On site in patient cover/on call

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

Sal the 1st — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 00:04:01 GMT

[quote user="hissycat"]

Sometimes there is so much apathy in the vet nursing profession, its no wonder employers get away with these things

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you have hit the nail squarely on the head there! Plenty of people have moans and gripes but when it boils down to it they do sod all except carrying on moaning.(they become martyrs to the cause) The people that do try and do something are the ones that are branded trouble makers because they dare to question something that 'isnt right'.

A method I learnt in therapy training is - whenever you present a problem to somebody else take a little time to present a possible solution at the same time - that means thinking about your problem from another perspective and also shows the other person you are capable of exploring possibilities rather than being unmoveable and set in your ways.( also gives the impression that you can be ultra reasonable and capable of negotiation) The other payoff is when you start doing this it often becomes addictive and you solve problems all by yourself before you need to 'present' them.

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

hissycat — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 23:31:14 GMT

Certainly seems to be a bit of a grey area. Because we were able to sit down to lunch, even though we were still answering phones etc, dealing with any inpatients that needed anything during that time, I was told that they were within their rights not to pay us. I also contacted ACAS and was told the same thing. I have left now anyway so it wasn't worth the hassle to me of following it up with a lawyer, however I did inform the other staff, who, predictably, have done nothing. Sometimes there is so much apathy in the vet nursing profession, its no wonder employers get away with these things

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:20:48 GMT

[quote user="hissycat"]

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

[quote user="Jo RVN"]You don't have to be paid for every hour you are in the practice, just the hours you work.... [/quote]

I am 99% certain that you do have to be paid for every single hour that you are on the premises. If you have to stay on site when oncall you have to be paid for it. STRVN could confirm whether this is the case though as I am sure she has looked into it!

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hmm.. careful with this.. I enquired with the bvna legal team recently and apparently they do not have to pay you if you on a 'break' even if you have to be 'on call' and on the practice premises. I was very shocked by this as it seems completely unfair that you cannot leave your workplace yet they do not have to pay you! It might be worth giving them a call incase your circumstances are different. I would definitely make sure to sort out a decent deal for yourselves before agreeing to anything though, or you might find yourselves very short changed.

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I spoke to an employment lawyer, not the BVNA legal team, so I will take what I was told as all above board. He actually told me about a security gaurd who was much in the same boat, he was having his wages docked as he was asleep for some of his duty, he took them to court and won. As to breaks, they can not pay for work breaks, ie 20 mins, or your hour lunch etc, but if you are in charge of patients and on call not in your own home, you are technically "at work". Also I seem to remember the BVNA publishing something along the same lines a few years ago about being in the work premises overnight in VNJ?? I think.

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

SmegSlayer — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:28:14 GMT

i wasn't as an SVN doing 16.5 hour nights a couple of years ago.

At the practice I am in now there is an on-call allowance and an in-patient charge and a call out charge (we share OOH with another practice) When we do a weekend, on-call or not, we get the following Friday off in lieu. All our overtime also has to be taken as time in lieu as the company won't allow us to be paid for it

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

hissycat — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:20:16 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

[quote user="Jo RVN"]You don't have to be paid for every hour you are in the practice, just the hours you work.... [/quote]

[/quote]

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:34:19 GMT

If we work a night shift, we are off the next day, and we dont do whole weekends either, we do the days only or the nights only, not both, that is illegal.

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

Catherine11 — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:13:06 GMT

Thankyou for everyones feedback! It does sound as though we are going to be hard pushed to cover the normal working day and the nights/weekends with 6 nurses which are spread over 2 branches during the day especially if days off are going to be needed as well. Have most nurses covering days and nights/weekends, working to the working time directive or have they signed out of it?

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:48:42 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

[quote user="Jo RVN"]You don't have to be paid for every hour you are in the practice, just the hours you work.... [/quote]

[/quote]

I have Louise, and yes you do have to be paid, even if you are asleep, because you are not in your own home or bed, you are technically "at work"

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

Nick Shackleton — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:06:10 GMT

but you get two days off equals 2x 8hrs work. I work 8 hrs on sat and sun and get 4 days days off for it and over time for work over 8hrs, so i get time in lieu instead of pay

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

Kim Buckley — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:48:29 GMT

I work the whole weekend (days and nights) and get two days off plus £75 for each night (works out as minimum wage). We can claim overtime if we work more than 8 hours between 8am and 6pm. We get the same regardless to how busy we are.

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

Sian Pasquale — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:41:13 GMT

Thats interesting to know, so should your boss indicate how much extra he is going to pay you for agreeing to be on a weekend rota before you sign your new contract?

I am in a similar situation, we are starting to cover weekends with a nurse on-site instead of just being on-call, and my first weekend is new years, we have had no discussion about contract/pay/ and how it is going to be fairly recorded e.g. if one nurse has a really quiet weekend with only 1 inpatient against another nurse having a manic weekend, up all night with emergencies and a full kennel room of in-patients, it just doesn't seem fair that they should get paid the same amount, and not get paid more/more time off if they are more busy?

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

Sal the 1st — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:41:03 GMT

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10029426

see the bit 'what counts as work'

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

Nick Shackleton — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:24:28 GMT

[quote user="Princess Ophelia Hermione MacBeth"]

[quote user="Jo RVN"]You don't have to be paid for every hour you are in the practice, just the hours you work.... [/quote]

[/quote]

Yup whether you are asleep or working you are entitled to be paid for every hour you are on the practice premisses

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

Louise B — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:22:28 GMT

[quote user="Jo RVN"]You don't have to be paid for every hour you are in the practice, just the hours you work.... [/quote]

Re: On site in patient cover/on call

Jo RVN — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:06:48 GMT

When i cover a weekend I get an on call bonus which is £20/day and i get paid for 8hrs each day. Then we write down anything we do overtime, so every time you get called down, or have to go down to check inpatients, we claim for that. I get 2 1/2 days the following week, finishing at 12pm on the monday then the other half day usually on the following friday.

You don't have to be paid for every hour you are in the practice, just the hours you work.... I only get an on call bonus as I am not contracted to do weekends, i only cover if someone is away, the other nurses don't get this, they just get a day off in the week.

It is different everywhere, and it really depends what hours you are contracted to be doing to what time you will get off for doing the weekend