ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Tracy Windler RVN — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:59:29 GMT

Interested to know how everything went with your boss...hope you got it sorted.

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Helen Brewster — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:37:54 GMT

I remember those days! I have never been paid a retainer for being "on call" but in current job we get petrol money and about £8/hr for each hour we are there - I live 30mins away but can't charge for overtime till I arrive at the practice and it stops when I leave - the logic is thats its my decision to leave so far away!

Did work at a practice where I was on call every other night and every other weekend for about 6 months, when we were very short-staffed! Horrible, no retainer and just about £5.40/hr (no petrol money either!).

An equine practice I worked at also required lots of OOH and if we had any colic patients in , then 2hourly colic checks all night were required but only paid for the 15mins the check was supposed to take - not the 1/2 hr to get up, switch alarm off, go outside, unlock stables, get paperwork, do check and then do all the above in reverse!! So whole night of broken sleep and got total of £5.30 (1 hours overtime!!!) But wages were only £11,000 - so prob should have suspected at the start!

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Jo Mackenzie — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:14:51 GMT

I used to live above the practice and did all the overnight care of inpatients for nothing extra - at first I just did it more as a favour but the practice owner soon started taking advantage!!! It got to the point that I was going downstairs three or four times a night to check animals, and spending hours at the weekends cleaning them out and giving them their meds, I didn't have a life! But I got nothing extra for it, it was just taken for granted that I would do it, so I moved out and I'm much happier (and saner!)

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Alana Dent — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:57:25 GMT

Hey Bex, you are working way too mich, soon you will burn yourself out!

You are only obliged to work your contracted hours. And also as a trainee (is that is what your are??? i couldnt see RVN on your profile) im pretty sure you are well within your rights to "be under supervison" when doing on call, and that supervision comes from the Vet surgeon (Not that after 3years you need it.....)

Also Under EU law full time hours are 37hours and you have to accept more hours as overtime (which should be increased rate!) unless you sign the working time directive.

Hope this helps!

Good Luck

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

StephSVN — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:58:38 GMT

I don't know much about employment law, I'm sure many people on here know much more than me...but I'm suprised no one has mentioned the working hours directive (?) - surely you are well exceeding the limit of hours supposed to be worked per week? I know many people in this line of work have had to sing to 'opt-out' of the working hours, but you must be very much over!?

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

les punton — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:32:18 GMT

your not a mug! there are alot of us been there but know what your worth x

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

bex24 — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 22:31:15 GMT

I do need to get this sorted asap its just so difficult to find the right time as my boss is the owner and only vet at the practice he is either operating or in consult its so frustrating. Think I will need to call a meeting one night after work next week. After reading everyone's responses I feel like a complete mug, i can't believe I have thought that it was acceptable not to be paid any extra for being on call for the last 3 years

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Kathryn Welsh — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:10:37 GMT

I'm a sole charge branch nurse and its my responsibilty to do the in-patients at this branch but as i only live up-stairs its not too bad but in the last 2 weeks i've done 8night checks it is really killing me so can imagine long-term doing every other would be horrid. Luckily we don't do our own on-call so thats not a issue and i get paid 20 per first hour then double time for everythin gover that. We do 1:4 saturdays 8-5 which is fine. You really need to get this sorted!!

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Sarah W — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:55:46 GMT

Our nurses do a 1:9 "residential weekend"...The weekend hours are part of a 40 hour week.......some weeks are more some weeks are less. We get days off before and after the weekend. generally one night a week but not before or for 2 weeks after a weekend.

We dont get paid for the nights or weekends as part of our hourly rota. But if we get called out of bed we get £13 and then any hours overtime at time and a half on top of this.

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Vicky RVN — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 23:41:33 GMT

That is a crazy amount of OOH to do! I do hope you manage to get somethnig sorted out.

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:47:19 GMT

I would ask for a lot more than £10 per night do not sell your lives short he is living the hog n high life on YOUR lack of it so about time he pays fairly for it.

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

bex24 — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:35:55 GMT

When I took the job my boss mentioned that once the practice was busy enough he would move the OOH to Vets Now. However, now I feel that he won't because he will lose money from OOH work and potentially lose clients as we have had alot of people register because they love the fact that the OOH work is done here.

After reading all your replies I am definately going to ask to be paid for being available (on call) as it leaves me with pretty much no social life. When all my friends are going out Im stuck at home, and its starting to get me down.

Plus if he did not have nurses to do the call outs then he would have to pay vets now every month - so why can't he pay us instead? It would still be cheaper for him to give us a £10 a night retainment fee than to pay approx £500 to vets now each month.

Thanks again for all your advice guy's - really appreciate it

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Maisy — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:29:08 GMT

Has your boss mentioned whether they will be changing over to an OOH provider? I agree that 1:2 nights and weekends is a lot, no work/life balance there! Can you and the other nurse speak to your boss to discuss this? It can be difficult when working in a little practice, but some places will share OOH with another practice of similar size if they don't want to fully change to someone like VetsNow for instance. Surely this would be more beneficial than have constantly tired and fed up nurses!

Good Luck!

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Nicki Fern — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:15:17 GMT

Yeah! I agree, there are plenty of prectices out there where the nurses don't do any on calls. I love my job and accept that there is OOH work but I do have a life outside work too! I get paid when I an on call as a retainer and extra if I am called in. Also if we have to check patients I charge from the time I leave home to when I return at an agreed rate! The clients never question the OOH charge, how can they, would they rather their pet was not looked after?

Sounds a bit like the boss is taking the P***! A little friendly chat with him should do and if you have no luck then dust off your CV!

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Nikki Graef — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:35:15 GMT

There is no way i would work every other night and every other weekend on call!!! Where is the time for you to have a life in that?

I used to work one night a week on call and 1 weekend in 4 thats the maximum id work. We used to get £50 for being on call in the week plus overtime if we had to do anything plus time off in leiu.

Weekends were part of the normal rota, now i do no on call. If i had to do it again i would expect to be paid alot more i want to enjoy my free time not work myself to death!!!

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

les punton — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:23:58 GMT

we get £30 per call out, which I find ok, this is for the first hour but there after its £10 an hour for example if we had to operate. Then if I have animals in it is split up depending on what is needing done, if its a dog on a drip, needing medication, let out for a wee and a TPR the client gets charged approx £32 but I only get £11. Personally I think I should get paid more and the client charged less!

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

bex24 — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:30:16 GMT

if there were premises for us to stay overnight then it would not be as bad or atleast if we were paid something for being on standby like maisy said, a retainer fee, or if our annual salary was increased but to drive back and forth through the night for £11.25 a time is ridiculous i feel. Thanks for your responses. Its given me a bit more confidence to approach my boss with this matter. I was made to feel like I was way above my station to be asking for more money.

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

bex24 — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:23:19 GMT

Thanks maisy,

Yes, there is only one other nurse she feels exactly the same she lives almost as far as I do. We get £25 the first time we have to come out and then £11.25 for each time after that!! £11.25 is not even worth getting out of bed for let alone the milage/traveling time and then an hour at work? The reason we are told that we cannot be paid more is purely because the owner would not get a big enough profit off of our call outs - i think?

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Sara Benton — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:21:49 GMT

I used to do 1:4 weekends on call £15 retainer for being on call and £10 per hour if called in at all (although I didn't know this at first!). We only had a small team of nurses so occasionally we did 1:3, this never got us anything above the usual on call retainer but the boss was really nice about it and nobody really minded. Nights were covered by the vet, however one nurse (on a rota baisis) was on 'stand by', never had to stay at the practice but again £10 per hour if called in.

It sounds like you are really getting a raw deal. I would check your contract if it was originally agreed that you would not be on call. They may be in breach of contract, in which case you can lambaste them strongly!! You should definitely be getting paid extra for your work and compensated for your travel. Like you I lived 25 mins away by car but I was allowed to add an hour to any OOH I did to cover the cost and time. Your boss sounds like he's taking advantage, big time!!

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

bex24 — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:48:28 GMT

Sorry guys, one more point - when i took the job I was told that once the practice was busy enough we would use a dedicated emergency clinic to do our OOH work, so again, OOH was not a problem for me in the beginning as I was under the impression it was only for a limited period

Re: ADVICE NEEDED ON OOH PLEASE

Maisy — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:47:41 GMT

When I have worked in practices who do their own on call, the nurses received a retainer fee for actually being on call, as well as paid overtime for the time spent with inpatients/emergencies etc (except for one place who paid nothing!). I think its unfair for your boss to expect nurses to come back to the practice to do checks etc and not pay extra, or provide at least a little bedsit or something for the nurse to stay overnight.

I wouldn't say this is normal practice at all as there is normally some renumeration involved for being on call (amount will vary), and I guess there are only the two nurses if you do every other night/weekend? How does the other nurse feel about the rota system? When you work within a small team and cover on call you know you won't get a great rota from the start but there should be some extra income involved from this especially as you have to travel so far to get back to work in the night. If your boss is worried about cost to clients, I'm sure most client whose pets are hospitalised would not mind an extra fee added if it meant their pet was being looked after and not left alone all night.