Staff Pets

Re: Staff Pets

Sal the 1st — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:23:01 GMT

yes have come across the sandwich one before - however if the staff meeting took place during a lunch break and the staff attended the meeting instead of taking their lunch break off it isnt taxable so I was told.

Gillian has already mentioned the big one that I have always tried to make people aware of - 'Free accomodation above the practice is not 'free' it is taxed as benefits in kind, if you are in this situation be very sure that a 'value' is decided between you and your employer or you could find yourself stung big time when you leave the job.

Same employer as the 20 pound gift voucher - I was paid the same as an unqualified nurse even tho I was qualified and had 20+ years experience because I had a practice flat. This was never at any time put in writing and when I left the place I found I had a huge underpayment to make up for - the IR did not accept that my wages had been lower because of the flat and I had nothing in writing to prove it, and there was no way on earth my ex boss was going to own up. I would have been better off (considerably better off) if I had been paid a qualifieds rate and sorted out the bills myself (but my boss already knew this from all the other nurses that had worked there and lived in the flat - hence the generous offer - BEWARE

Re: Staff Pets

Helen Freer — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:31:16 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Income tax is paid on wages or any benefits you get from your job. If you got accommodation as part of your salary then the IL would work out how much that is actually worth and charge you income tax on that amount. Same goes for a company car, fuel provided or any other perks. In the same way, if you get something 'free' from work (and getting a product at cost+VAT, or free fees, is 'free' as the business has received no income from it) then officially it is a perk - and as such, is subject to income tax. I suppose if someone had a lot of pets, and chose to be partially 'paid' with free vet treatment, then they could get away with a lot less income tax being paid.

I'm not saying I think you should all be rushing to pay more tax - just that those are the rules and you can end up in prison for income tax evsion - just ask Al Capone!!

[/quote]

On a slight variation I was talking with my Solicitor this week and they had been told by the IR that they should have deducted tax on sandwiches they provided to their staff at staff meetings as this was a benefit in kind!! and so should be treated at part of the staffs taxable income. So if they can complain about that goodness only knows what they would think about free/ cost treatment.

Re: Staff Pets

Sal the 1st — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:03:58 GMT

I ended up paying tax on a 20 pound giftvoucher which was given me by my boss for Christmas (even tho the vouchers had originally come from I think Petplan and the boss hadnt paid for them but told the tax office she had)

Re: Staff Pets

Fiona Leathers — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:21:07 GMT

Uuuummmmm I'm sure Al Capone killed people too but his lawyers were so clever tax evasion was all they could get him on! Maybe not the best likeness! Perhaps Lester Piggott??

Re: Staff Pets

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:44:43 GMT

You are mixing up VAT and income tax

VAT is something we all have to pay when purchasing a product - if the boss just charged cost then he would still pay the VAT so it would have cost him money for you having bought that product! However, as you have said, if the product you buy is for business use and not personal use,. then you can claim the VAT back from the IL.

I'm not saying I think you should all be rushing to pay more tax - just that those are the rules and you can end up in prison for income tax evsion - just ask Al Capone!!

Re: Staff Pets

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:07:33 GMT

[quote user="Lilypads"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Another thing to remember is that is you get something free, or just at cost, then officially that counts as part of your wage (benefits in kind) and you should be declaring it as part of your wage - and be taxed on it! I'm not sure if any vets have been audited by the Inland Revenue but I wouldn't be surprised!! Therefore we charge our nurses cost + VAT + 10% As long as they are charged something extra, then you are clear! Could be relevant in a large practice as the total yearly staff bill could be massive!

[/quote]

I don't understand how it counts as part of your wageand why it would be your responsibility to inform inlnad revenue. Your wage is what you are paid to work. I have friends who work for major companies who get a staff discount and they don't have to report anything to the inland revenue. Eg. one friend manager of men's section for berwin and berwin at kendals, she gets 15% discount. She doesn't have to report anything to inland revenue. It's up to the employer to report their ingoings and outgoings. Wages and allowances (petrol etc) are separate from benefits I thought?

[/quote]

Basically what I was saying, if you are paying cost plus vat, then no need to claim it as part of a wage as you have paid the vat........ you could claim back the 15% markup you paid, but if you pay cost plus vat then there is no need to claim........ if employers do a markup....... then THEY are claiming it back, instead of you are they not?, and if they are, presuming that employees claim on their wages for things like that, then thats underhand IMO especially if they are not saying that the employeee can claim that back............but please correct me if I have the wrong end of the stick????

Personally I claim everything as a locum right down to the stamps I buy.

Re: Staff Pets

Avril Louise Jackson RVN — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:43:55 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[/quote]

Re: Staff Pets

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:28:17 GMT

Hmmmm, would it not just be better for the vet to charge cost plus vat, that way the unsuspecting nurse, would not need to hassle with "claiming it back" if she actually knew she could claim it back that is? I never knew either that /food for your dog/cat was claimable???? I dont think anyone gets things just at cost??? if you pay the vat then surely there is nothing to pay? so no need for the markup!

Just a suggestion, as I bought new uniforms, through my locum, and THEY are claiming the tax back instead of me......... as they have already paid the company........ small pence you might say but every little helps in my book!

Re: Staff Pets

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:18:34 GMT

Re: Staff Pets

Lisa Whitehouse — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:38:45 GMT

i worked for an insurance company not so long back & we had a vet claim for treatment, if i remeber rightly it was just the drugs as they had stated that they dont charge themselves cons fees but they just didnt get it that someone else in the practice had to sign the declaration re fees etc...also had nurses stating similar so think in general most vet staff are honest when completeing forms.

Re: Staff Pets

hobbits — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:27:32 GMT

Hannah, honestly your post just made me think. While Petplan etc probably wouldnt have a problem with it and would take it as the other posters have, I am not sure supermarkets policies and a notorious equine insurance provider would do the same. I hadnt really thought about it before - not that I have ever had occasion to do it - but it could perhaps be taken as increased fees. While they arent higher than what would be charged to some clients, they are higher than what would be charged to THAT client if the pet werent insured. Interesting..

Re: Staff Pets

Louise B — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:27:53 GMT

[quote user="Kimbo1985"]I think insurance companies give veterinary staff a discount because they are unlikely to claim for anything unless it's a major problem unlike a lot of clients who try to claim for everything. [/quote]

Other than Petplan, which insurance companies give nurses discounts?

Re: Staff Pets

Kim Buckley — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:08:11 GMT

Surely the part where it says "the fees are no higher than would normally charge" means that extra cost hasn't been added just because the dog is insured, not to do with staff discount. There is nothing in the insurance contract saying anything about veterinary staff and discounts. I think insurance companies give veterinary staff a discount because they are unlikely to claim for anything unless it's a major problem unlike a lot of clients who try to claim for everything. For example both my dogs are insured but I've never claimed for anything because with my discount at work it just isnt worth the hassle.

Re: Staff Pets

Hannah25uk — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:45:25 GMT

I'm not saying i do it cos I don't agree with it either but i was just wondering how often it happens in practice.

Re: Staff Pets

hobbits — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:34:16 GMT

[quote user="Hannah25uk"]

How many of you with insured pets get discount from insurance companies for working at a vets but still claim full amount even though you would have had it discounted if you hadn't been insured if that makes sense?

[/quote]

dont want to be cynical (sorry Hannah, am having a bad time with being screwed over) but I would be careful about having this information on a public forum. If you would normally get discount but claim full prices on insurance, then the person signing the form stating the fees are no higher than would normally charge (in the small print on several ins forms where the vet/nurse signs) is technically lying. and therefore committing fraud if the insurance companies wanted to be funny - as the staff would normally be charged just a fraction of what the ins company is charged.

Re: Staff Pets

loobylou — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:00:10 GMT

Forgot to add all vaccines free except rabies! Consult fees free if not on ins claim.

Re: Staff Pets

Kerry Brennand DipAVN (Surgical) RVN A1 MBVNA — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:14:20 GMT

Thanks for all your replies....keep them coming

Re: Staff Pets

FINNIGAN — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:04:17 GMT

drugs,flea tx and wormers etc at cost and ops and minors at 50%

Re: Staff Pets

Fleabee99 — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:15:55 GMT

we get drugs at cost i think, as far as i know no consult fees as i just shove my pet rat in one of the vets face when they arent busy and they dont mind, ops and xrays etc not sure but prolly at cost i think as they are really good

Re: Staff Pets

Avril Louise Jackson RVN — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:10:15 GMT

We get a £350 allowance on fees for ops/consults and the consult fees are reduced. So any ops/consults we've had £350 gets taken off bill every year. This doesn't go very far with me as have 6 cats and 2 springers (and my springers are particularly prone to getting into springer type situations... cut ears, ripped claws, pancreatitis, ag probs! etc).

All drugs and food we pay at cost price which is good as one cat on fortekor. My springers are insured and one of my cats is insured. I got discount from my insurance company for working at vets.

Re: Staff Pets

loobylou — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:39:39 GMT

Food, wormers and flea treatments at 20% off, other pom drugs usually full price so I usually get off online pharmacy
Any insured animals are charged out at full the practice pays excess and do direct claims.
Non insured animals are negotiable! Usually charged 50% of normal service fees.

Re: Staff Pets

Laura Ringsell — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:08:16 GMT

same as most = cost + vat for anything and everything for my own and no limit on number of pets. Mine are insured so if it is something claimable then it goes through at full cost but the boss pays the excess.

Re: Staff Pets

Hannah25uk — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:59:57 GMT

Re: Staff Pets

Nick Shackleton — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:16:49 GMT

in the same position as frog and cat mad! If the pet is insured full price. but every day stuff like cat food n that its cost plus VAT

Re: Staff Pets

Steph Worsley — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:10:00 GMT

Cos of where I am it all depends, if our pets are insured we charge up full minus 15%, if they are not insured it all depends on each area (anaesthesia/lab/imaging etc) we tend to get a 75% discount on most things though