a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Caro Laithwaite VN — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:30:19 GMT

To be honest l called it disgusting it sort of squished cold and soggy

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Walker — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:55:06 GMT

Call the raw fish Sushi

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:29:08 GMT

confirming fish is raw.. sod it though just ate it

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:26:47 GMT

3 dogs of mine at various times refused to eat my cooking.

Hub wont eat unless forced to he will sometimes eat my stews thats about it.

thank goodness for sauces.. at moment my chips have mayo and mint sauce on as does my burnt fish pastie which is cold inside (again) and black patches outside

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Mac Feather — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:20:00 GMT

Caro I cant believe you are as bad in the kitchen as you say u are!

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:05:19 GMT

bun figh ohh B away l am cremating cooking my dinner please send me the buns

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

wobbliebob — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:24:08 GMT

snap with the shity week bit more light hearted please

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Mac Feather — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:10:58 GMT

[quote user="sal the 1st"]cool it folks [/quote]

I agree, why do things have to become so heated/personal?

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Sal the 1st — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:43:15 GMT

thought we had gone too long without spat breaking out! cool it folks - I came on here tonight for a bit of normality after a really soddy week - not to witness ANOTHER bunfight

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:23:55 GMT

I have never heard of this food until I read this thread.

What I have to say does not necessarly have anything to do with it either, but something that I read within the thread.

I have no proof for cats, but I do have proof for dogs, that increased protein does not harm the kidneys, not even ones that are already compromised, there is no scientific proof of this. I will however look up cats and read it from scientific experiments, rather than the crud from a food company.... as you can tell I have no time for them, they sell foods that IMO do more harm than good.

I have a dog who has renal failure.... her last blood test had her urea at 10...0.4 from being normal, and her crea at 320, her prot creat ratio is within normal limits. She is fed a varied diet with a phos binder(thats the important bit when it comes to kidneys.... more so that prot content).

Due to her varied diet, it also means she does not have a dicky tummy should she eat anything that she is not used to.....probably because her gut flora is abundant, and not limitedd to 1 food type. Also because she has a diet with a normal protein, rather than a reduced one, it means that her immune system is tip top, and not compromised due to lack of or reduced protein.

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Alana Dent — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:13:28 GMT

i feel you are using your so called "knowledge" to bully us nurses who are creating a bigger picture for everyone to make informed decisions. I would not reccomend this food, but i would not overly discourage a client from feeding it, it was a note to be cautious over ORIGIN of food brought online. And as i am aware no one recieved any benefits from the food company to pay for expensive vets bills. I have worked over in Oz for over a year (and am going back to continue to work) i have seen the effects and the bills the clients have. travelling the world, being un-qualified doesnt make you a narrow minded person, trying to 'rubbish' another Vetnurse users comments shows your narrow minded-ness.

I DIDNT say the food was rubbish, or discouraged people to feed it, CAUTION, look it up in a dictionary love.

If you are going to succeed as an ANA or a RVN then you must prepare yourself for a difference of opinion in the workplace, and if you cant, then you are entering the wrong profession.

So please act your age, and accept my point of view as i have accepted yours, and stop getting personal.

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:58:02 GMT

[quote user="Walker"]

The over irradiation of Orijen cat food in Australia is well documented. Australia is the only country that irradiates food.

The point of this topic was is it a 'good food'.As we all know processed foods are not all equal. I can only advise from personal experience, so for what it's worth..

I have a dog with skin problems and we tried a number of different treatments, once I changed her diet we haven't looked back I also feed my diabetic cat Orijen and have done so for the last 2 years, she is as healthy as she could be and stable.

All my cats and dogs are fed Orijen and raw. I'm lucky that we sell it at the surgery I work for so I get a discount.

[/quote]

Oh what surgery do you work at?? That's brill! I don't care what 'qualification' you have personally. I know it works for me and I have seen and heard of so many animal's lives turned round from it. It would take a lot to put me off the food to be honest. Glad to hear yours are doing well on it. It's just such a great concept and very outside the box compared to a lot of the commercial veterinary diets out there. Though I have to give Hills, Purina and RC some credit, they do make some great diets for certain uses. but their maintenance diets are still really full of fillers and randomness that really isn't needed not to mention coated in fat! I would be really interested to see how a Westie would do on Orijen.

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Walker — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:18:13 GMT

The over irradiation of Orijen cat food in Australia is well documented. Australia is the only country that irradiates food.

The point of this topic was is it a 'good food'.As we all know processed foods are not all equal. I can only advise from personal experience, so for what it's worth..

All my cats and dogs are fed Orijen and raw. I'm lucky that we sell it at the surgery I work for so I get a discount.

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:20:38 GMT

[quote user="Lani15"]

Name dropping gets you no-where. If you dont feel you should be 'tarred' with the breeder brush than maybe you shouldnt act like it. The original point i was making was to be aware of the food origin. Radiation (MAY have) caused the problem, but they couldnt pin point what it was that exactly went wrong with the product, which does not rule out it happening again. It is my job as a RVN to make everyone aware of the full facts, so they can make an informed decision. I am in a far better position than yourself to bring the facts to the table.

And on that note, im not playing this game with you anymore, you can go 'assert' your authority elsewhere, to some other new girl, who might take it lying down,

Just one last bit of adivce. Open your mind, instead of being so narrow minded, you might, just MIGHT learn something from someone! :p

[/quote]

You were the first to drop the letters to big yourself up and put me down thank you very much. My name dropping was my defense to prove a needed point that being a breeder doesn't mean squat either way. I have been very interested in my cats and pets health and diet for many many years and i sorta pride myself on it! So forgive me for getting my feathers ruffled when someone throws their qualifications at me to put me down or make me look less 'qualified'. i know many unqualified out there that have way more knowledge and experience than a lot of the actual qualified in the industry. Many people learn in different ways and not everyone is a sponge. Each should be respected in their own way.

Just passing judgment on something one really doesn't know all the facts on should be pointed out. Fair enough you have your reservations and concerns, i have no problem with that and have the utmost respect in fact but I don't think you went about it very well. Just as I didn't in my initial response. I myself was very concerned and worried about the food last year during the 'scare' but I took every precaution and did my research before yelling fire! the events were isolated to AUZ and no other instances were found outside of the AU/NZ area as far as I'm aware. The company was very honest and did everything they could possibly do in their power to rectify and sort out the problem. Funding was sent to many families and lots of apologies were given and precautions were taken to keep it from happening again. It was a genuine mistake and mistakes happen!

"RVN to make everyone aware of the full facts, so they can make an informed decision. I am in a far better position than yourself to bring the facts to the table."

wow you must know everything then? I wasn't aware that the NVQ and Degree made us gods with all the facts over everyone else in the world that did their own research.

and to Open my mind... right. yes cause me feeding raw and other varieties outside of the commercial brands is so closed minded...because i'm so closed minded moving over an ocean into a whole different country with no one here, traveling all over the world, going to university, reading books, asking questions, being about as open minded as anyone could possibly be. right maybe you should get to know someone before pointing those perfect fingers of yours. You don't know me and you don't know how 'open minded' I am.

Enjoy the ride, watch the tree limbs.

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Alana Dent — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:05:39 GMT

And on that note, im not playing this game with you anymore, you can go 'assert' your authority elsewhere, to some other new girl, who might take it lying down,

Just one last bit of adivce. Open your mind, instead of being so narrow minded, you might, just MIGHT learn something from someone! :p

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:59:03 GMT

[quote user="Lani15"]

In reply to me being a "random" my profile clearly states that i am a QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED, REGISTERED vet nurse. I have worked in many places, and one of them was in australia where i saw the effect that this food had on cats, and it broke my heart to think it was caused by a food. Many countries have different techniques to help make 'foodstuffs' safe to ener an eco system, and it could happen again.

It seems that you are using your "breeder knowledge and experience" which is my experience and im sure almost 90% of other RVNs or SVNs on here will agree that is the worst type of knowledge and experience.

[/quote]

Random meaning you had no posts other than all the sudden piping up about the food with nothing to back it up.

Then you more than anyone should know it wasn't the food that caused the problems alone! It was the countries irradiation techniques. Accidents happen, there have been no other problems with the food outside of that incident.

I have been a hobby breeder for a year now so it's not just my 'breeder experience'. I have been working in SA veterinary care for over 3 yrs and 6 in equine so it's a little more than just breeder knowledge and experience. The breeders that I do speak to that also recommend and use this product three are VETS, and 6 are ex RVNs and two are current RVNs and 8 are in the US and are Vet Techs. So if it's just breeder experience from that lot alone, i'm not too worried. I've fully aware that there are many especially cat breeders out there that seem to disagree with a lot that the veterinary profession stand for, but you also need to remember there are a lot of very well known and established breeders out there one in particular at Bristol University, Professor Tim Gruffydd-Jones BVetMed PhD DipECVIM MRCVS RCVS Specialist in Feline Medicine Bristol. Whom I trust very much!!! But i'm sure his experience and knowledge is the worst kind too...

but what would i know.

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Alana Dent — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:25:34 GMT

Quote;

Orijen is a fresh change from the garbage most of the veterinary diets are pumping out at the moment full of cereals and grains that cat's systems can't cope with sending them down the long road of renal failure and other internal organ problems. Most from not being able to process them properly or even from them hindering their normal systems from absorbing important things like Taurine from too much rice!

So your saying that almost 100% of veterinery professionals, and years and years of research onto developing science diets for animals are a waste of time?? I suggest you do your research. I have been undertaking further study in science diets and you cannot argue with their results.Animals may have a higher incidence of IBS these days, but im sure that is through pet owners being more aware of the what vets can do and offer these days. A generation of more pro-active and reponsible owners.

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Vicky RVN — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:23:39 GMT

Steph, i don't recall anyone saying that you don't look after your pets properly? The posts were just stating that there may have been a problem with this food so to be careful. The fact that your cats are healthy on it, great. But maybe not all cats have been ok on it. So maybe be a little less defensive and try not to jump down peoples throats? And just because someone is a newcomer to the site, doesn't mean they are a 'troll' as you so pleasantly put it. That could be classed as bullying you know.

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:14:15 GMT

Many people fill me with confidence especialy if they are qualified, l am also happy to take advice from unqualifed people that l trust to know their subject.

Steph the fact you are a breeder actually does nothing to fill me with any confidence with my feelings for breeders. And the fact breeders use it means nothing. i am glad that you have healthy cats l do not agree with bringing more cats or dogs into the world whatever they are and however it is justified by the breeder/s. I would never pass on info that breeders use a product l base it on other info that l have heard.

Back to my comments l stand by them you are welcome to stand by yours but to call a newcomer a troll for warning as she tried to do was way out base. Had l spoken to anyone or speak to them and they are interested in the product l would strangely enough with my dumb atrophied brain told people to check it out on the net and try to find out more info on the warnings.. now l know about them.

Further more it did not appear to my brain [earlier comments] to be a building full of worried people there was only a few posts by about 3 or 4 people.

I am sure that arlo could make it a basis of site rules that any warning must carry a full scientific paperwork with them in future.

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Alana Dent — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:11:49 GMT

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:07:14 GMT

And if you've got a little time on your hands I find this highly intriguing! http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/ORIJEN_White_paper.pdf

Sorry for jumping up but i don't take lightly to someone saying i'm not caring for my pets properly or that I would ever recommend something that might be harmful to others! every pet is different at the end of the day and I don't have a bad thing to say about it and that's just my opinion. but it's very unfair of some one to come on and start speculation of a very well made and well known product outside of UKland that might be a little different to your average roast dinners!

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:01:37 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite"]

Steph the fact you have been feeding it "as have other breeders" does not fill me with any confidence.

If someone, especially someone who is qualified wants to pass a warning on l am glad that they did. Fine it may be sorted but l did not know about it in the first place and now l do so it can help me make my own judgement if l was asked yes l can say l am also told it is now ok BUT l am aware of a potential problem, that is what is important.

[/quote]

yes but honestly what would anyone ever be able to do to actually fill YOU with confidence Caro?? I don't feed my food to please you. I have happy healthy cats and always have done. All my cats have lived long healthy lives and died of natural causes late in life or were murdered by raccoons.

Passing on a warning that is valid is fine I have no problem with that but posting a half hearten warning with no details to back it up and causing unwarranted speculation for no apparent reason with out justification was a bit rash! surely it would have made more sense to say.. oh is that the one that caused problems?? and maybe seen if someone else knew about it OR even better waited until you had proper time to answer properly with reference to your concerns instead of screaming fire in a building full of worried people just cause you smelled smoke.

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:57:11 GMT

[quote user="Lani15"]

And on another nutritional note, cats do need extra protein (as they get the majority of their calories from protein) but renal disease is not detectable until 75% of kidney nephrons are diseased,and this cannot be reveresed - feeding a diet that is almost completly protein can speed up the degeneration of nephrons. ALL science diets (hills, iams, royal canin) have adult cat diets which are slightly lowered in protien (as well as sodium and phoshrus)to slow this process down.

As a nurse, kidney cats are a huge part of daily nursing in cats as young as 3!

[/quote]

not an article specifically on cats but still interesting.

http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/Myths_of_High_Protein.pdf

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:55:44 GMT

Steph the fact you have been feeding it "as have other breeders" does not fill me with any confidence.

Re: a new diet...... Origen? (sp?)

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:54:45 GMT

[quote user="Lani15"]

I was mearly suggesting to air on the side of caution, MANY cats died, few recovered and they are still finding new cases regularly. When buying diets off the internet you dont know and can often not trace where they have come from, and it is unproved (altho likely) that it was the radiation. I am not discouraging feeding the diet, just be aware. For anyone who has seen it effects will understand.

I am NOT an activist, just want the best for peoples pets, and only with the full picture can that happen.

[/quote]

These aren't just diets off the internet though. Champion and Bern Pet foods and Orijen are a very well known natural food company in Canada that has been round for a while (1975) and has other productions of well known and used foods in the US and Canada. There's nothing wrong with the food it was the processing it went through to enter the country that was the problem. This could happen with and has happened with any other food, even human consumables. there was a baby milk scare a few years back with the same sort of problem. Good product bad entry into a country from it's 'treatment' of the food for irradiation.

Activist or not you have no other contributing posts and very litte information on your profile regarding who you are. You could be anyone and I have been on other forums where 'randoms' have all the sudden signed up just to start crap about what they believe in and need justice for their loss. Orijen is a fresh change from the garbage most of the veterinary diets are pumping out at the moment full of cereals and grains that cat's systems can't cope with sending them down the long road of renal failure and other internal organ problems. Most from not being able to process them properly or even from them hindering their normal systems from absorbing important things like Taurine from too much rice!

It's nice to see a company going back to basics and actually looking at the natural diet of the animal instead of finding what's the cheapest to fill it up and keep them quiet. Cats and dogs are riddled with IBS and all sorts of gut problems these days.

http://www.championpetfoods.com/faq/

more details here. http://www.bernpetfoods.co.uk/index.php or http://www.championpetfoods.com/