Dematts

Re: Dematts

Steph Phillips — Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:25:19 GMT

[quote user="SaskiaVN"]

[quote user="Steph Phillips"]

If people want their dogs grooming, we give out the number to a groomer we recommend - a vet nurse who is trained in grooming dogs!

.. if however.. people want their cat groomed (we get loads of long hair cats.. sure we've all seen the heavily matted back end types!!) vet recommends sedation. ..But we also recommend iv fluids and PA bloods prior to sedation. It is up to the client if they want fluids/bloods and they sign a consent from.

[/quote]

any particular reason why you would recommend iv fluids and pre anaesthetic prolfile prior to grooming?

[/quote]

as most of the cats who come for dematting are really old, some may have underlying problems so he (vet) recommends bloods to check kidney functions etc before sedation, and fluids to keep them hydrated - bloods / fluids are up to the owner, we offer it, they CAN decline it.. it's also a way of covering our butts, as we offer bloods/fluids to all other patients who have an anaesthetic!

Re: Dematts

Dodo bird — Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:19:19 GMT

we dematt ours using a sedative. I did a dematt on a really nice 5yr old cat yesterday but would of got really upset if i'd tried to do anything conscious as the matts were very tight and down to the skin. Got a new weightwatcher into the bargain as she was very overweight and had matts mostly due to not being able to reach round and groom herself . I felt i had done a worthwhile job and the client was pleased .

Re: Dematts

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:07:43 GMT

[quote user="Lilypads"]

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

Lily I understand what is involved with the induction of anaesthesia

[/quote]Nick did I ever say you didn't? I've never doubted anyone's GA advice, knowledge, understanding. please read whatever I said again. This place is like a mine field... u say something totally innocent or true to you and someone takes it as an attack... it's stupid. I've done it myself. We're all here for the same reason to discuss, debate, maybe argue about VNing but honestly Nick I wasn't trying to patronise you. You asked me what propofol? I answered how we use it! aggggggghhhhhhhhh

[/quote]

maybe the arghhhhhhhhhhhh was not a good idea? thta could be construid as antagonising.......... dont you think?

Re: Dematts

Avril Louise Jackson RVN — Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:02:37 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

Lily I understand what is involved with the induction of anaesthesia

Re: Dematts

Nick Shackleton — Sat, 29 Aug 2009 00:45:24 GMT

Lily I understand what is involved with the induction of anaesthesia

Re: Dematts

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Sat, 29 Aug 2009 00:41:45 GMT

[quote user="Lilypads"]the high fluid rate is recommended by the vet.[/quote]

not always the best bet.............. sorry but vets are not taught this in vet school....... well not greatly anyway, whereas VN's are taught this on a major scale,(again are you qualified?) and if you have a practice thats insists on it......... then best getting a nurse to work them out personally, that way there is no way of over perfusion...........ever! sorry but I am a bit of a fluid nerd, and take my fluids seriousy......... more seriously than the majority of vets I have worked with I have to say....... most are either bung it on fast or bung it on mediocre!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that gets my goat big time if I am honest

Re: Dematts

Avril Louise Jackson RVN — Sat, 29 Aug 2009 00:18:26 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

Just out of interest which Propofol do u use Lilypads, cos if your using the milky one with lipids in am sure it ain't reccommended for incremental use in kitty cats.........

taken from a chapter written by derek flaherty:

It (propofol) is less suitable for maintenance of anaesthesia in cats, since the feline liver is much slower at metabolising the drug.

[/quote] Hey Nick we use Vetofol to induce GA. When I said incremental propofol I meant to induce an appropriate plane of anaesthesia. I'm not very clear with what I say sometimes :/ Incremental prop has worked great for dogs for quick GA. With my cat I meant he wont be getting a TDK GA he'll be induced with vetofol and maintained as appropriate on gas and hopefully it'll be the quickest GA in the record books! Not booked him in yet :/ he's eating well and tooth not causing him problem physiological probs but he's got gingivitis round that tooth and it needs taking out. I'm so worried. Every week we GA animals over 15 and the vet in charge of my cat has proven to me to be the best but it's still a worry :/ I have a 20 year old cat who was a bit wobblya few weeks ago and i took her in for bloods and they were all perfect! she's on metacam now and break dancing in her spare time!

Re: Dematts

les punton — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:02:59 GMT

yeeaahhh i like to clip them too (lion clip is my fav) although once had complaint, owner wouldnt let us clip only groom, and the cat ended up quite patchy, owner complained because the cat wasnt 'neat' found out she was a hairdresser!

recommended that she do her cat then to prevent further problems! needless to say she was back agin a while later for another demat - i never done that cat again.

Re: Dematts

chris beasley — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:53:16 GMT

[

Did a partial dematt on a grumpy white cat in my nurse clinic this afternoon. Client was holding it at arms length so it did not bite her. Previously it had been done under sedative, but as they were a friend of our receptionist, I agreed to try it without.

I manage to clip the back and felt that it could get away with grooming the rest !

WRONG!

It lashed out and manged to get me! Full claw marks on Right hand.!

I very nicely told the client that I felt the cat had had enough and offered the choice of continuing the grooming at home or coming back next week when the cat had a chance to settle down!

What I really wanted to say was that you cannot even hold the cat and yet you expect me to dematt it and groom it , while you dont even deflea it(Crawing in fleas also) or brush once in a while! Why do we do it?

[

Re: Dematts

Sally Howe — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:57:07 GMT

I tell owners we are not a groomer so the cat will be shaved where necessary to keep the anaesthetic as short and safe as possible. Then THEY can start afresh and start grooming THEIR cat.

Re: Dematts

Kerry Spain — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:10:56 GMT

I'm not a fan of doing dematts, it really pees me off when owners drop them off and start asking for you not to shave them!

I'm like... erm no it gets shaved to cut the sedation time down weather you like it or not, if you don't like it then sling it!

Re: Dematts

Nick Shackleton — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:53:11 GMT

[quote user="Lilypads"]

[quote user="Lilypads"]was at an anaesthesia talk, and more cats actually die, not from anaesthesia overdose[/quote]

I also trust him not to overdose anaesthesia as it will be done with incremental propofol.... my cat don't wanna be like MJ!!

[/quote]

Just out of interest which Propofol do u use Lilypads, cos if your using the milky one with lipids in am sure it ain't reccommended for incremental use in kitty cats.........

taken from a chapter written by derek flaherty:

It (propofol) is less suitable for maintenance of anaesthesia in cats, since the feline liver is much slower at metabolising the drug.

Re: Dematts

Avril Louise Jackson RVN — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:24:00 GMT

[quote user="Lilypads"]was at an anaesthesia talk, and more cats actually die, not from anaesthesia overdose[/quote]

I also trust him not to overdose anaesthesia as it will be done with incremental propofol.... my cat don't wanna be like MJ!!

Re: Dematts

Avril Louise Jackson RVN — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:21:49 GMT

[quote user="STRVN"]

Hi Lilypads, are you a qualified vet nurse? just wonderd as I found the "high rate fluids " a bit disturbing.

I was at an anaesthesia talk, and more cats actually die, not from anaesthesia overdose, but overperfusion during ops.

[/quote]

Hi STRVN

the high fluid rate is recommended by the vet. My cat has slightly elevated renal parameters. He's on fortekor. I've never seen a cat die from the recommended rates of IV fluids by this vet and they recover very quickly within minutes of antisedan or cessation of iso if propfol induced. Never seen a cat die under his supervision unless euth obviously so I think I can trust what he's saying. He's a good vet

Re: Dematts

Avril Louise Jackson RVN — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:11:35 GMT

[quote user="STRVN"]

I had a guy on the phone today who asked ..........do you do dog grooming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Errrrrrrrrr no we are a vet surgery, not a bloody grooming parlour.arghhh some people!!!

[/quote]

we once had someone complain that we hadn't dematted their cat as neat as it had been done before. The vet lost his rag with owner ans said what u just said "we aren't a grooming parlour, our concern is anaesthetic is short as possible" These are the sort of people who bring their animals in "starved" and UGA it vomits food its been fed 1 hour previously, absolutely no idea

Re: Dematts

Avril Louise Jackson RVN — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:07:38 GMT

we had 7.5kg cat in for dematt today.... 7.5kg!!! Ridiculous. Was a satisfying job and kept her with a hat, socks and gloves on but if she wasn't so fat the anaesthetic (which was troublesome with long periods of apnoea, gave antisedan and let her become light but then she was breath holding!) wouldn't have been a requirement! I find it quite worrying how owners think an anaesthetic is an answer and they don't seem to listen to the concerns. I suppose we eat what we want and have choice but letting a cat get to 7.5kg. She has such dainty paws too! She's not meant to be that weight!

Re: Dematts

Kim Buckley — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:33:28 GMT

My friends practice have a groomer working for them and it works really well. Not only can the vets sedate naughty dogs and then get groomers to sort them out but also if the groomer notices any lumps or bumps then they can get the vet to check it out.

Re: Dematts

Mrs Dot Dot — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:08:33 GMT

Hi ST.... some practices do have a groomer attached to them/ working for them............

Re: Dematts

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:05:19 GMT

I had a guy on the phone today who asked ..........do you do dog grooming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Errrrrrrrrr no we are a vet surgery, not a bloody grooming parlour.arghhh some people!!!

Re: Dematts

Katie Tallett RVN MBVNA — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:48:47 GMT

[quote user="Kimbo1985"]

All the dematts we do are on animals who are grumpy and can't be done whilst awake. I quite enjoy a good dematt, well the ones where I can just shave it all off. Quite satisfying when the cat is just a big matt of fur. I would make a rubbish hairdresser!

[/quote]

know what you mean- i love those persians who leave with fluffy head/ tail/ legs but could do with a wooly jumper!! there is a reason my OH won't let me near his hair!!

Re: Dematts

Kim Buckley — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:14:45 GMT

Re: Dematts

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:16:25 GMT

Hi Lilypads, are you a qualified vet nurse? just wonderd as I found the "high rate fluids " a bit disturbing.

I was at an anaesthesia talk, and more cats actually die, not from anaesthesia overdose, but overperfusion during ops.

Re: Dematts

Nick Shackleton — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:58:45 GMT

[quote user="STRVN"]

We do dematts on pets that are cranky!!!!!!!!!!!! if they are not then sorry........... but I and my collegues are not the local grooming parlour!!!!!!!!!! I did not train to become a VN to do DEmatts.............period!!!!!

[/quote]

I totally agree with this! When I was in GP the only time we saw a dematt was when the local groomer arranged for one of her clients came to us for sedation she came along and did the dematt/groom whilst one of us nurses montiored the sedation.

The client paid us for the sedation and the groomer for her services

Re: Dematts

Avril Louise Jackson RVN — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:53:23 GMT

Totally agree. I can undrestand the problem some owners have with grooming their cats/dogs due to the animal's response to their owner grooming them or problems with the owner not being able to groom such as arthritis affecting fingers. There's many an elderly client bringing their cat in wanting us to groom him/her because they cannot physically do so. I can recognise the animal-owner problem. One of my cats, a old boy, has just started on Fortekor after blood showed slightly elevated renal parameters as he needs one tooth out (his 3 remaining teeth are amaizing!) but I can see very bad gingivitis around this tooth and I can see he is uncomfortable eating on that side of his mouth.

As a vet nurse I know statistically he should be ok with the anaesthetic if on high rate fluids and getting the tooth out now is better than in 2 years time. I know this is why he's not grooming himself properly as he's always been a good groomer. I tried to groom him tonight and he went mental!!! He tolerated his back and his head being groomed but they weren't the bits that needed doing!!

I've totally digressed... the client who brings her dogs for dematts/AGs emptied seemed genuinely disappointed that one of her dogs didn't receive a GA or any form of sedation. It's almost as if the client wants a drama and giving 3 dogs twice yearly GAs keeps the client going. It's odd behaviour. I agree with the dog groomer suggestions, I really think my time could be better spent than clipping a dog that sits there perfectly! I wonder if it's like Munchausens? No matter how many times we suggest dog groomers client brings dogs back to us.

Has anybody used zoom groom for their own cat? :) I'm determined to dematt my own cat conscious. I got loads out of him tonight until I touched his sides then he decided I was attackable!

Re: Dematts

Mrs Dot Dot — Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:23:11 GMT

I enjoy dematting under g/a... would prefer them under g/a and tubed rather than sedated..... we also offer blds and fluids.... some O's do it, some don't. I find I am quicker when they are under g/a rather than worrying about the sedation wearing off.

Could never be a groomer tho... do not have the patience!

Also have regular older cats that come in for nurse consults and we regularly clip off a few matts or however many they will tolerate and then the O's bring them back again in 4-6 wks etc for another go... it saves them repeatedly having a g/a/sedate.