Advice...?

Re: Advice...?

Stella Skelton RVN — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:42:16 GMT

I agree with Fi. Just ignore this now. He can't do anything. He's throwing a tantrum. Leave it alone and move on. Simply ignoring him and not rising to him will piss him off royally by the sounds of it. Just have a giggle to yourself at his massive immaturity and through process!! xx

Re: Advice...?

Sal the 1st — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 00:17:45 GMT

- most definitely a different species

Re: Advice...?

Mrs Dot Dot — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:43:32 GMT

Just remember, you are a bigger, better person than him so don't rise to him.

Another thing to remember (that has kept me in good stead a few times) is that vets are a different species so behave in a different way to others! Only they know their reasons for doing things................................

Re: Advice...?

Sal the 1st — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:27:51 GMT

and guess why the 'matter is closed' - because he knows that there is sod all he can do about it, as I said before bruised ego. very quick to point out wrongs but not to point out that he was in the wrong by not giving you a contract in the first instance?

could it be the bit that has really pissed him off is that another vs has presented him with this and that the other vs is really gloating that your ex boss cannot keep his staff? - so isnt such a great friend of his anyway?

By not replying you can show that you can conduct yourself in a better manner than he can

Re: Advice...?

Jo Mackenzie — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:11:04 GMT

Yep, that pretty much sums him up, any guesses as to why I left in the first place? I really don't want to let him get the last word but at the same time I don't want to sink to his level and get involved in a petty battle of words, which it will end up as cause he won't be able to let it go. Aaaaaaaah!

Re: Advice...?

littlehays — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:26:49 GMT

he 'empowered' you to write it did he?! jesus christ, it's a wonder he ever gets through a doorway with a head like that...what an absolute w*****!!

Re: Advice...?

Caro Laithwaite VN — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:12:57 GMT

aww diddums l agree with Fi.Oh and copyright infringment is a criminal offence not a civil so if he is as he appears to be trying to claim copyright he is breaking criminal law.. Mr bigg foot is legally in the wrong so he can go boil his head . If he tries to take it further tell him to contact his lawyer and you will accept his cheque for compensation. Your copyright end of story.

Re: Advice...?

Saskia Quinn — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:53:46 GMT

Jo I would just ignore him! Obviously he doesnt have anything important to do with his time and he could keep on playing tit for tat - he also sounds like a immature little person who is intent on having the last word!

Take the moral high ground and completely ignore him. You have explained yourself and your reasons.

Re: Advice...?

Fiona Leathers — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:24:21 GMT

He considers the matter closed, so ignore him! He's stomping his feet like a spoilt brat and I wouldn't waste my time or energy on him!!

Re: Advice...?

Jo Mackenzie — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:22:12 GMT

OK, just replied to my old boss's email stating that the work was mine, no sensitive information, had every right to show off my abilities etc etc and he has replied with this:

"The detail is irrelevant ,you are wrong in principle. And presenting this material was inappropriate. It was with me that you were empowered to write this material for my classes, and therefore you do not present this to a neighbouring practice, while under my employment.

If a nurse from a neighbouring practice came to me for an interview and presented me with this information, knowing that it had been used around the corner I would not be impressed by the tactic.

I consider the matter closed."

Where do I go from here? He's really p****d me off, maybe I shouldn't have given the stuff to the other guy but I think he's being a bit petty here...

Re: Advice...?

littlehays — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:52:46 GMT

tell him to go do one, he doesn't own you and you don't owe him anything!!

Re: Advice...?

Vicky RVN — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:41:03 GMT

It does sound like he's got a bruised ego to me as well! Silly man!

Re: Advice...?

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:16:50 GMT

Well you could mention it but l wouldn't labour the point. You can point out that you own the copyright despite what your old boss may think. But careful about rocking the boat if you are happy and they are friends. I would play it by ear it may be best to just let sleeping dogs lie and not say a thing unless it comes up even then keep it light, unless circumstances mean you need to fire both barrels of a shotgun.

Re: Advice...?

Jo Mackenzie — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:56:16 GMT

Also should I take it up with the vet who interviewed me that he told my old boss about the interview and the puppy information when it was given to him in confidence? Or does the fact that I no longer work for my old boss mean that the interview vet can tell him whatever he likes?

P.S. Thanks for all the advice so far guys, you've been really helpful!

Re: Advice...?

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:55:24 GMT

With our video productions we hold the originals. When we produce any items we state we hold copyright and at most only authorise the right to produce copies of certain tapes/dvd's. This means if our work was then used in copies or any other context other than what we produced we would have the law on our side to smack with, as l say only done that once though, and it brought an evil joy to me as the guy was a pratt.

Re: Advice...?

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:45:29 GMT

You hold it under copyright law. You never signed it over. Camera operators and journalists that work for organisations sign a contract that says all work produce they belongs to the company if they did not then they would own copyright.

The law is horrendously complex and has just changed this last 2 years where if you break the law in one country you can be sued under the laws of the country you broke it in.

The only parts you would not have ownership for is those you possibly borrowed from other places ie say a book which strictly speaking and by law you should have got permission from but people do not bother unless you were going to mass produce or sell it.But you should put down a thank you to....at the end

Even if you gave your old boss verbal or written permission to use the work it is the word "use" You still own it unless you have signed the rights away which no one would have thought of doing on such an item.

There is no dispute that you produced it. Some of the ways people do practice safe copyright intellectual is a bit grey but they will print off a disc and or paper copy. Place it in a sealed envelope and send it registered post to themselves, it stays sealed in a safe place. Any dispute they can produce the sealed item. Sort of a poor persons method. Like l say it is grey and there is a question mark if it would stand in a court of law but it would depend what was going on. For instance a book with a huge mess of court law probably wouldn't but a small poem then probably would.

We keep all copyright to our work, we have the original tapes have had someone try and use it once. They got all bolshy as l held onto their tape so they said they would sue me, make the amount l named look like peanuts. I shrugged and said fine ok. About 10 days later we got a letter of apology from the lawyer and a cheque for the item used to the amount l had specified.

If anyone wanted specific copyright law then bvna can possibly help in a general context but a very specific content would need a copyright lawyer. I doubt bvna legal folks are even aware of the major change that has occurred under international law which a lot of countries have signed up to.

Re: Advice...?

Jo Mackenzie — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:25:15 GMT

Thanks everyone, none of the information was "sensitive" i.e. regarding prices etc, just basic puppy care and training. It was not on headed paper although there was a cover sheet to each booklet with the practice name, address and contact details.

I think you're right about the bruised ego - I think part of the problem is he couldn't get anyone to take over the classes and now he thinks I'm stealing his business as my new practice is only a couple of miles away.

Will definitely get in touch with the BVNA and see what they say.

Re: Advice...?

Anonymous — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:03:28 GMT

you can also copyright by putting a name, date, address and then posting it to yourself. It certifies it apparently for most documents.

Re: Advice...?

Sal the 1st — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:50:49 GMT

it can be as easy as just sticking 'your name and copyright and date' underneath whatever you have written. so long as the work is original and nobody else has already copywrite there shouldnt be a problem.

I agree with previous poster if the work does show either practice details or letter headed notepaper for example it could be inferred that it 'belongs' to the practice - however if you developed it in your own time and received no recompense and your ex boss is 'cutting up rough 'over this it might be worth mentioning he got this for free and should be grateful for that fact!

unless it divulges any prices or sensitive information that might be of value to a competing practice in the area I wouldnt have thought it would be too much of a problem?

maybe the only problem here is an ex boss with a bruised ego?

There was a bit in a contract from one of my previous employers that anything I developed whilst in their employ including inventions became the property of the company - I refused to sign until this had been amended.

Re: Advice...?

Maisy — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:23:39 GMT

If you don't have a contract to suggest otherwise I'd imagine this work is yours and not the practices. Was any of the work on headed paper at all? This may be where there is a legal sticking point, are you a member of the BVNA? Would be worth giving their legal helpine a call, but otherwise I'd have thought the work belongs to you.

Re: Advice...?

Jo Mackenzie — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:17:07 GMT

Nope, I didn't have a contract at all. I personally feel that it is my property, particularly as it was not written in work time. For future reference how easy is it to get stuff copywrtied and how do you go abou it?

Re: Advice...?

Sal the 1st — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:02:02 GMT

was there anything in your contract with old boss to say that anything you created /developed in connection with the practice whilst you were employed by them remained the property of the practice? I have had this on a previous contract, but copywrited my own work to get around this