night nurses

Re: night nurses

denise laughlin — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:17:34 GMT

yeah, i worked 7 nights x 14 hours, if I was lucky and got away on time. You just need to sign a waiver to say you wont sue the practice if you kark it.

Re: night nurses

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:46:27 GMT

Sal, you have to sign a waiver of the working time directive to be able to do it.

Re: night nurses

Sal the 1st — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:49:08 GMT

one bit says you cant work more than 8 hrs/24in a job that requires you to be mentally alert and then another bit contradicts that and says it doesnt count in hospital situations - so your guess is as good as mine?

Re: night nurses

Sal the 1st — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:45:31 GMT

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10028519

I did look into this for myself and have asked about it and this is the document I was referred to

Re: night nurses

tw1 — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:42:55 GMT

me again! i did ask and they seem to like it, they think 7 nights would be too much.

7 x 15 hour shifts, i couldn't do it but then i'm an old dear

Re: night nurses

Louise B — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:24:30 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite"]

You are excused but only because we like you, normally we would demand a better apology.

[/quote]

Hahaha - don't let her off that easily!

Re: night nurses

Caro Laithwaite VN — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:15:03 GMT

You are excused but only because we like you, normally we would demand a better apology.

Re: night nurses

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:41:19 GMT

Erm excuse me, I made that rota, purely because a week on week off was not feasible, once you have a week off there is nothing worse than another week of nights.

I will explain it better than TW...lol if I can actually remember, you work mon-thurs for a few weeks, giving you 3 whole Long weekends off , Fri Sat , sun in a row instead of one every other week.

When you do the swap you do a full week, this gives the other nurse who has just done 3 weekends on the trot a full week off and 3 weekends free.Thus the other nurse is working fri, sat sun for 3 weeks and had mon, tue wed thur off

I worked there for 8 months and it is a fab pl;ace with lovely people, but I as TW was not getting enough excitement out of my nursing as sometimes it can be quiet, and I felt I was losing my daily nursing skills as a result, plus sleeping in the day sometimes did not happen...ie phone ringing, dogs barking etc, so it is hard, other than that I would still be doing it.

Sorry to hear you are losing someone TW, Oh and the daytime nurses covered holidays a

Re: night nurses

danielle83 — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:26:31 GMT

Hi guys,

Thought I'd make some comment from a different perpective. I work nights but on a rolling night rota with days shifts also. At present our night shifts are 7pm-8am none sleeping shift maning sa and eq phones for 4 practices (our 3 branches plus another clinics). They are lone working shifts the duty vet comes in if necessary. At present the rota works that you work all day sat 8am-7pm, then all day sunday 8am-7pm. then mon,tues,wed,thurs nights. Friday we have off then we are back on days starting monday. three weeks later you start your weekend night rota work mon-thurs days then on to off during day friday and start 7pm-8am fri, sat, sun. monday off back on days tues. Sounds very confusing but it works really well.

Everyone takes a turn at night/emergency work and you get to enjoy all the other aspects of the job when back on days such as clinics etc. I love night duties. I never have any adverse sleeping patterns and transition between nights and days really well. (sometimes do have a glass of wine or two when going from days to nights as i don't have to get up the next morning and aids sleep! ofcourse that is my excuse anyway!)

Nights allow lots of patient interaction, enable you to notice more sutle behaviour changes and generally allow you to offer more time per patient just offering general TLC. I find the reason for this is no other distractions. There are no howling dog castrates, vets running in and out of wards, staff emember congregating or calls from reception about somebodies hamster having babies!

I find night work very rewarding and enjoy it immensely. Have been working the rolling rota for 5 years now and still enjoy it. It know its not quite the strain of full time night only but we often make swaps and I pick up as many nights as are available. Pay is great i'm on my second week of night in the last three weeks and enjoy every minute of it.

Give it a go, every new proffessional experience and practice environment is a learning experience. Go for it!

Re: night nurses

Sal the 1st — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:08:39 GMT

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

so week 1 nurse does 48hrs and week 2 does 401/2 by my reckoning. I would agree that week 1 is maybe a bit too long .Who covers holidays and and illness? do you get somebody else in to do this or does it mean just picking up extra shifts? I feel that there are enough hours here for 3 nurses depending on your workload

[/quote]

ok thought I had better explain this a bit better - not disagreeing with Caro (well not all of it ) but there are still practices out there that will not use locums (which is rather shortsighted of them) and have nobody else they can call in and if somebody is on holiday the other nurses are expected to muck in and cover. If you only have two nurses to begin with that leaves the other one worn to a frazzle - hence the 3 nurses.

I have been in this situation both on day and night shifts and it isnt nice - and then you have to take into consideration that not everybody is able or willing to work the extra hours - so as I say not disagreeing 100% but not agreeing either.

I would only ever volunteer for extra hours for this sort of situation now in extreme circumstances and only when I had discussed with other nursing staff - If one nurse will do it and the other wont it can make the other nurse look bad, plus the 'gratitude' shown by the vets when you get them out of a hole very often isnt worth it

Re: night nurses

Vicky RVN — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:35:35 GMT

When i qualify and have a couple of years qualified experience under my belt i'd like to give night work a go, don't know how long i could do if for but would love the experience i'd gain.

Re: night nurses

Caro Laithwaite VN — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:34:49 GMT

Until you try you won't know far better to try and decide on that than wish what if. Just keep us updated on how things work out. It is an eye opener doing emergency work. A totally different spectrum of the environment that most people will only deal with occasionally in general practice when it becomes stressful as it is not routine.

The only problem with very young kids is they are demanding l know the aux and vets have muttered this through tired comments kids do not understand why the parent can not be making whoopee and just want to sleep, who cares if they have been on duty all night hehehe (not that as l am not a child person l would ever find this funny perish the thought l am full of sympathy for them)

Re: night nurses

Emma Forde RVN — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:44:05 GMT

Thankyou so much for your insight. My son is 1 next week, I dont think I can see how it would affect him apart from me not doing bedtime.

The shifts tend to run from 6.30pm 'til 8.30am. I know its alot but i'd only have to do 2 a week to make more than I now!!

I am mainly concerned about changing jos to be honest. Its quite scary as I've only worked in one practice!

Re: night nurses

Caro Laithwaite VN — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:55:47 GMT

Emma on the health side night workers have a right in law to have a yearly MOT that their employers have to pay for to check how your health is going.
I have known a night nurse that had to give up she was meant to be 17:30-03:30 but after a few months got severe depression and was told to give it up by her Dr.
Health issues are there as an issue even if not concious of them, they need to be a consideration if you do get ill. As l said though so do car accidents driving a car.

If you are able to do it then l find that weight is a problem. No matter what l can not loose it because l eat stupid times and wrong food. No matter how nice that sensible meal looks at 3 or 4am it is tasteless and your body wants the wrong food.I do know people though that can eat sensible so again it vary's. For the most part though those naughty snacks are going to become a part of life.

My main problem is lack of any sleep pattern. When l sleep though l sleep. Some folks like dark curtains, eye covers, ear covers. All l do is have normal curtains and have always slept with a pillow over my head since l was a kid, l wake up and it is off me so l think it is a hang over for me from being a kid.
I always try and sleep on the day l start which can be hard if l slept through the night but if you don't it can be to gruelling to go all day and night no sleep and then it is a sod to catch up on duty as you are carrying a double load of tired round with you. Even a few (one or two) hours sleep is better than none.

I never force sleep now though. If l really feel l need it and can not sleep l count sheep and boy that wacks me out not that l need that to often. l have said before about my weird sleep patterns.

On 4 on 4 off l find l am just getting over my last shift set when l am back on and would prefer a 5 and 5 l feel 4 is not enough 7 is a bit to long. Also don't forget that that will carry over bank holidays and weekends and on a 4/4 as someone said it is only a weekend every 7 weeks or so. With christmas generally the night staff deal with it between themselves as they do most things. Management are happy to leave them to it so long as every thing is covered.

People think great 4 days to do what you want but all l want to do is not a lot on my days off except read or computer. Some people have horses or dogs and do may shows with them so that gives them something to do.

With hub l/we are probably lucky there is just the 2 of us and still have a special relationship he is fine about it. It depends when your shift statrs. On mine if on a 22:00-8:00 l leave about 21:15 and by then hub is fast asleep on the settee so we have had time together anyhow. And on my 4 off it is a normal evening.
If l am on a 17:30-03:30 then l can get a bit of sleep when l get home although l do not get to speak to him until he gets back the next night.
During the day he is at work anyhow on a "normal" shift you would be as well.

I do not know how old your kids are but the night auxiliary seems to get on ok her very young daughter stays with her mum (her hub does a lot of very early shifts) and that seems to work well.
If the kids are older and/or your partner is home l know night nurses and vets who have older and younger kids and it all works out well.

Money is better and you are generally working with a small team. You need to be able to handle being on your own mentally a lot of people are scared of the dark and it greatly increases the strain on them.
There is dealing with problems as the vet may be in bed, dealing with a client, off the premises. That is one of the reasons unqualified's are not or should not be allowed to do nights at an emergency clinic. It is one thing inhouse (l don't agree with that either by the way having done it as an SVN) but not when you cover for a large area and amount of vets. (l realise l will no doubt get a lot of screams now from SVN's saying they cope and there isnt a problem, they will be missing the point l am not kicking them but the vets who expect it)

I love the fact there is no dental's, the dental machine was invented by the devil to confuse and befuddle. A normal op for me now is caesarian, GDV, spleenectony, lots of x-rays, FUS cats, cats with thrombus and rta's, fitting dogs and collapsed dogs.
I notice day shifts do not have so many of those in and it is worth getting used to the fact you will deal with a lot of those if you are a general night emergency clinic.

Hope that will help a bit am sure the other nighters will add their comments on but if you want any clarifying on anything l have said (waffled on about) either post here or send me a pvt message.

Nights at the end of the day are something that is a different experience for everyone.

Re: night nurses

Kerry Spain — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:09:35 GMT

[quote user="Bouncyfi"]

[quote user="kezzathecat"]

. I dropped to 6 1/2 stone,

[/quote]

Maybe I should get a job there!

[/quote]

HAHAHAHAHA! Yeah I need to go back and work there for a bit I'm 10 stone now LOL

Re: night nurses

Fiona Leathers — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:07:02 GMT

[quote user="kezzathecat"]

. I dropped to 6 1/2 stone,

[/quote]

Maybe I should get a job there!

Re: night nurses

Kerry Spain — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:54:36 GMT

I've not specifically worked night shifts, although one pLace I used to work I ended up practically working through the day and the night as they where so badly organised. I was averaging on 60 - 70 hour weeks every week for 2 years. I dropped to 6 1/2 stone, suffered from exhausted all the time, messed up sleep pattern, general depression and self loathing.

So I'd say even though I wasn't working just nights but a combination of day and nights it effected my health big time.

Re: night nurses

Emma Forde RVN — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:35:56 GMT

Can I just jump in and ask all of those who work/have worked nights if it affected there life in a negative way?

I am thinking of doing nights as a new job. Firstly for the money as I have a son and have to pay the bulk of my wages as child care and secondly due to other work issues where I am now.

I worry about how it would affect my son and my relationship with my husband and generally affect life at home.

Any tips/advice?

Re: night nurses

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 17:23:51 GMT

I disagree with Sal because of having done the on off shifts it isnt worth it. Cover can be got in as needed as l say other wise nurses loose out. I certainly wouldn't be happy for a 3rd if l was the nurses as l would loose out. Night nurses do not go ill all that often and it is mainly holidays that cover is needed for and for 2 nurses that does not justify all the cost of a 3rd.

Re: night nurses

Sal the 1st — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:44:34 GMT

Re: night nurses

Nikki Graef — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:14:04 GMT

I agree with Caro, ask the new nurses what they would prefer, i definately would prefer a set rota with no swapping about

Re: night nurses

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 21:44:50 GMT

For my part l would prefer to do a set on off not a swop about. You say the first nurses wanted it but they have left and appears so have several others. it may be time to ask what they would like to do other than stick to some old formula.

Not sure why you need 3 night nurse if you have dedicated night nurses @ one per shift. if you did it would not be worth anyone time to work as for them the money would be spread to thinly. They would not be working enough hours as it would be spread to far apart from end of shift to start of new one.

Re: night nurses

tw1 — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:03:08 GMT

the rota is a wee bit confusing but i'll try and explain

nurse 1 works m,t,w,t 6.15pm - 8.15am (which i think is long! that's another story!)

nurse 2 works f,s,s - fri 6.45pm - 8.45am, sat 8pm-10am, sun 8pm-8.15am

they do a block of this each but when nurse 1 turns into nurse 2 she does her mon tue wed thur and fri sat + sun and then goes on to do only fri sat sun.

we did start with 7 on and 7 off but the first lot of nurses changed it to this way.

i think it would be better with 3 nurses but don't think we can afford that

Re: night nurses

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:07:18 GMT

I agree with Niknoks l did not comment on the rota as l was so confused by it, also agree with her assessment of shift changes.

Re: night nurses

Nikki Graef — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:06:45 GMT

I worked nights for about 2 years initially 4 on 4 off which i didnt find that good, as someone said before you go for about 8 weeks without getting a weekend off!! Not good for the social life!!

It then changed to 7 on 7 off which i loved and would definately go back to doing nights if i ever fancied a job change but only on 7 on 7 off rota i think.

I think alot of night nurses do only last a short while and that is just the nature of the job most people cant do it for that long but the hours at your practice seem a little jumbled i was trying to make sense of them and got rather confused!! Maybe you would find they stayed longer with a more structured rota? IE 4 on 4 off or 7 on 7 off, these seem to be the most common ones.

It may not make any difference and your system may work fine just a suggestion