Who's responsible??

Re: Who's responsible??

hissycat — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:14:23 GMT

suppose its stops people taking their animal in for treatment and saying, 'well, its a stray'... there are plenty out there who would try that one I think... you can usually tell the genuine from the people like that though, especially if they are regular clients anyway. I think most practices just absorb the costs because as you say, wouldn't want to get a reputation for chasing money in that way.

Re: Who's responsible??

Jennie — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:36:55 GMT

[quote user="Ceri Boyd"]

First of all, not sure if this is the right place to post, sorry!

Just looking for some advice...I'm an SVN, was travelling home on Friday night when I passed a dog who had just been hit by a car. Obviously stopped & rushed to see if I could help, he didn't have any obvious injuries but was obv in shock etc. Anyway rushed him to emergency vets and phoned on Sat morning to see how he was doing (internal bruising, bleeding but made it through the night, on fluids etc). He had no collar and wasn't chipped (surprise...) and when I asked what would happen to him I was told I had fincancial responsibility. Surely this can't be right? I thought vets had to treat any animal that came through their door to a basic first aid/until they were stable. I really can't afford to pay for this wee guy but obviously wasn't going to leave him in the middle of the road to die...am I being really naive? What do your practices do in this situation?

Thanks! Ceri :)

[/quote]

from the RCVS guide to professional conduct:

A client is the person who requests veterinary attention for an animal, fo example when a veterinary surgeon is called to the scene of a road traffic accident by the police or the RSPCA, the organisation in question will be liable for any emergency treatment and for the call out even if the animal owner is subsequently identified (because the owner had no opportunity to consent for treatment). This applies equally to any member of the general public when taking in a stray or injured animal whose owner is unknown

horrible as it sounds - they were within their rights to ask you to cover the costs of the initial emergency care/pain relief.

That said, personally, I'd be inclined to turn a blind eye to anyone good enough to stop and bring a suffering animal in, after all, that's more important - Otherwise once 'word got round' who's going to bother using a practice with a reputation for putting fees above everything else?

Shame things didn't turn out better for the little guy

Re: Who's responsible??

Steph Phillips — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:07:58 GMT

[quote user="icklesal"]

[quote user="Maisy"]

Personally I think if you don't want to donate, and others followed, then you can't really complain if it then takes longer for an inspector/ACO to turn up or for calls to be acknowledged. As I stated previously they are the only charity we have in England to follow through with prosecutions etc (albeit limited, though that is because of the animal welfare laws the government enforce, not the RSPCA), as well as run a number of rescue centres and veterinary clinics/hospitals.

There is too much of an idealistic view on what charities should and should not do, and with the limited resources of either finance, manpower or legal aspects, they're never always going to be popular with people. To tar an entire organisation as being useless, many parts of which are completely separate to the main charity as their own branches, is not going to help the animals in the long run.

[/quote]

thats a good point, hadnt thought of it that way

[/quote]

True Maisy.. you raised a good point there!

Re: Who's responsible??

Sally Seddon — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:27:55 GMT

[quote user="Maisy"]

[/quote]

thats a good point, hadnt thought of it that way

Re: Who's responsible??

Shelly vn — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:27:14 GMT

I have very mixed views about the RSPCA. Generally i feel that they are a waste of time, but they did manage to redeem themselves in my eyes slightly last year.

An inspector turned up at the practice with a dachsund cross that had been taken from the owners. He had burns/scalds all down one side and on his head. They weren't new burns either and he was in a really bad way. The owners had told the RSPCA that he had been hit by a car and they had been resting him and bathing his wounds. They had kept him in a hamster cage!! There was no way these wounds were as a result of an RTA so the RSPCA took the dog. They paid for all his treatment, he was with us for 6 weeks and needed lots of sedations to clean up his wounds. They then paid for him to be vaccinated, castrated and microchipped before letting my mum rehome the dog. Initially the vet wanted to put him to sleep, but the RSCPA wanted us to try and save him. I'm very glad they did, because he is the sweetest nicest dog.

SO although the RSCPA have their faults, they do some good work and they are the best we have in terms of fighting animal cruelty.

Re: Who's responsible??

Sal the 1st — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:19:39 GMT

[quote user="Maisy"]

[/quote]

agreed

Re: Who's responsible??

Maisy — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:39:52 GMT

Re: Who's responsible??

Polly P — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:56:53 GMT

I do agree that a lot of charities employ the chuggers as well as the RSPCA... I don't give to any of them!

Same as the ones that send you circulars asking for money and enclosing a pen... If they think it's important to give every household in Britain a pen (however cheap) then my charity buck isn't going to them!

Ref. the horses in the fields, we were never told they were going to be left and the letter we had through the door never stated it even in warning... Also the 'owner' never made provision to remove them and in fact became very threatening with my parents when they contacted him as we had 'caused it' and also got him prosecuted. (Which is another thing, the RSPCA informed him it was our household who reported him and named my Mother on the writ for the court process, he should never have found out by whom he was reported for this exact reason- particularly as the RSPCA won't accept anonymous reports because of people having malicious intent...)

Also my Father took legal advice at the time and was advised (as far as I remember, I was only in my teens) that the RSPCA shooting the animals indicated that they were legally taking charge of the welfare/ ongoing care of them (as it were) so it was on them to remove them... I have likely explained or phrased that wrong as my memory was fuzzy, but the upshot was that they definately should not have been left on private land not belonging to the owner...

There's only so long you can wait for the owner/ RSPCA/ whoever is liable to do it to remove large decomposing corpses from your pastureland (that was also in view of the house from the upstairs) and after a week or so my Parents hired plant machinery at their own cost and buried them on the land.

Re: Who's responsible??

Sal the 1st — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:22:56 GMT

[quote user="Polly Player"]

We walked up to the fields they had been in (I was 14 at the time) and what we found to our horror that I cannot even begin to describe, is that all of the ponies had been shot, and had been left lying dead in the field for the whole time we had been away.

When we called the RSPCA (no words can describe that conversation) we were told that removal was down to the owner and other than prosecuting him, their part in it was finished and they didn't want to know.

He was later banned from keeping animals for ten years and fined something like £200... That is sickening, how lax the courts are/ were, but more so, the way the RSPCA acted from start to finish, was disgusting.

[/quote]

I know it is distressing but I can see where they are coming form on this one. They have done what they needed to do. If they had paid for disposal as well wouldnt have that meant that they were spending money that could have been diverted to living cases? and if they had disposed of the bodies they may then have faced problems because at the end of theday they were still the property of the owner and unlikely as it seems they still had a value.

Re: Who's responsible??

Sal the 1st — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:11:10 GMT

[quote user="Polly Player"]

I have no faith in the RSPCA at all. First of all they employ those chuggers 'charity muggers' you know the ones, they stand in the entrances of the big shopping centres and actively approach/ harass people to sign up for a monthly direct debit donation... Those guys are on £7 or more an hour, I prefer to pay my money to charities with less bells and whistles that are more pro active.

[/quote]

its not just the RSPCA employ them. Point taken that charity funds are being used to pay them but the amount they raise is far in excess of their cost. And these people take an awful lot of crap to earn that £7 an hour.

Re: Who's responsible??

Polly P — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:07:30 GMT

More importantly in my personal dealings with them, I used to feed a feral cat and he came in one day with what I thought was a broken leg. I called the RSPCA and it took several calls for them even to deign to send an inspector round, and her response basically was that the cat could be PTS in the morning, but as it was out of hours (8pm at night) I'd have to keep him for the duration (in my house, with my other cats hissing at him, no way to section them, and with him crying in great distress... And not to mention no thought of getting him checked before being put down?!) She said she wouldn;t take him as she couldn't get him to a vet until the morning and he would just be caged and crying in her van all night. I asked then why he would be put to sleep if he was 'fixable' and she said he is not rehomeable as he is mainly feral. My reply was that he could come back here if he was ok and go back to living his life, and if he wanted to move in with me then ok... To which she got her coat, walked out and said over her shoulder 'well then he's yours, call your vet and pay to treat him like you would your own cats.'

Err.... Thanks. In the end the cats protection (whom I have massive respect for) saved the day.

Also when I was in my teens, my parents rented some land to a guy with ponies, which he didn't look after at all to the point they were like the ones you see on the 'help the ILPH' adverts. It took us six months to get an inspector out to even see them, during which time we did what we could, they made two visits and declared them 'not ideal' and visited/ wrote to the owner... 'Not ideal' was a joke, they needed food and veterinary treatment urgently.

After six months while they slowly deteriorated, my Mother finally got the RSPCA inspector back out. It was a different guy and he was more than shocked when he arrived and said it would be taken care of. We then had to leave for a few days but were much happier knowing something was finaly being done...

\/ Not for the faint hearted \/

When we got back we drove past the fields and from what we could see from the road, the ponies were all gone... Excellent, we thought the RSPCA had taken them.

But when we got home, we found a letter to say that the guy was being prosecuted and the ponies (all six of them) had been put to sleep. This was very sad and we were angry it had gotten to that point, but in some ways at that stage we felt there was nothing that could have been done without masses of time and money spent on recuperation for them, so we felt it ended well.

Re: Who's responsible??

Fiona Leathers — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:42:08 GMT

Just at the start of the year, there was something in the paper that RSPCA have agreed not to take donations from wills etc, when it was obvious it was destined for the Scottish SPCA. I agree that SSPCA don't advertise here as much as they should but TV advertising is expensive & we all know the SSPCA are skint!

I did have a run in with them once when they insisted of sending us pre-paid envelopes for printer cartridges, phoned them and asked not to be sent anymore & they got a bit shirty "don't you want to help animals in distress" Yes but only Scottish ones!

Re: Who's responsible??

Ceri Boyd — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:51:42 GMT

Thanks everyone, feeling a lot better about it, at least he's not in any pain now.

As for the RSPCA...well I don't really know much about them, although I'm not sure they should be advertising in Scotland as a lot of people here donate without realising that no money goes to animals here. The SSPCA doesn't advertise half as much and they seem to lose out on a lot of donations due to people being misinformed...

Re: Who's responsible??

hissycat — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:32:42 GMT

It would be great if people knew how unhelpful RSPCA can be, so they could donate there money elsewhere!

I do think there are problems in the organisation, they are certainly inconsistent, but maybe the problem is they just don't have enough money? i'm sure no one would choose to put animals to sleep if they had the choice, but they only have so much space and resources at their disposal. Also they do a good job in bringing animal cruelty cases to court and publicising the results of these, acting as deterrent. who else would do this if the RSPCA did not exist? I have heard clients having a real rant at the RSPCA because they wouldn't, for example, come and collect a lame pigeon or something similar.. to deal with all these things they would have to have an inspector on every street corner.. i am not saying they could not improve just that maybe they are doing their best with what they've got..

Re: Who's responsible??

Sally Seddon — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:11:16 GMT

[quote user="Vicky SVN"]

[quote user="icklesal"]

My grandma died last week and after going through her financial stuff we noticed that she donated £13 (!!) per month to the rspca. Im so annoyed that i didnt know she did this because i would of made her stop the donations to them

[/quote]

Sorry to hear about your grandma It would be great if people knew how unhelpful RSPCA can be, so they could donate there money elsewhere!

[/quote]

thanks vicky

Re: Who's responsible??

Sal the 1st — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:23:37 GMT

sorry how this turned out maybe the apparent delay in treatment was because he wasnt in a good condition for an anaesthetic /sedation for xrays.At the end of the day you did the best you could by him - you have nothing to feel guilty for at all (sorry there isnt a suitable smilie)

not making excuses for anybody and certainly not making excuses for the RSPCA as they have dumped on me so many times over the years i have lost count, but sometimes they do a good job - just sometimes not in the case of single animals. They are always in there with the high profile , high number rescues ie the horses that will be appearing in their ads for years to come but then they have the resources to do this - and a publicity dept to make sure it is publicised. I feel their strength is in publicising the effects of cruelty and raising public awareness of what is going on out there.

Having worked for a number of charities - yes it is true that most of them benefit well from donations from the elderly either through one off donations, monthly donations or the one that makes the real money THE LEGACY. As a fundraiser if you can land a good legacy you are well in the good books. Advertising is mostly done during daytime tv - maybe because it is cheaper? but also because that is the time your target donator will be watching, likewise some of the magazine and newspaper ads - and this is not restricted to RSPCA, almost all of the major charities work this way. There are so many charities chasing donations sadly its sometimes only the big high profile ones that get a look in.

Many of the larger charities have lost a great deal of money through investment (espec if they banked in Iceland and others) and yes some of them are feeling the pinch.

PS - dog wardens are funded through your council tax - if your council is providing a poor service with the dog wardens make sure they know

Re: Who's responsible??

Maisy — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:19:36 GMT

No charity is perfect although there are faults with the RSPCA, as with any, they are still the only one that is able to so something about the overall state of animal welfare in this country. If another charity took over this role I'm sure they'd have the same problems and complaints that the RSPCA do. I wouldn't begrudge anyone paying to support them though if you don't want to support the main charity, why not support local branches instead?

Re: Who's responsible??

Selena Carnell — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:13:11 GMT

All the donations go to the fat cats that run the RSPCA, i bet less than half a £13 donation would go to towards the animals.

Imagine how much they are paying for their TV campains, and adverts.

CPL hardly advertise and are really helpful and take on loads of cases.

Re: Who's responsible??

Vicky RVN — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:39:58 GMT

[quote user="Ceri Boyd"]

Thanks for all your replies & views on the matter though! I feel like I did the right thing but still feeling guilty :(

[/quote]

Sorry to hear the outcome. Please don't feel guilty though, you did best by him and had nothing to do with what treatment they did/didn't do for him, so it's not your fault x

Re: Who's responsible??

Vicky RVN — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:38:23 GMT

[quote user="icklesal"]

[/quote]

Sorry to hear about your grandma It would be great if people knew how unhelpful RSPCA can be, so they could donate there money elsewhere!

Re: Who's responsible??

Sally Seddon — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:22:19 GMT

You shouldnt feel guilty! You did the best thing for him and its an awful situation for you to of been in ((hugs to you))

Re: Who's responsible??

Ceri Boyd — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:09:49 GMT

Update.... well the wee guy was pts today :( I'm absolutely gutted and so angry as he had been in the vets care from Friday night and he was just radiographed today - turns out he had a fractured pelvis, dislocated right hind & pneumothorax which would have needed surgery. As there was no-one to pay for treatment he was put to sleep. I feel angry as why did it take so long for them to realise what was wrong? Also feel incredibly guilty as he was obv in a lot of pain and although I offered to pay for some treatment I couldn't afford to pay for an op. Also, no owners were found and no-one came forward to claim him so he was either a stray or the owners couldn't be bothered/didn't want to pay. Just a sad situation :(

Thanks for all your replies & views on the matter though! I feel like I did the right thing but still feeling guilty :(

Re: Who's responsible??

Sally Seddon — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:51:40 GMT

The rspca do nothing but drive me crazy!

They tell people to bring any injured/stray/need rehoming animals to us because the local inspector is out of the area. of course we are not going to refuse to treat injured animals but still sometimes have to call for a log number. oh and the inspector regularly turns up and expects to be seen without calling first, even if its only for flea treatment! Really annoys me!

Re: Who's responsible??

Dawn Seabrook — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:15:16 GMT

We have had major issues with this type of situation there is an RSPCA clinic about 25miles from us but it doesnt have any radiography facilities and is not open OOH we get loads of people ringing us V frustrated because they can't get the care they need. Also some of our local private vets have tried the "as the finder you are financially responisble for the animal" but you could take it down the road to the pdsa, this drives me made as it means we end up having to swallow the cost of treatment as as a charity even if an owner is found we can only ask for a contribution towards treatment. On the other Hand our local dog warden is Brill, even if it is injured as long as it is stable and safe to travel she will come and get if from us and take it to the vet she uses.

Re: Who's responsible??

Nikki Graef — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:34:11 GMT

[quote user="Claire BearRVN"]

Until very recently I've been able to obtain log numbers for emergency tx for dogs. Getting hold of the RSPCA to do so however was another matter but as a general rule they never quibbled the log number.

[/quote]

They always told me that dogs were the councils responsibility and we had to get the money off the dog warden! Our local dog warden did a similar thing to the RSPCA with log numbers so we could claim back £60 or so for emergency treatment but the RSPCA never wanted to know