have advice from any place and chat with vets it is just because of previous problems lots are wary.
As to vets coming on here well l do not have a problem l am just irritated that we can not go to the other site but loop back to earlier comment .

Lots of justs in that lot.. oh well hey ho just off for a coffee and see if anyone can make sense of that little lot

Just editing as read your comment, unfortunatly a lot are petty little vindictive scroats that are paranoid and do come on and troll through to see what is being said. It justifys their small mindedness.

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:52:31 GMT

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Faye Sewell — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:52:26 GMT

[quote user="F1chick"]

Puts hand up, especially as I've just referred someone to it!

[/quote]

????????????????????????????????????????

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

F1chick — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:50:27 GMT

Puts hand up, especially as I've just referred someone to it!

Re: Vet Access To This Site?

Faye Sewell — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:47:35 GMT

Ummm its a hard one, I can see it from both points of view. Can understand that people are worried about what they write, not nice having staff you dont want reading other things!, id personally get it out in the open with colleagues, but maybe ivve been in practice too long? maybe its newer nurses who find it hard? but also I feel vets can give some constructive advice and help out?