Maths!!! :o(

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Stella Skelton RVN — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:35:19 GMT

yeah - this is then book i've got. maybe i'll just have to read it again. thanks. x

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Claire Cameron — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:34:12 GMT

Have you read the calculations book for VNs? It's really handy, you might find it useful? I know I did and I HATE maths with a passion

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Calculations-Veterinary-Nurses-Margaret-Moore/dp/0632054980/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1260891233&sr=8-2-fkmr0

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Saskia Quinn — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:18:21 GMT

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

and I suppose if you combine an ice pack and Saskias hip flask then everybody is happy!

[/quote]

haha You said it Sal

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Sal the 1st — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:46:20 GMT

you got me there

just be thankful you are not a woman of a certain age!

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Nick Shackleton — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:43:56 GMT

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

was serious about the ice pack - ask Caro

[/quote]

Yeah but prob used for an alternative to prep-H

[/quote]

cheeky!

[/quote]

Or hot flushes

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Sal the 1st — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:42:19 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

was serious about the ice pack - ask Caro

[/quote]

Yeah but prob used for an alternative to prep-H

[/quote]

cheeky!

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Sal the 1st — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:41:21 GMT

and I suppose if you combine an ice pack and Saskias hip flask then everybody is happy!

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Nick Shackleton — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:40:51 GMT

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

was serious about the ice pack - ask Caro

[/quote]

Yeah but prob used for an alternative to prep-H

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Sal the 1st — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:39:29 GMT

was serious about the ice pack - ask Caro

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Stella Skelton RVN — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:28:57 GMT

ha ha ha...these suggestions are so funny!!

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Sal the 1st — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:19:58 GMT

prefer the bum bag (or fanny pack as my American friend calls them - which caused a few funny looks at the time) as you can stick an ice pack in there to stop you overheating in the summer - giving all my secrets away now

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Saskia Quinn — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:19:45 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

yes I used to have that problem with scrub pockets! - try a bum bag or alternatively stick another pocket on.

[/quote]

One of our interns has a wee over should bag with everything but the kitchen sink in it!

[/quote]

i think thats a fab idea! Could keep many things in there - scissors, nail clippers, thermometer, stitch removers, the list is endless phone, fags, hip flask, make-up.......

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Nick Shackleton — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:02:58 GMT

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

yes I used to have that problem with scrub pockets! - try a bum bag or alternatively stick another pocket on.

[/quote]

One of our interns has a wee over should bag with everything but the kitchen sink in it!

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Sal the 1st — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:40:03 GMT

yes I used to have that problem with scrub pockets! - try a bum bag or alternatively stick another pocket on.

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Stella Skelton RVN — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:22:39 GMT

That's the book i have.

Thank you all SO much for being so helpful. It's exactly what i need. I did get my assessor to write some calculations out for me today. She'll check them tomorrow. I'm going to try all of your calculations and see which i prefer - i.e.: which makes more sense in my stoopid head!! :o)

The calculator idea is great! I think i'll try that - even if my one scrub pocket is already full!!!

Thanks everybody!!! You're all awesome!!! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 07:59:37 GMT

also I haven't got it yet but another vet nurse recommended this to me http://www.amazon.co.uk/Calculations-Veterinary-Nurses-Margaret-Moore/dp/0632054980

apparently it's really good. :)

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Anonymous — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 07:56:46 GMT

I think WHSmith stock a little pocket calculator with a flip top cover on it. I used a label maker and put all my calculations on the flap and keep it in my pocket! the more you do them the better, when you start typing out the numbers it will start to click more. I find it helps the most because it's more visual for me. :) mine looks like this... http://www.buy-stationery.co.uk/apps/Shop.dll?R=KINCO32586&X=GPBS

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:57:47 GMT

I do mine slightly different

I divide the ml by the mg

ie 1ml divided by mg

I will do it with Freckles calculation,

125mg/ml divide 1ml by 125= 0.008 then times it by the mg you need... in this case 200=1.6ml

75mg/ml divide 1ml by 75 =0.01333 then times by mg again lets say its 200 = 2.6ml

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Freckle — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:22:14 GMT

also, after calculating, remember to check if it looks *roughly right*

for the example above, i needed 200mg, and the solution was 125mg/ml, so *roughly* i needed a ml and a fair bit - therefore 1.6mls looks roughly right - i would always check with a vet of course

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Freckle — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:08:36 GMT

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

yes it does make it a lot easier for some people and you have probably explained it better than I did.

[/quote]

the reason i do it like that is coz it works no matter what inconvenient doses your are saddled with!

if the dog is 23.5kg and the drug is 8.5mg per kg

23.5mg x 8.5mg/kg gives you the amount of drug you need

= 199.75mg (bad example, but in most (not all) cases you can round up to 200mg)

say the drug is a solution of 125mg/1ml

remember - what you NEED divided by what you HAVE;

so 200mg divided by 125mg/ml = 1.6mls

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Sal the 1st — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:58:35 GMT

yes it does make it a lot easier for some people and you have probably explained it better than I did.

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Freckle — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:52:48 GMT

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

I used this with trainees in the past and it helped a lot - if the formulas are making life hell for you at the moment put them to one side for now and try something different. its a longer way round of doing things in some ways but if it gets you into the habit and is something you find easier to work with try it this way for now. write down each step as you do it it will be easier

easy one to show you what I mean - an animal needs 5mg / kg of a drug and weighs 5kg - drug is available as 100mg/ml injection

so - 5(kg) x 5(mg) = 25 (animal needs 25mg of drug)

1ml of the drug = 100mg OR 1ml contains 4 times as much as animal needs

1/2ml of drug = 50mg so 1ml divided by 4 = 1/4 ml (0.25)ml

1/4 ml of drug = 25mg

animal needs 25mg of drug and 1/4ml of the injectable contains 25mg

so answer would be 1/4 ml

hope this is the sort of thing you mean ? and hope this makes sense - its a lot easier to explain when the person is with you

and once you get confident with this its generally easier to understand the formulas

[/quote]

the way i do it is like this;

patient weighs 5kg,drug dose is 10mg/kg

therefore the amount needed is 5kg x 10 mg/kg

= 50mg

so your injection solution is 100mg /ml

and the calculation is the 50mg you need, divided by the 100mg/ml solution

50/100 = 0.5ml

i struggled with it too for ages, but one day it just 'clicked' :)

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Sal the 1st — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:35:08 GMT

easy one to show you what I mean - an animal needs 5mg / kg of a drug and weighs 5kg - drug is available as 100mg/ml injection

so - 5(kg) x 5(mg) = 25 (animal needs 25mg of drug)

1ml of the drug = 100mg OR 1ml contains 4 times as much as animal needs

1/2ml of drug = 50mg so 1ml divided by 4 = 1/4 ml (0.25)ml

1/4 ml of drug = 25mg

animal needs 25mg of drug and 1/4ml of the injectable contains 25mg

so answer would be 1/4 ml

hope this is the sort of thing you mean ? and hope this makes sense - its a lot easier to explain when the person is with you

and once you get confident with this its generally easier to understand the formulas

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Maisy — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:23:19 GMT

Maths was a real bugbear for me too and it was only through nursing that it started to sink in! Like others have mentioned I found it easier to get people to write calculations down and I did the same for my trainees to help them too.

When the vet asks you to draw up xmls of a drug, take a moment afterwards to work the calculation out yourself so you're having to think about it. The calculations book is helpful but don't get bogged down with it for now, and just practice the basics before going back in to try with the sample questions. Keep a note in your pocket, or laminated somewhere in the practice with all the calculations you may come across to help you remember.

It really is just practising though (a lot!) as this is an area many student VNs have trouble with, yet during training the subject becomes a lot clearer-and this is from someone who did extremely bad in GCSE maths!!

Re: Maths!!! :o(

Nick Shackleton — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:08:27 GMT

I used to find it really hard to grasp calculations! I think the best thing to do is try using them every day and then you'll find it easy to remember them.....