Head tilt in bunnies

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Maisy — Sun, 13 Jun 2010 12:20:59 GMT

Glad your bunny seems to be doing better now

[quote user="Rachel Jayne RVN C-SQP MBVNA"]

Apart from, he really shouldn't have had steroids!!!!!!!!!I can't remember exactly why, but I remember at the last (not this year, 2009) RWAF conference, Brigette Reusch said that steroids should never be given to bunnies.

[/quote]

They are often used as part of EC initial treatment though. I know there are some differing opinions for steroid use in rabbits but it does seem to be more acceptable to use them in these cases.

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Rachel Jayne — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:46:20 GMT

DIdn't realise it was such an old thread either!

Eitherway, at least he's better

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Rachel Jayne — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:45:04 GMT

Glad he's better just been reading through this post planning what to say, but not much i can now!

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Natalie White — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:42:20 GMT

Bit random to only post this now, but thankfully my bunny made a full recovery!! He was back to normal within 2 weeks of posting on here. I realise it has been a while, but thanks again to you all for your help.

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Natalie White — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:52:55 GMT

Sorry, yes of course, I understand, sorry to put you in a difficult position. He's just so special I just want to do what is best for him. I really appreciate your advice, thank you.

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:45:42 GMT

I can't really advise a treatment for a bunny I haven't examined - I am just explaining common treatments. Generally speaking, if I suspected an infection, and couldn't do culture and sensitivity, then I'd probably have used daily penicillin or baytril. Daily.

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Natalie White — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:20:21 GMT

Ok, thank you for your advice. Do you think maybe Baytril would be better then? He seems bright and happy etc at mo.

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:30:06 GMT

[quote user="Natalie White"]Yeah currently bunny is on weekly Crystapen injections and daily Panacur. Think belt and braces treating e caniculi and middle ear infection[/quote]

Weekly crystapen is very unlikely to treat a middle ear infection - it would really need to be daily.

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Natalie White — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:06:34 GMT

Pps I just realised I didn't thank you all for your further input!

Thanks, much appreciated, and bunny says thanks too!!

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Natalie White — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:03:18 GMT

Ps haematolgy showed low leucocytes neutrophils but I'm guessing that maybe the steroids??! We couldn't get enough blood for biochemistry or the e caniculi test unfortunately.

His temp as far as I know has been normal (it was 39.3C last time he saw vet) though the first vet he saw didn't take temp

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Natalie White — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:59:27 GMT

Hmm, I've opened a real can of worms here hey!!

Yeah currently bunny is on weekly Crystapen injections and daily Panacur. Think belt and braces treating e caniculi and middle ear infection as he would respond to steroids and panacur but then go down hill again after 3 days of the steroid wearing off. He seems really bright and is eating etc. No signs of any problems gut wise, though I am conscious about the amount of drugs he is having I'm kinda at the mercy of the vets as I can only be guided by them. Really wanted some input as to what everyone here thought was the best way forward as I have heard such conflicting information!

I'm under the impression then that daily panacur for 28 days, plus baytril for 2 weeks plus or minus nsaids (though I know he has had steroid and the two are not to be mixed, the last dose being 5 days ago). Am I generally correct on this??!! Or do you think the Crystapen injs weekly are ok? I'm locuming at a place at the mo and the vet there decided on this regime. In hindsight I maybe was a bit hasty in not giving baytril enough time to work as I understand it can take a fair while to have any effect?!

His head tilt isn't too bad in that he seems to be coping remarkably well, I guess I could only describe it in that he looks like a human with a stiff neck would?!! He's not bent right over badly or anything but it doesn't seem to be improving, I think he is just learning to manage.

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

A Little TLC — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:41:28 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="A Little TLC"]Have given them amoxycillin with no problems.....[/quote]

Really? That is pretty unusual. Most literature advises using procaine penicillin rather than amoxycillin. Have you found it more effective? Have you had any GIT problems with its use?

[/quote]

they have always been absolutely fine. we would use it for rabbits caught by cats etc just to cover. obviously see a lot in wildlife hosp!! we would give probiotics once we stopped, and they were always quite happy, and no ill effects at all

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:20:20 GMT

[quote user="A Little TLC"]Have given them amoxycillin with no problems.....[/quote]

Really? That is pretty unusual. Most literature advises using procaine penicillin rather than amoxycillin. Have you found it more effective? Have you had any GIT problems with its use?

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:07:28 GMT

[quote user="Bouncyfi"]

As far I understand it, any antibiotics would kill off the "good" gut flora as they don't really care which bacteria they kill, which is why you should give a prebiotic along with antibiotics - although not given at the same time - should be given at least 2 hours post-administration of abs.

Penicillin used to be frowned upon in bunnies and (I think) given orally its toxic to them but given by subcut injections it is particularly useful in cases of abscess, syphillis etc

[/quote]

Absolutely - and I also use penicillins a lot for various reasons. They are good antibiotics in certain situations - especially cheesy abscesses!

I was actually asking for 2 reasons really-

-why use antibiotics at all? Does the vet suspect middle ear infections? If a rabbit has a severe 'deep' infection it rarely clears with antibiotics alone.

-why choose a penicillin? Especially crystapen (pennicillin G) at one injection weekly? That dosage regime is really only for treponema (syphilis). A bacterial infection - IF it is susceptible to that antibiotic - would usually need daily dosing. If you can get hold of the BSAVA small animal formulary (small spiral-bound 'drug book') - have a look under penicillin G. It will explain all!

Hope bunny gets better.

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

A Little TLC — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:08:02 GMT

Have given them amoxycillin with no problems.....

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Fiona Leathers — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:05:01 GMT

Penicillin used to be frowned upon in bunnies and (I think) given orally its toxic to them but given by subcut injections it is particularly useful in cases of abscess, syphillis etc

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Saskia Quinn — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:22:04 GMT

[quote user="Vicky C"]

[quote user="SaskiaVN"]

I was always taught that rabbits couldnt have 'white' antibiotics i.e. penicillin, as it interfered with the 'good' gut flora.

Has rabbit medicine changed since then? (Considering I am old school lolol)

[/quote]

I thought this too!

[/quote]

maybe Gillian will shed some light for us?

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Vicky RVN — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:20:48 GMT

[quote user="SaskiaVN"]

I was always taught that rabbits couldnt have 'white' antibiotics i.e. penicillin, as it interfered with the 'good' gut flora.

Has rabbit medicine changed since then? (Considering I am old school lolol)

[/quote]

I thought this too!

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Saskia Quinn — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:02:10 GMT

I was always taught that rabbits couldnt have 'white' antibiotics i.e. penicillin, as it interfered with the 'good' gut flora.

Has rabbit medicine changed since then? (Considering I am old school lolol)

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Natalie White — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:37:56 GMT

Think because the Baytril wasn't having much effect, though he'd only had 4 or 5 days by then, but I didn't like to argue!! Didn't realise you could give bunnies penicillin? It's all so confusing. I realise time, patience, perservering and just general nursing is key, but I'm wondering whether Baytril will be better or whether to stick with the weekly crystapen. The advantage of the crystapen is that I don't keep having to stress bunny by giving him baytril po bid, but I just want to do whatever is best for him really.

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:54:29 GMT

[quote user="Natalie White"]he's now had this crystapen injection and so I can't give him baytril[/quote]

There's no reason I can think of why he can't have both!

What reason has the vet given for using a penicillin?

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Natalie White — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:16:56 GMT

Ps he had bloods done on friday but they couldn't get much so only enough for haematology, so i'm not sure how much that is going to show us??

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Natalie White — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:14:01 GMT

Thank you all so very much for all your help. I've been a complete wreck this last couple of weeks. Poor bunny. He's such a special little man, he's a real dude!

I really appreciate everyone's help. Going to have to have a little think about what to do as the first vet I saw treated him with 4 seperate doses of steroid over a course of 10 days and started baytril half way through that, then I took him to another vet (I'm locuming at present and have moved away from my practice I know and trust :-( ) as I wasn't happy to let him have loads of steroid although it did appear to pick him up every time was really concerned it may immunosuppress him. The other vet transferred him on to Crystapen injections and he said he's to have one a week and he's now thankfully back on the panacur. However, I did ring my old practice who suggested the 28 days of panacur plus baytril and metacam. It's a nightmare as all 3 vets have said different! I'd be inclined to stick with my old colleague as I trust her but he's now had this crystapen injection and so I can't give him baytril. Grrr, it's blimmin awful as all I want to do is do the best for him and try and get him better.

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Jen — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:53:05 GMT

Love Lapizole! Soooo much easier to dose and the bunnies seem to like it better!

Re: Head tilt in bunnies

Emma Dillon — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:41:37 GMT

All the E.C. cases I've seen including my brother's bunny have been treated with 28 days panacur and anti inflams + supportive treatment if they've needed it i.e fluids/syringe feeds etc.

Not all of them have lost the head tilt but all of them have made it back to a reasonable quality of life including the one that couldn't evebn stand and had a bad eye ulcer where his head tilt had meant he's been lying with eye smooshed into the ground. (the eye ulcer took longer to heal than anything else!).

I know I've heard other nurses talk of PTS but not seen it myself, the bun-rays have always pulled through with intensive nursing.

Oh and the vets have always given any co-habitors of the affected buns a 28days precautionary treatment.

Good luck chick, hope your bun is all ok, its heart breaking when one of your own is poorly. xx