Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Avril Louise Jackson RVN — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:35:43 GMT

Heather!!! :) When we having the reunion? It's Av!!

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Nick Shackleton — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:56:04 GMT

Well Paula in the last 7 and half years I seen more hemis than you've had hot dinners lol

But on a serious note I personally agree with the above at the end of the day we dont have enough nurses to allow two nurses ie one to monitor and one to perform! The most we do is suture at the end. Althou we do get to scrub in with procedures. I have drilled the odd screw hole and placed a screw!

And with the new regulatons coming into effect we need to be able to justify why we do a certain procedure instead of a capable vet from doing it! I personally prefere to nurse, do radiography and scrub in to the odd surgery now and then.

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Heather Dixon — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:07:12 GMT

I agree!

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Sal the 1st — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 09:43:42 GMT

I agree with the last post - I used to do a lot of schedule 3 ( and I mean a lot!) but I got really fed up with being giving stitch ups etc as if they were some kind of 'treat' because the vet didnt want to do them and then still having my own workload to do. ie multiple superficial but deep enough for sutures wounds on a Mastiff which took ages so that the vet could go and watch the footie and then when I had finished with the 'treat' I got to do all the cleaning etc as well

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Avril Louise Jackson RVN — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:27:08 GMT

[quote user="Emma Kerry"]

True, but I think as long as you are sensible it should be ok. As long as nothing you do enters a body cavity as we define it there should be few issues. Skin lumps, grass seeds in paws etc are all ok for us to do. If the vet trusts you to do it then in most cases there should be no problem. It all has to be under the vets care whatever - so they have to trust you to do these things!

[/quote]

But with the new regulations regarding VNs being responsible for their own actions this area becomes even more worrying.

I'm happy to asssist in surgery and have done things beyond my realm/been taught on the job during many orthopaedic ops and a particularly spectacular nephrotomy (where the f**k is the aortic!!) I took great pleasure in being part of a team and I was always under the vet's supervision. I can see how it could be fulfilling to amuptate a tail but we haven't actually been trained to do this and if there is a vet there to do it then maybe we can get on with nursing! Yes a vet might show you how to amputate a tail and I've seen many tail amputations and I think I could confidently do one... but it's not my job to do this! There can't be many practices that have nurse doing ops with another nurse monitoring the GA while the vets have a cuppa! Dont we do enough?!!!

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Saskia Quinn — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:29:27 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

[quote user="louise chappell"]

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

[quote user="Maisy"]

Agree! When I see those vessels pulsating away when the vets are merrily carrying out a thyroidectomy removes the procedure from being minor imo!

[/quote]

If we're allowed to do a thyroidectomy cos it's not entering a body cavity. I'm off to do fracture repaire lol

[/quote]

Lol nick can I watch!!!

[/quote]

And after that I'm gonna do a hemilaminectomy! How hard can it be!!!!

[/quote]

hehehehehehehe Nick!!! What are you like lolololol

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

dinkyd — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 15:32:12 GMT

LOL nice one hehe

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Nick Shackleton — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 15:16:35 GMT

[quote user="louise chappell"]

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

[quote user="Maisy"]

Agree! When I see those vessels pulsating away when the vets are merrily carrying out a thyroidectomy removes the procedure from being minor imo!

[/quote]

If we're allowed to do a thyroidectomy cos it's not entering a body cavity. I'm off to do fracture repaire lol

[/quote]

Lol nick can I watch!!!

[/quote]

And after that I'm gonna do a hemilaminectomy! How hard can it be!!!!

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

louiseRVN — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:47:16 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

[quote user="Maisy"]

Agree! When I see those vessels pulsating away when the vets are merrily carrying out a thyroidectomy removes the procedure from being minor imo!

[/quote]

If we're allowed to do a thyroidectomy cos it's not entering a body cavity. I'm off to do fracture repaire lol

[/quote]

Lol nick can I watch!!!

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Anonymous — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:49:24 GMT

I rang the RCVS about this, and actually we've NEVER been allowed to do cat castrations (although it used to be commonplace for nurses to do them), as it apparently does involve entering a body cavity - the inguinal cavity. I was quick to tell the person on the line I've never done one!!

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Kerry Spain — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:11:26 GMT

the wording is non-specific and as evasive as ever... happy days

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Nick Shackleton — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 09:56:12 GMT

[quote user="Maisy"]

Agree! When I see those vessels pulsating away when the vets are merrily carrying out a thyroidectomy removes the procedure from being minor imo!

[/quote]

If we're allowed to do a thyroidectomy cos it's not entering a body cavity. I'm off to do fracture repaire lol

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

dinkyd — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:03:37 GMT

Lol yea that jugular happily pulsing away - im stressed just monitoring the anaesthesia never mind the vet lol!

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Maisy — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:51:37 GMT

Agree! When I see those vessels pulsating away when the vets are merrily carrying out a thyroidectomy removes the procedure from being minor imo!

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Nick Shackleton — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:10:14 GMT

[quote user="jan"]

Re thyroidectomy the act says minor surgery. I would not call a thyroidectomy minor

[/quote]

This is tru!

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

jan — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:00:00 GMT

Re thyroidectomy the act says minor surgery. I would not call a thyroidectomy minor

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Nick Shackleton — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:14:00 GMT

[quote user="Corrie Meanwell"]

I thought we were only allowed to scale and polish teeth! Remove lumps , as long as not going into a body cavity, place i/v catheters ect.

Just not sure on the drug thing??? I have heard we can't give to effect drugs? any ideas any one??

[/quote]

Incremental doses of anaesthesia can not be preformed by a VN, whereas calculated doses ie Domitor can be administered by VNs

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

louiseRVN — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:03:10 GMT

[quote user="clairek83"]

The PDSA are quite strict with regards to what nurses can and cannot do so whatever they let u do lou is prob right - as long as ur not entering the abdominal cavity etc etc etc.

[/quote]

Yeah thats what I presumed they are very strict, we are not allowed to give propofol, which I now know as beng correct, However, if the vets had there way............

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Claire Kellett RVN — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:13:05 GMT

The PDSA are quite strict with regards to what nurses can and cannot do so whatever they let u do lou is prob right - as long as ur not entering the abdominal cavity etc etc etc.

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

louiseRVN — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:10:09 GMT

Its very scary doing them and I always want a vet ther when I do them but I do find it a very rewarding part of the job!.

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

S-J — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:21:05 GMT

[quote user="louise chappell"]

I thought that we were not allowed to remove any lumps now, or that was what I was told. I have done, tail tip amputations, toe and ear amputations and aural haematomas at the PDSA, luckily I have worked with vets which are willing to let me do them. I imagine these are ok, but I agree its confusing as its not set rules it is all in the vets disgretion.

[/quote]

i would love to do some of that, we dont do any schedule 3 work

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:18:07 GMT

[quote user="spud x"]

what i find worrying is that we can not do a cat castrate any more as enters body cavity but we can do a thyroidectomy as that does not enter body cavity. I know which I would rather do and it aint the thyroid!!

[/quote]

I have never heard about thyroidectomy, and would be dubious about that being true, you are afterall entering a cavity by opening up the throat area.

AS far as I know and was always led to believe, we can remove lumps, tails, toes etc, as this is not entering a cavity, we are allowed to remove teeth if it can be done without using an instument ie if its so slack you can pick it out. We can place i/v lines and take bloods as well as iv medications, as long as its not anaesthesia,due to the cause of effect of the anaesthesia.

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Anonymous — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:26:21 GMT

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

Corrie Dean RVN — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:08:04 GMT

I thought we were only allowed to scale and polish teeth! Remove lumps , as long as not going into a body cavity, place i/v catheters ect.

Just not sure on the drug thing??? I have heard we can't give to effect drugs? any ideas any one??

Re: Schedule 3 , what can we do??

les punton — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:56:05 GMT

very grey area, i read somwhere about us doing dentals, that we can remove teeth as long as we didnt use an instrument!

How ridiculous