5 cats too many???

Re: 5 cats too many???

Polly P — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:06:27 GMT

I'm not totally convinced on theeffectiveness of the selective entry cat flaps like the collar activated one and the pet porte-

I live in a basement flat with my cats and the upstairs neighbours also have cats.

We have seperate front entrances but at the back (where the cats go out) we share a lobby, so we initially both had cat flaps on our internal back doors, and then a shared cat flap between me and upstairs on the external back door for all of our cats (six in total) to get outside.

We fortunately never had any problems with fighting in the lobby, as we thought we might, as we both have one very dominant cat (In fact when I moved in, lady upstairs took pains to warn me that her cat might bully mine if they crossed in the lobby, and we'd have to keep an eye on it, and I was equally sure that my boss cat would be the one terrorising... Turns out I was right.)

But what we did have issue with is two of my cats deciding they wanted to go into upstairs, via their internal cat door. One of them was just a pain in that she was on the other cats territory, but the other (my boss cat, Matilda) was chasing their cats and growling at them in their own house.

First point of resolution for this was that they put a collar activated cat flap on their internal door.

First issues that came up- it took ages to convince their cats to use it!

Firstly it makes a fairly loud click when the collar comes in range, which startled the cats and they would not go through it.

Then when they started to get used to this, they'd hear the click, wait to make sure nothing was going to 'get them' and then go to push the door, by which time they had been waiting too long and the door re locked!

Eventually they overcame this and it was fine, until after a month (not very long in my opinion) the battery in one of their cat's collars died and the cat could not get through the cat flap until someone realised this and sorted it out, by which time she had decided the cat flap was a dud and had to go through learning how to use it all over again!

Next up was that it totally failed to deal with the issue of my insistant cat getting in.

If their cat went through it when she was there, she'd simply follow it in and we were back to the beginning!

It even came to be that one day one of their cats was sitting on the inside of the door near the flap and her collar activated it and mine got in.

Also one day Matilda chased her cat into the house from the garden, and her cat went at the cat flap so fast it didn't activate in time, so she hit it, could not get in, and then had a scrap with mine while fighting to get in...

The final nail in the coffin was when mine got sick of waiting to creep up on one of hers and just barreled right through the cat flap and with enough force it opened... Once she sussed that out, she could get in ever after by just hurling herself at it. Not only a problem from the point of view that it doesn't keep unwanted cats from getting in, but if you are trying to keep your cats in for any reason, the cat flap locked against their collars may not be effective and you could have an awol feline without even realising until it's too late.

In the end, we paneled over my internal door cat flap and put a flap in my bedroom window (this is double glazed, but my upstairs neighbour is a glazer by trade so was not an issue... I think it can be expensive to have done as you have to get a pro, but yes iyt certainly can be done) So the only way my cats can go out now is via their own flap, but of course, Matilda can still get into their house by going out through my window and in through the back door! Though she has stopped doing this about 90% of the time unless she is directly following one of their cats in from the garden.

All of these were issues with the collar key cat flap, but I would think a lot of the same issues may well be inherant in the pet porte (but that does of course depend on you having a cat that is both intelligent and intent on hellraising like mine!) so I would check it out more before shelling out over £100 on it...

I am incredibly fortunate that my upstairs neighbours are cat people and have worked with me on this rather than getting the hump, it's incredibly embarrasing to keep answering the door to them holding my growling cat and being treated to another tale of 'what Matilda's done now...'

Re: 5 cats too many???

Vicky Dalton-Placzek — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:44:49 GMT

Thanks for all your replies on this subject its really helping.

Despite the fact that there are 5 of them I do believe other cats come into the house via our catflap and cause chaos, which gets me up at 3am! So I will def look into the microchip flap as they're all done. Does anyone know if they fit into double glazed doors? Think we had to get the company who fitted the doors/windows to come out and replace the flap when the cats broke it. I'll look on the sites given thanks for those.

As for feeding, I guess now its been mentioned they dont settle to eat, when its given they wolf it down and a few are quite jumpy when humans are in the kitchen opening freezers/ovens etc so I'll try maybe feeding in stages and keep the others away until the one/two eating can finish in their own time.

I'll keep on trying, thanks you all!

Vicky x

Re: 5 cats too many???

Sarah Nicholas — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:09:47 GMT

I had a similar problem, I have 4 cats. Dizzy was first and handled it well when I got Archie and Fletcher as kittens. When I introduced Crookie, an elderly stray things went a bit wrong!! Urinating in random areas, little spats between them all etc...

I used the same rule about litter trays (one each plus one) and other resources. I also use zylkene and feliway. The 3 younger cats were not bothered but poor Crookie had trouble (and still does). I also can't bear to part with any of them (which I admit may be rather selfish) so I am persevering for now.

He seems better on the zylkene and they do have space to move around etc... So I opted to give it time. I do fear I will have to rehome one or two of my lads but keeping fingers crossed!!!

sorry not much help but I really feel for you as I am having same troubles.

Re: 5 cats too many???

Claire Cameron — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:33:42 GMT

[quote user="frog and cat mad!"]

[quote user="Claire BearRVN"]

I have just seen this thread. I was going to reply but frog and cat mad seems to have taken the words out of my mouth

[/quote]

I'm sure that doesnt happen often claire

[/quote]

haha

Re: 5 cats too many???

Fiona Leathers — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:32:25 GMT

http://www.sureflap.co.uk/

http://www.petporte.com/

Sure Flap is definitely more compact and runs off a battery.

Re: 5 cats too many???

Anonymous — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:11:33 GMT

Sometimes it can also help with establishing outside boundaries by sprinkling the used litter from their boxes round the perimeter of your property. Helps strangers know who's territory it is and also creates a natural comfort zone for the cats who's litter it is! Def get a microchip flap as many cats have magnets or sometimes their collars have ident tags that can also trigger the magnet. I think the Pet Porte has had some bad reviews though, there's another one called Sure Flap not sure how it's different though.

Re: 5 cats too many???

Steph Worsley — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:57:50 GMT

[quote user="Claire BearRVN"]

I have just seen this thread. I was going to reply but frog and cat mad seems to have taken the words out of my mouth

[/quote]

I'm sure that doesnt happen often claire

Re: 5 cats too many???

LoveCat — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:59:19 GMT

Deffo a new cat in the neighbourhood can be a problem - my black and white one will make a point of rushing out and confronting any new intruders he may spot out of the window. Just make sure they are not coming in the house - I have a sure flap microchip cat flap and it works great - if you have any q's just message me.

xxx

Re: 5 cats too many???

Claire Cameron — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:55:34 GMT

I have just seen this thread. I was going to reply but frog and cat mad seems to have taken the words out of my mouth

Re: 5 cats too many???

Steph Worsley — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:54:03 GMT

Hey Vicky

It does sound like this new intruder has possibly been a catalyst to set things off.

I would def try with more feliway, can the neighbouring cats come in the house? if so i would look at ways of stopping this (magnetic catflap/pet porte)

when they are feeding do the all settle down or are they always on edge, ie crouched but bum not on the floor as this is a sign that they are not happy eating in the same close proximity.

I'd be happy to try and help more, I know exactly how you feel as my cats are my life too! PM me if you want!!!

Re: 5 cats too many???

Vicky Dalton-Placzek — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:04:47 GMT

Hi Guys,

As you've already noted some things I didnt want to hear! As for the resources they have a hundred foot garden with trees, sheds, grass mud to play in, they have access 24/7 to the house where they stay in the kitchen, front and back room (Louis my boy gets time out upstairs when he asks for it).

The funny thing is they do all eat together in the kitchen at their own places and bowls, drink from the same water bowl and when we have put trays down (which was with the snow as my mum doesnt like the idea of having a tray unfortunatley) they all went in the same one!

I think recently the trouble is we've had new cats introduced to the neighbourhood, we have 2 next door which they have lived alongside with and the younger 2 even play with them, a big male cat 3 doors down and now a B+W male cat from nowhere.

I don't know last night was rubbish cos I came home from a weekend away to find my boy with a scabby paw, cut so very near his eye and a rip at the tip of his ear. The first time I've seen obvious signs of fighting and I know its not been with my other mogs so must be a neighbours.

I may try with feliway again in a few more places, they have 4 main beds to sleep on and plenty of places up high to sit and they're all happy and calm when they're in they're beds. So I shall place a few around them.

Thanks for all your messages and anymore will be great. I know I'm being selfish but apart from work/boyfriend they're my reason for living.

Vicky

Re: 5 cats too many???

Vicky RVN — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:35:49 GMT

[quote user="Polly Player"]always get the two mixed up in my head.[/quote]

Just cheat and say neuter rather than spay/castrate lol

Re: 5 cats too many???

Polly P — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:16:09 GMT

dont want to be pedantic here but the neutering procedure for a tom cat is a castrate not a spay/spey

Lol! No thats fine, I always, always get the two mixed up in my head. Ps, don't worry I don't have a job/ training place!

Re: 5 cats too many???

loopylou711 — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:54:25 GMT

Well I have 3 cats (well ones a kitten). I have only had Poppy 6 months and she slots in just fine when the other 2 let her. But the other 2 Luka and Niamh are best friends and like there private hugs and sleeping together and poppy is sort of left looking in but thats what mummys r for! But I think its Niamh who is more reluctant to have Poppy sleeping with her, as Luka and Poppy are togeher quite a bit.

Cats are funny and sensitive souls where the slightest thing upsets them! Luka is my resident grumpy cat!

Although it's hard giving one of them away may be in everyones best interest! Failing that lots and lots of things to go!! My lot always seem to find things to mainly recking through all my stuff under the table grr!!!

Good Luck!

Re: 5 cats too many???

Mrs Dot Dot — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:17:14 GMT

You're being pedantic Sal

Re: 5 cats too many???

Sal the 1st — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:11:46 GMT

dont want to be pedantic here but the neutering procedure for a tom cat is a castrate not a spay/spey

Re: 5 cats too many???

LoveCat — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:55:10 GMT

Hi Vicky - I am so sorry to hear that you are having problems with your cats it must be very stressful and upsetting for you. I currently have three cats and they all rub along just fine together although the oldest (he will be 7 this year) is the most sensitive to change in the household and I always have to take his feeings into account.

The general rule for a multicat household is 'one per cat plus one' - for every resource i.e. food bowls, water bowls, litter trays, sleeping areas, scratching poles etc. Now in your case this might be pretty hard to acheive as it means you would need six of everything! but the general idea (as has been mentioned previously) is that all these resources are in different places so that if all the cats wanted to eat at once, for example, they would all be able to get to a food bowl without another cat bullying them out of it.

I have a feliway plug-in in use at all times (what feliway product did you use and did you have it installed for long enough?) and when it is not in place I deffo notice a difference in my oldest cat - he gets grumpier with everyone!

I also make sure I utilise all avaliable surfaces so that they can have high vantage points and lots of options for sleeping - e.g. I have cushions on all of my window sills and they LOVE to sit and look out, my oldest cat loves his cushion on top of the bookcase (dedicating a shelf within a bookcase is also a good option as they can tuck themselves away). Do your cats have outside access too? As I can't imagine my oldest cat being half as tolerant if he did not have his outside territory to patrol aswell.

I hope everyone's advice on here has given you some ideas you can try I understand how hard it must be to contemplate rehoming one of your babies Good luck with them xx

Re: 5 cats too many???

Vicky RVN — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:52:50 GMT

[quote user="Polly Player"]I have a total of 11 cat beds all over the house, and yet when I go to bed, all four of them are in my bed!!![/quote]

Why sleep where they are supposed to when they can use your bed and give you an inch (2 if you're lucky) at the edge to sleep on! That's Jacks motto anyway

Re: 5 cats too many???

Polly P — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:38:49 GMT

Oh, and ps, when I had 8 I was in a one bedroom house! And now with 4/ 5 I am in a one bedroom flat, but both places they could all go outside when they wanted and it is a good cat area, and there's never been problems thrown up from now having enough indoor space.

I don't have litter trays so they all do the business outside, which may help... I have a total of 11 cat beds all over the house, and yet when I go to bed, all four of them are in my bed!!!

Re: 5 cats too many???

Polly P — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:35:27 GMT

I have gotten up to eight before, and all was fine but one (siamese, she hated it and as she was my parents originally, she went back to my parents... She'd bully the smaller ones and pissed all over the house, including once spraying me!) the others were all fine I think because they either came in when young, or like two that started off feral and I was feeding them, then they moved in, the choice had been theirs, as it were, and happened over time at their pace, plus they had always been used to being around loads of cats as there was a big feral population.

I now have four (the simese went back to my parents, one cat moved in with a lady a few doors up and seemed happy as the only cat and the lady was happy to keep her one is no longer with us, and one was feral and stayed in my old house with the new people when I moved, to the agreement of all of them!)

Of the four they are all happy, all get on well and I never feel like I don't have time/ resources for all of them... In fact next door have a cat (oh dear, here I go, soap box....) He's an 8 month old unspeyed tom that the woman got at 3 weeks old!! for the oldest child- who is six- and the woman doesn't even like cats- she won't pick him up or do anything really other than put food down for him, so the only handling he had was from a 6 year old... and he's a good size but I am still unconvinced that they're feeding him correctly- also they won't have a cat flap put in, so he gets left out all night if he happens to be out, and we have loads of wild foxes round here... So basically he has started coming into mine, and other than one of mine growling at him, there's been no fighting or anything, just a lot of cat- ignoring behaviour... So it looks like I might be 'aquiring' my fifth at the moment, particularly as she is talking of 'getting rid of him' and hsows no signs of getting him speyed...

So yes, that was the long version of 'I have always had a lot of cats and it's worked out for me.'

But also it depends very much on the cats too, as well as the person! I don't find myself feeling overwhelmed with them, but if I did, the best thing would be to rehome some, like the siamese originally.

I never actually 'chose' my cats (ok apart from an unfortunate incident where I went into a pet shop for fish food and came out with a kitten and without the electric bill money... No I am not proud! Especially as I have always had a bee in my bonnet about pet shops having kittens/ puppies in them) they all kind of found me, and I think that meant that if they chose to stay they were happy with the living situation and ergo it was not stressful, but I can see how it could have been, particularly when I had an unhappy siamese piddling all over the house, spraying etc, and obvoiusly not in her element.

Re: 5 cats too many???

Steph Worsley — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:32:41 GMT

ok....gonna ditto the above comment...do they have plenty of resources? plenty of areas to sleep/eat/drink/toilet? can you look at the five of them and see which interacts best....for example I had 4 cats at one point but (like sal said) it was more like 2 + 1+ 1 when i went to 3 i had 2 + 1 and now i have only the 2 it has dropped down to 1+1 (these 2 are brother and sister and will share same resources but dont often mutual groom or sleep curled up)

is it a large house, do they have access to outside?

I had to bite the bullet with one I had once and put him up forrehoming as it was unfair on the whole cat household.

if you are saying that there is conflict there and feliway is not helping then look at the resources :plenty of trays,( some covered some not, and not all in a line or in the same room even) different feeding stations, again in different rooms and different heights, different drinking areas and different sleeping areas again differnet heights and loads of them around.

It may be that you will have to look at rehoming one or maybe more of them for the cats welfare I know its not what you want to hear but it may be best in the long run

Re: 5 cats too many???

Doolally — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:03:32 GMT

Do they have enough resources? so they can all eat/pee/sleep without seeing another cat should they all decide to do the same thing at once?

Good luck with them, it must be a nightmare, I can't imagine how hard it must be, i've got 2 but they're inseparable which definitely makes my life easy!!

Re: 5 cats too many???

Sal the 1st — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:37:20 GMT

I have had 4 cats before - was more like a 2 + 2 and it was a very large house with access to the outside. The 2 younger cats pretty much stayed together as they had always been together but the two older ones pretty much kept themselves to themselves. I didnt have too many problems but the cats did have plenty of room to be by themselves if they wanted. It did mean having a litter tray in my bedroom for one of them which wasnt exactly ideal - and it isnt the first or last time I have had to do this but wouldnt rec as a long term solution

I know its hard to think about it but they dont always want the same things we do and if they arent happy together as upsetting as it might be for you it might be happier for a cat who wants to be an 'only' cat if it can have a home where it gets this chance.

sorry if this isnt what you wanted to hear - but wish you well