If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Steph Phillips — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:44:23 GMT

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]

Also what would happen if an unqualified nurse did something they shouldn't be and it caused an animal to die eg. gave the wrong medication, and the owner decided to sue. It would be bad enough if a qualified nurse did this but if they were unqualified then surely the vet could get in big trouble for allowing this to go on. Do vets not consider this when employing unqualified nurses and then expecting them to do a qualifieds job? Just a thought.

[/quote]

I've had that discussion with the vet sooooo many times.. and your right - it would be him that got sued if I did something wrong.. luckily though, that has never happened. I always check, check again - then check again.. and if I dont feel comfortable, I refuse..

I can see why this debate can rattle everyone - only when bosses open their eyes and employ more qualifieds or at last become a TP, then imo things would greatly improve!

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Kim Buckley — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:19:51 GMT

[quote user="Sal (the 1st) Holesworth VN CMH Chyp (M)PNLP"]

I do wonder how many practices will take on tp status once they discover they can take on low or no cost trainees and where it will leave those nursing staff that are too old for funding? and where it will leave those with no qualification if this were to happen (see another current thread for this - I am not making it up!)

[/quote]

Yeah will be interesting to see. I personally think it is a complete joke expecting student VN's to work for nothing. What are they supposed to live on?? Also makes vet nursing look even less professional as I bet there is no other on the job training where you don't get paid!

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Sal the 1st — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:55:48 GMT

[quote user="Kim Blowing RVN"]

I have a lot of respect for unqualified, experienced "nurses" but if my dogs were having to have bloods taken, drips or medication then I would want a qualified nurse doing this.

An unqualified nurse might have more experience than some qualified nurses but unless they have been tested on something then how can it be proved that what they know is correct.

I think that different titles are important and I also think that different uniforms should be worn as this is what the general puplic will notice.

There doesn't need to be a massive divide between different roles. There are kennel assistants, ANA's and VN's where I work and we all work together and couldn't do our jobs as well as we do without the other. I am very proud of being a VN and worked very hard for it and have got myself a nice student loan to pay back because of it. I have been told by someone with absolutely no formal training that they could do my job but just weren't qualified. Made me wonder why I bothered doing my training if people who should know better have that opinion of a qualified nurses role.

[/quote]

I am the only qual nurse in my practice - I dont see myself as elite I have no airs or graces or anything daft like that, and I would hope that nobody sees me that way everybody works together to get the job done and thats how it should be.

I do feel however that everybody should have access to some formal training at whatever level.

something else I feel very strongly about is that if qualified nurses are now being pushed into regulation and extra responsibilities then everybody should be bearing the brunt and also that wages should be commensurate with a professional status and extra responsibilities - but thats another story

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Kim Buckley — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:51:09 GMT

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Kim Buckley — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:44:43 GMT

I have a lot of respect for unqualified, experienced "nurses" but if my dogs were having to have bloods taken, drips or medication then I would want a qualified nurse doing this.

An unqualified nurse might have more experience than some qualified nurses but unless they have been tested on something then how can it be proved that what they know is correct.

I think that different titles are important and I also think that different uniforms should be worn as this is what the general puplic will notice.

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Steph Phillips — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:26:35 GMT

I do understand - honestly ..

[quote user="Nick BATFINK Shackleton Dip AVN(surg)VN MBVNA"]At the end of the day I personally think it's down to the vets/RCVS. Until such a time when only qualified/training staff can be employed to do certain tasks I think we are just going to go round and round in circles wasting our breath...[/quote]

yup.. I totally agree with you Nick.. thats what I was referring to in my earlier post:

[quote user="*Steph *"]the only way that will stop is if my employer, and other vet surgeries wake up and smell the roses!! [/quote]

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Nick Shackleton — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:11:02 GMT

[quote user="*Steph *"]

[quote user="Nick BATFINK Shackleton Dip AVN(surg)VN MBVNA"]or those undertaking some formal training under supervision of fully qualified staff! [/quote]

Which is what I do... I work under the guidence of the Vet! granted I'm not aiming (yet) for a qualification, but it's still under strict guidence.. we (un'quals) don't have free run of the practice ya know lol

[/quote]

You have totally missed my point and I ain't sure how I can spell it out to you.......

I'm sorry but I don't think unqual'd staff should be the sole support to vets. It just makes a really mockery of the whole training system and what we put our selves through to get where we are...

I understand that people aren't as fortunate as others to gain a training position or afford to attend full time studies. At the end of the day I personally think it's down to the vets/RCVS. Until such a time when only qualified/training staff can be employed to do certain tasks I think we are just going to go round and round in circles wasting our breath...

I'll give you an example. As many people know I now work for the NHS working in radiography. Our patients are cannulated for most of their examinations. I have lost count of how many animal patients I have cannulated over the years. Yet I had to attend a course and complete a number of supervised cannulations before I was deemed competent and have a certificate of competency.

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Steph Phillips — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 19:44:39 GMT

[quote user="Jax"]Yeah i understand im not that slow![/quote]

Umm am I missing something? I never said you were slow? sorry if my post seemed that way

[quote user="Sal (the 1st) Holesworth VN CMH Chyp (M)PNLP"]

you are right many clients dont care, all they care about is the bill at the end of treatment - but for those that do care I feel they are getting a pretty bum steer when they think they are paying for qualified staff and they arent, and its not that they have a choice in the matter when they dont actually know because there is nothing to differentiate between qualified and un qualified

[/quote]

Just thinking.. how many clients actually ask "are you qualified" .. very little me thinks. imo wether it was a protected title or not, it won't stop me or other un'qual 'nurses' like myself doing our job & doing what is asked of us.. the only way that will stop is if my employer, and other vet surgeries wake up and smell the roses!! the public DO have a right to know if I'm qualified or not, and I DO say (when asked a question that I'm unsure of) "I'm not qualified to answer that, let me ask someone who is (vet)" - so in no way am I misleading anyone, but I do agree that there is nothing to differentiate between qvn's and un'quals.. .. Sal.. good idea on the 'ask the public'

[quote user="Nick BATFINK Shackleton Dip AVN(surg)VN MBVNA"]or those undertaking some formal training under supervision of fully qualified staff! [/quote]

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Sal the 1st — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 17:36:29 GMT

[quote user="*Steph *"]

[quote user="Jax"]

To the un quals that are replying on this post what are your reasons for not undertaking the qualification. I respect that alot of you are very well exprerienced and alot more than myself! And i also have alot of respect for the QVN out there as i know how stressful it is working and doing your portfolio/ college and exams!

I think it is important that there are different terms used for un quals and Quals- there is not alot of public recognition of what us nurses are/ do/ done to get where we are today as it is and i think that this is a good way to put this across to them!

We have a qualification we should be proud to call ourselves 'Veterinary nurses'! This post is not to disrespect any un qual! But if i was an un qual personally i would like to have a different title and i would be proud of that also!

[/quote]

I don't think clients care either

[/quote]

and again nothing against unqualified nursing staff - that was me for over 10yrs before I qualified. Qualifying for me was important - and I just did what I had to do to get there and make it happen. I appreciate it isnt easy it wasnt for me either.

Just a thought but as it seems we cant sort this out within the profession - how about we take it to the general public and see what they think

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Nick Shackleton — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 16:55:43 GMT

[quote user="Jax"]

Yeah i understand im not that slow! And as i already mentioned i have a lot of respect for un-quals! But i am very proud of the fact i am Qualified but it hasnt always been a peice of cake for me either and i done all the jobs i do now back then also!

But its just my opinion that there should be different job titles for QVN's and unquals.

[/quote]

I have to totally agree with Jax. If I went into hospital for whatever reason I would only want fully qualified staff treating me or those undertaking some formal training under supervision of fully qualified staff!

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Jax — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 16:48:54 GMT

But its just my opinion that there should be different job titles for QVN's and unquals.

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Steph Phillips — Fri, 26 Nov 2010 08:03:40 GMT

[quote user="Jax"]

[/quote]

I'm sure on this thread (or a different one?) that question was answered my many un'quals... my reason for not qualifing? simples.. I started work in my workplace when I was 17yrs old.. It as conveinient as its just around the corner from where my mum lives.. my practice is not a training practice.. I fell pregnant with my son a year & a half after starting work.. went back to work a year later.. having kids makes working hours difficult. And like I said earlier - it's NOT a training practice.. and I'm sure your aware of how difficult getting into one can be!!! my boss recently applied for Auxillary TP - but doubt we'll get that! - I'm sure it's not just me, but I'm expected to ALL jobs a QVN does, and to be honest, I don't care what I'm called - I just enjoy my job! & I don't think clients care either - in the 11years i've been in practice, only ONE has asked if I was qualified.. my reply was No.. her responce " I trust you anyway" !

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Jax — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 22:16:09 GMT

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Clairebear — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 21:36:15 GMT

This is going to be a tough one to decide but here's my ideas (SVN level 3 diploma) -

Why not do a survey of the people who know us best? The clients.... Easier said then done I know! I like Animal Nurse for unqualified as working in a charity we call our rehoming staff 'Animal Carers'

Also what happened with colour coded uniform? I have seen practice staff from receptionist to head nurses in the same colour. Qualification = new colour uniform. Then in reception a poster stating who's who's could be explained. (I remember seeing one with the differences between student/qualified a few years back)

and...RE: HVN not being qualified - This is why we need the VS on side too, how can we be reconignised in our field when VS will pay less for a non-qualified doing what a qualified has worked bloody hard for. The reason I feel so strongly about this is because I was that person 10 years ago. I admitted to my lecturer the other day how horrified I was that I used to call myself a'Veterinary Nurse' and knowing so little back then.

Keep up the good work guys and gals!

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Tracey Louise — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 21:33:02 GMT

I dont understand the problem of us all being called veterinary nurse.

Simple, you are either a student veterinary nurse or a qualified veterinary nurse in my opinion.

In most practices, students and qualifieds do the same job anyway, even with the legalities involved and i do not think this is going to change.

I have been called a veterinary nurse since i started in the profession 6 years ago and i certainly do not have a problem with unqualified being called student veterinary nurses.

If it has to change then Nursing assistant is miles better than carer.

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Nick Shackleton — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:33:33 GMT

[quote user="maria thompson"]

How about veterinary assistant?

[/quote]

A lot of the time Veterinary Assistant is used to describe a Vet who works in a veterinary practice, but does not own the practice.

This is where the prob lies!

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Nov 2010 16:42:51 GMT

How about veterinary assistant?

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Phrin Vernon RVN — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:37:27 GMT

[quote user="Claire 'Duke' York RVN MBVNA"]

[quote user="Sepia"]

I don't come on here much, but have just sat and read all 13 pages of this! As an unqualified I felt as though I should add my thoughts too.

One major point that I don't think has been touched on much is the way in which practices use unqualifieds. I am expected to do basically everything that a qualified nurse does.. probably the only things that are not expected of me are taking blood samples (although I have done them at the request of a vet in the recent past) and put animals on a drip. I am frequently the only 'nurse' on site and I do everything else that a qualified nurse does. Our practice views all of us, qualified or not, as nurses. I simply get a fraction of the pay!

I have only been working as a 'nurse' for a year.

My point is that if you really want to see a change in the profession in this way, practices need to differentiate between qualified/experienced non-qualified/unexperienced non-qualified staff, not just in their title, but in their work.

Basically, if you don't want to call me a nurse, don't ask me to do a nurses job.

I support the idea of reserving the VN title for qualified VN's. I never refer to my self as a veterinary nurse.

[/quote]

Just because you are asked to do such things, does not mean it's right.

I appreciate your point but I do not agree with unqualified members of staff doing the job of a qualified.

Would you be happy that you were cared for by an unqualified nurse in a human hospital or that your pets were cared for by an unqualified nurse?

I'm sure you are very good at a lot of aspects of your job, but my concern is that you do not have a lot of theoretical knowledge to back up the tasks you are performing

[/quote]

I have to agree with Claire

I have LOTS of respect for unqual nurses..... BUT

After 11 years working as a very experienced nurse, with VN L2 under my belt...... I started L3 last year.... OMG - the stuff I learnt that directly impacted on my day to day nursing! The theory is important and necessary....although 18mths ago I would have argued that I was as good as a QVN due to my experience - I wasn't - no where near - the theory part makes a huge difference!

I mean no bad feelings towards experienced but unqualified nurses - I was in your position 18mths ago, and I was lucky enough to get a job with a practice who would see me through L3 .... I'm just awaiting my final exam results now............ and I have learnt soooo fooking much over the last year!

The theory stuff is important!

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Claire Cameron — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:38:46 GMT

[quote user="Sepia"]

I don't come on here much, but have just sat and read all 13 pages of this! As an unqualified I felt as though I should add my thoughts too.

I have only been working as a 'nurse' for a year.

Basically, if you don't want to call me a nurse, don't ask me to do a nurses job.

I support the idea of reserving the VN title for qualified VN's. I never refer to my self as a veterinary nurse.

[/quote]

Just because you are asked to do such things, does not mean it's right.

I appreciate your point but I do not agree with unqualified members of staff doing the job of a qualified.

Would you be happy that you were cared for by an unqualified nurse in a human hospital or that your pets were cared for by an unqualified nurse?

I'm sure you are very good at a lot of aspects of your job, but my concern is that you do not have a lot of theoretical knowledge to back up the tasks you are performing

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

kittyjo — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 20:32:39 GMT

I agree with Sepia.

I too am an unqualified nurse. And do all the jobs a qualified nurse does.

I don't resent doing them. Certainly wouldn't have wanted to have worked for the last 8 yrs just doing what an unqualfied nurse should be doing...ie, cleaning, hoovering, mopping floors, emptying bins...urgh!

Hpwever, i am in two minds about my position at work. To the point where I have asked my employers for clarification on what my job title is.

I have major respect for qualified nurses and they should defend their title as they've worked hard for it.

I have worked hard academically too.

I have 10 gcse's, 3 a levels and a HND in Animal Science and just completed the FAB Advanced feline nursing course.

It's a shame that unlike college and university courses that there isnt someway to use the qualifications I do have to go towards becoming a recognised vet nurse.

I did start the degree for the vet nursing course and because of my HND i went straight into year 2 and was able to miss out some of the 2nd yr modules.

I didnt complete it due to financial problems :-(

It's a shame that theres not an online/correspondence way that us unqualified nurses ( whatever you want to call us) can use to learn the theorical side of things we may not know and with the help of our lovely qualified nurses; Only THEY can then "tick" off when we have proven we have learnt all the things we should.

After all I feel over the 8 yrs I have been nursing, I have learnt a great deal from the qualified nurses.

They make me feel equal but I don't ever want to disrespect their position or be seen as lying to the general public by saying i'm a nurse.

I didn't like the term " carer" and wasnt overally thrilled with " auxillary"..what about nursing support?

I work in a cat only practice and was thinking "feline nursing support" was quite nice.

I would love in the future to become a qualified feline nurse. Like there are qualified equine nurses.

This thread was great btw and a real eye-opener. I never realised there was more people out there like me.

Thanks again x

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Sally Seddon — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 20:06:03 GMT

[quote user="Sepia"]

I don't come on here much, but have just sat and read all 13 pages of this! As an unqualified I felt as though I should add my thoughts too.

I have only been working as a 'nurse' for a year.

Basically, if you don't want to call me a nurse, don't ask me to do a nurses job.

I support the idea of reserving the VN title for qualified VN's. I never refer to my self as a veterinary nurse.

[/quote]

WELL SAID!!!

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Anonymous — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 22:36:42 GMT

I don't come on here much, but have just sat and read all 13 pages of this! As an unqualified I felt as though I should add my thoughts too.

I have only been working as a 'nurse' for a year.

Basically, if you don't want to call me a nurse, don't ask me to do a nurses job.

I support the idea of reserving the VN title for qualified VN's. I never refer to my self as a veterinary nurse.

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Steph Phillips — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 22:57:20 GMT

[quote user="phrin"]

returning to one aspect of the thread...

i have been in practice since 1998, and am still unqualified. i have done plenty of cpd in my time, and have £100s worth of vet nursing books on my shelves, which I have read cover to cover......

BUT I am still learning stuff at college that i didn't have a clue about before!

i do think, and after 12 years unqualified, i can see it from both sides, that the RVN has the theory that an unqual doesnt. practical skills - newly qvn has perhaps not so much, esp those nurses that whizz through training, but the theory is there. and the skills will come with practice - much as with vets.

i guess i am just trying to say, that as a long term unqualified, i am quite happy to defer to rvns on most issues, and i ask their advice even though they may have been in practice a 5th of the time i have.

i respect both long term unqual and rvn equally, but have actually worked with some shocking rvns, and some ace ones. same for unqual

i am rambling

i *think* what i am trying to say, is that being unqual does not make you a bad nurse, but imho, some essential theory is not there.

but also, being an rvn does not make you a good nurse - there is often practical skills and experience lacking.

i have met some rvns who seem to have forgotten everything they have been taught!

anyway, for me - veterinary nurse for qual, auxillary if not - simples!

[/quote]

Exactly what I said a few threads back!! 100% agree with you - glad someone else sees it from my side (unqualifieds) xx

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Phrin Vernon RVN — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 22:25:44 GMT

[quote user="STRVN"]

Enlightenment.... I would say that is what I experienced.

[/quote]

Yes!!

And what I have also learned over the years is that vets are trained to be vets - and I have worked with many good ones!

And that nurses are trained to be nurses! Are vets taught bandaging or nursing plans - nope - coz that's our job - being a vet is the vets job :)

I have learned more theoreticy (sic?) in the last 6 months than I ever have in practice! Yes some of it i know like the back of my hand- like drip rates - I can do that in my sleep! Flow rates though! I have been getting it wrong for 12 years!

Eeeeek!

Re: If 'Nurse' is protected, what is everyone else called?

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 22:17:08 GMT

I agree with your phrin, re the theoretical side.. I remember when I started my training at college... and what an eye opener that was. I agree unqualifieds totally deserve respect, and i know that a lot of practices would not be able to run without them. I think i was lucky in that I did have a good practical background knowledge, but when I attended college, well all that just came together and made much more sense. Enlightenment.... I would say that is what I experienced.