Blood sampling

Re: Blood sampling

Claire Cameron — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:03:57 GMT

We use jugular for all our kitties, for sample quality and quantity.

Try to save our cephalics for IV access.

Re: Blood sampling

Anonymous — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 22:54:42 GMT

I always try jugular first then if I really can't see/feel the vein then I will change to cephalic.

With regards to restraining the patient I really dont notice a huge amount of difference between cephalic or jugular most of the time there is easy jugular access. I have found though if you can't get a jugular vein because of patient being stressed then changing to cephalic isnt always beneficial because I feel like the patient is being more restrained do therefore more stressed but that isnt really often that that happens!

Re: Blood sampling

Vicky RVN — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 21:40:56 GMT

I like jugulars. Only just started taking samples, but don't find jugular any more difficult to get than cephalic. Our older vet doesn't ever do jugular samples in dogs But the rest of us generally do jugular, patient permitting!

Re: Blood sampling

Deemus — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:49:10 GMT

I usually prefer jugulars unless the patient is really struggling, or I can't get it. We prefer to preserve cephalics like others have said. I try to train my trainees to be proficient in all of them.

For those grotty cats, I love cat bags. It took me ages to persuade the boss to get a couple and now I have no idea how we managed without them.

A wise VN once told me that if you can't see a jugular, it's probably where the hair changes direction on the neck. It almost never fails me! Having said that, I have bad vein days too. I find that some days there are cases of second-personitis going on - where I can't see for looking but someone else has a go and gets its first time. Very frustrating!

Re: Blood sampling

Kim Buckley — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:06:09 GMT

I always go for the jugular except in very wriggly animals and suspected rat poisonings. I'm a lot better at it and it's so much quicker, especially in cats.

Re: Blood sampling

Nicola Smith — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:35:06 GMT

We always use jugulars, to preserve the cephalic for iv catheters or euthanasias - nothing worse than trying to find a cephalic for a PTS that has been wrecked by repeated stabbings. Sometimes blood from a cephalic can clot because flow is too slow.

We have very few problems with jugulars - put difficult cats on their side and tolerate it well.

Re: Blood sampling

wobbliebob — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:38:18 GMT

freckle im with you i prefer jugulars, just find them easier

Re: Blood sampling

Saskia Quinn — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:42:57 GMT

[quote user="Kimbo1985"]

[quote user="SaskiaVN"]

[quote user="Kimbo1985"]

I reckon it had a fat neck and a very deep jugular! That make you feel better?

[/quote]

aw thanks Kimbo!! It would make me feel better surely, only it was the cephalic I was trying to get a sample from!!!!!

[/quote]

Ok in that case it had fat legs and it's cephalic veins were very deep

[/quote]

Now I feel lots better better, thanks Kimbo you are a

Re: Blood sampling

Freckle — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:26:33 GMT

i'm a jugular girl through and through!

I find it is much easier, and less stressful to get a jugular - especially for cats! I also think it is wise for preserve cephalics unless needed. There is always the odd patient though - head shy dogs or scrabbly westies, when cephalic is the way to go!

we don't often use the sephenous, but have told it can be an excellent choice in dogs who prefer to stand rather than be handled.

Re: Blood sampling

Kim Buckley — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:20:19 GMT

[quote user="SaskiaVN"]

[quote user="Kimbo1985"]

I reckon it had a fat neck and a very deep jugular! That make you feel better?

[/quote]

aw thanks Kimbo!! It would make me feel better surely, only it was the cephalic I was trying to get a sample from!!!!!

[/quote]

Ok in that case it had fat legs and it's cephalic veins were very deep

Re: Blood sampling

Nick Shackleton — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:13:18 GMT

Try a 1" needle for them fat necks!!!

Re: Blood sampling

Saskia Quinn — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:12:17 GMT

[quote user="Kimbo1985"]

I reckon it had a fat neck and a very deep jugular! That make you feel better?

[/quote]

aw thanks Kimbo!! It would make me feel better surely, only it was the cephalic I was trying to get a sample from!!!!!

Re: Blood sampling

Kim Buckley — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:06:47 GMT

I reckon it had a fat neck and a very deep jugular! That make you feel better?

Re: Blood sampling

Saskia Quinn — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:00:40 GMT

we had a little pomeranian in as well for a glucose curve, and I was fine with her!! Cant get over the rottweiler issue lol!!!

Re: Blood sampling

Kim Buckley — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:58:50 GMT

Awww I hate bad vein days! I wouldn't worry! Everyone has them!

Re: Blood sampling

Louise B — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:58:43 GMT

[quote user="SaskiaVN"]

I had a very bad vein day yesterday - couldnt even get a blood sample out of a rottweiler - I mean..... a blooming Rotti and I couldnt get blood

[/quote]

Hahahahahahahahahaha - I have days like that

Re: Blood sampling

Saskia Quinn — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:54:32 GMT

I had a very bad vein day yesterday - couldnt even get a blood sample out of a rottweiler - I mean..... a blooming Rotti and I couldnt get blood

Re: Blood sampling

Louise B — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:25:13 GMT

Saphenous vein can work well for some dogs - especially those that are head or paw shy. Stand the dog on all fours and draw the blood from the back of the leg just above the hock where the vein runs almost vertical (i.e. not the wobbly bit that runs on the outside of the leg at an angle - where most people try to cannulate). This way the paws aren't handled and the leg isn't raised.

Re: Blood sampling

Rachel Jayne — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:54:00 GMT

In my first practice, we always used cephalics for everything, until a new nurse joined & tried to convert us all to jugulars, I did a few but didn't really like it so tended to stick with cephalics (although saying that, have always done cat jugulars except for BGs).

Then I moved to my 2nd practice & we don't do cephalics AT ALL unless absolutely have to, to avoid potentially blowing a vein that you might need to use for an iv. Makes sense. Was really annoying at first having to wade through fat labrador necks to get the jugular when the cephalic was jumping out in front of you, but I've got used to it now & see it as best practice.

I'm just about to move to practice number 3 and from the small amount of time I visited recently, I see they tend to favour cephalics.... so don't know what I'm gonna do now!!

Re: Blood sampling

chris beasley — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 22:19:57 GMT

[quote user="Dippy"]

If it's any consolation, I'm rubbish at holding for jugular samples and even worse at taking from there as I'm old school and when I trained, I never even saw anyone take from the jugular, let alone had a go at doing it myself. Consequently, when I returned to practice about 4yrs ago, I felt totally useless and although I do know how/where to find the jugular now, I'm nowhere near as confident as the younger, more newly trained nurses in the practice and still much prefer to take from the cephalic as I know I can get it first time and look less rubbish (not to mention the knock it gives my confidence when a trainee can do what I can't!)

[/quote]I cant agree with you more!

You have quoted me to the tee!

Re: Blood sampling

Honeybadger — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 21:17:22 GMT

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

jugular samples are not the be all to end all. Great if you can but if you cant what is the point in having to fight an animal all the way for a couple of drops of blood.

vets are not the most tollerant of creatures and have lost count of the number of times I have seen them lose their temper when blood sampling. If they know the animal can be a bit gitty just what is the point in bringing it through the back during a busy evening clinic, complaining all the time that they are running behind time and have had to wait for a nurse to come out of their consult to assist. expecting to get a sample in 2 secs flat when they already know the animal is not going to co operate and the nurse is not going to get a chance to run the sample that night because of their consults. Fair does in emergency cases - but how many of these are truly emergencies.

so you end up with a vet in a foul mood, an animal that wants to kill you and a nurse that is stressed because the vet is kicking off, the animal is kicking off, and chances are the client will kick off when they see all the multiple bits of fur missing from multiple attempts. just what are the odds you are going to get anything like a diagnostic sample?

in all but emergency cases leave it to the nurses and book them in at a sensible time when the right staff are available and are in the right frame of mind and actually have the time needed to run a sample without having to rush it through and risk making a mistake- it cuts down on the stress for everybody involved

[/quote]

Very well said! (If only I was brave enough to say this at work!!! )

Re: Blood sampling

Sal the 1st — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:42:34 GMT

jugular samples are not the be all to end all. Great if you can but if you cant what is the point in having to fight an animal all the way for a couple of drops of blood.

Re: Blood sampling

Dippy — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:25:17 GMT

Re: Blood sampling

Saskia Quinn — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:04:36 GMT

Good on you for speaking up to your boss!

I think in a lot of practices, the nurses are far better by far both with taking blood samples and placing iv catheters. Vets simply dont have the patience. The worst thing when it is role reversal i.e vet holding dog, they are not good at that either!

Jugular would be better for sample quality as Maisy said but also if you need larger volumes of blood.

Re: Blood sampling

Kim Buckley — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:08:01 GMT

We recently had to regularly take blood from a very angry 4 month old british shorthair. Found the best method to be lying on his side with someone holding his back legs and someone else holding front legs and head with neck stretched out. Worked really well and he stayed really calm. We did try from his cephalic but he was just to small!