What do you think about Superdrug retail staff being paid more than vet nurses?

RE: Disappointed

Louise Buckley — Tue, 24 Sep 2024 21:32:44 GMT

I haven't a clue re: membership to be honest. It has been going for awhile now though.

RE: Disappointed

tessa — Tue, 24 Sep 2024 19:17:18 GMT

Wow thanks for sharing. How interesting.

I notice they are affiliated with unite the union then. I wonder how many vets/ vet nurses are members or what percentage of vet/nurse staff they represent.

RE: Disappointed

Louise Buckley — Tue, 24 Sep 2024 18:38:10 GMT

All the more reason then to consider supporting the veterinary trail blazers - the Valley Vets strike. https://bvu.org.uk/valley-vets-update-5/ Vet Partners are currently holding out against the staff and this may be because they don't want the precedent set for strikes succeeding - while on the other side you have a team that in fighting for better pay, etc are also going to potentially set that precedent.

Donating one day's pay to the cause helps the staff to continue to strike.

RE: Disappointed

tessa — Tue, 24 Sep 2024 11:58:16 GMT

It could also have an element of there being a lot more money and scope in human medicine as opposed to animal health/veterinary medicine?

I would also guess that as human nursing starts in NHS there are set pay grade/scales, NHS get poached to private sector as its more lucrative, however in the NHS most people will be members of unions who will negotiate rates of pay/changes to pay and or any other changes to remuneration and other working practices :-)

Historically were the BVNA meant to act essentially as the vet nurse union? If the BVNA don't then a sufficient number of nurses i guess would need to join a union eg unite the union so that they can be represented. However in this day and age union representation has been slowly removed from the workplace to the employers benefit and most employees don't know that they can become a member of a union if they want or indeed what a union can do for them :-)

RE: Disappointed

Charlotte Rydz — Tue, 24 Sep 2024 11:46:54 GMT

And it is because we love our jobs that it carries on, no doubt.

I have noticed the trend in practices hiring ANAs over RVNs too. I think it’s fabulous that there are nursing assistant qualification and roles now, because they are a great part of a team. It’s sad that practices are using them as a way to save money though.

RE: Disappointed

Charlotte Rydz — Tue, 24 Sep 2024 11:41:22 GMT

I totally understand. Like you I’m not saying they don’t deserve that rate of pay. I’ve not seen this advert I imagine the pay is good and inline for the role. Or maybe they deserve a bit more even?

The problem certainly lies with the rate of pay in veterinary. It certainly does not reflect the effort, expertise, shift patterns and I could go on! I’ve seen human nurse roles for positions with much better conditions for much higher salaries than vet nurse roles. This has never made any sense to me.

RE: Disappointed

Selena Carnell — Tue, 17 Sep 2024 17:42:41 GMT

Well that escalated whilst i was away! Nurses are still underutilised in so many practices, I'm lucky that where i am we are trusted and given good job satisfaction, but we could do so much more, but again limited by the what the RCVS deems appropriate. CDP is so expensive if your practice doesn't help fund things. Some Vets deem us as trying to be mini vets but we could lighten the work load.

I have always been aware that i would never be well paid, and i am lucky I do love my job even with a knackered back and ageing knees!

RE: Disappointed

Clare Espley — Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:04:55 GMT

You are not alone in feeling disappointed with this, I have felt for a long time that RVNs are very underpaid for the work we do and the extra qualifications don't seem to help with the rate of pay at all.

Something does need to change. Some RVNs don't earn enough to be self supporting, it's maybe not so not so bad if you live with a partner and have an extra income, but if like me, you find yourself single with a child to support, it gets very difficult. I really love my work and that is what has kept me in nursing but it is getting to the point where the pay increases in my job (I obviously cant speak for what other nurses are getting paid in other parts of the country) are barely keeping up with costs of living for me and soon I may not be able to afford to be veterinary nursing.

It feels like the veterinary industry does not care that it is losing brilliant qualified nurses to better paid jobs because there is always a student nurse ready to take their place.

I don't know what the solution to this is, because if practices pay staff more, they have to increase costs to the clients, some of whom can barely afford the vets fees as it is.

RE: Disappointed

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 17 Sep 2024 07:15:04 GMT

Thanks Jo! Jo Hobbs

RE: Disappointed

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 17 Sep 2024 06:56:27 GMT

[quote userid="38681" url="~/f/nonclinical-discussions/32541/disappointed/178876#178876"]Apologises, as it was not my intention to cause such waves of grief amongst us.[/quote]

Do not apologise in the slightest! These things happen from time to time. Wasn't your fault, and this has highlighted something which I think IS important and which I have been encouraging for some time - the important of transparency ... so can I ask you (and everyone else) to display your real name! There is nothing to fear in so doing, when all we are here to do is help each other. And as far as I can see, you have never posted anything less than polite and helpful

RE: Disappointed

Jo Hobbs — Tue, 17 Sep 2024 06:27:58 GMT

Apologises, as it was not my intention to cause such waves of grief amongst us.

And, to Arlo for arbitrating the comments so well.
Have a great day

RE: Disappointed

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 16 Sep 2024 22:17:42 GMT

Hey all,

I have deleted this rest of the posts on this thread because it was just getting ill-tempered.

apache not the first time that your forthright views (and in this case rather patronising remarks) have pissed people off. That is unhelpful both for the community and for me personally.

I think your remarks have forced the issue and yes, everyone should display their real names for most posts (and use the anon account if they want to ask advice about a sensitive issue).

Displaying real names helps give posts context, which is important in a scientific discussion. It also fosters better manners. And yeah, if someone is going to call into question your 'attitude' they should not do it from behind a veil of anonymity. That is not fair.

So lets run with that now.

Apache, if you want to post again, either re-register and display your real name if you don't want it associated with historical posts (or you can just update your account now).

Or, given you say the site is not very relevant to you any more, you might also decide just to call it a day.

kazrussell2002 I hope that reassures you.

And Jo Hobbs

RE: Disappointed

kazrussell2002 — Sat, 14 Sep 2024 18:12:25 GMT

If it helps when I was working in Ambulance Control I was on 20000 a year in 2019. Listening to the most tragic calls, delivering CPR, being responsible for accurately recording locations and deciding priority symptoms. When I left to return to vet nursing it was at about 27000 (antisocial allowance as 12 hr shifts and working weekends and nights) in 2023 I think only the pandemic led to the increase in pay. I am now on a similar pay scale after returning to nursing, regular shift pattern, different skills and lots of cleaning. I sometimes wonder where I was better placed as now I don't have much free time. After only returning to nursing last July 2023 I am back in the running to work this time in fire control which has a top salary of 35000 but will I get as much job satisfaction? Lots of tough decisions but I feel your pain.

RE: Disappointed

Charley83 — Fri, 13 Sep 2024 15:30:59 GMT

yep Bus drivers in my area starting pay is £15 an hour

RE: Disappointed

Jo Hobbs — Wed, 11 Sep 2024 22:34:22 GMT

Absolutely, agree with nurses freeing up vets time where possible (for our own sanity if nothing else). to increase income, as this will hopefully lead to clients having a greater understanding of our skill set as well.

I believe that "just because we can, doesn't mean we should" can be applicable in some cases, and that identifying individual patient needs is critical to providing dedicated nursing care.

RE: Disappointed

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 11 Sep 2024 10:24:41 GMT

[quote userid="2368" url="~/f/nonclinical-discussions/32541/disappointed/178844#178844"]I've even seen Costa offering a wage not that much less than I'm being paid.[/quote]

Jeepers.

[quote userid="2368" url="~/f/nonclinical-discussions/32541/disappointed/178844#178844"]Don't get me wrong I love my job but there is still a huge pay issue and i know many practices employing ANAs as they are cheaper than RVN's.[/quote]

Well I guess that depends on the view that the practice has taken on the commercial value of a vet nurse. If they don't delegate much, and just have you mopping floors, then, well, sure, you're going to want to pay the least you can.

But it's no good railing at the unfairness. You have to make the case for doing things differently and paying more, showing how it will result in a net benefit.

The two obvious things here are whether delegating certain tasks can free up vets to do more, and therefore increase profit.

It would be great to have some case studies of where that has happened. If anyone had one, I would certainly help push them!

Second (as I said above), I wonder if there is a discussion to be had about the value to the patient/owner of high cost equipment and diagnostics vs good, old-fashioned, dedicated nursing.

I don't know (not being a vet and all), what do you think?

Are there examples of particular clinical situations where you think the patient would have benefited more from a really high standard of nursing care than on whether they had some rarified diagnostic or treatment.

And when I talk about a high standard of nursing care, I mean that to encompass the support you give to owners.

One example: would the dog with cancer be better served by nurses working with the owner to give the best palliative care, or put through a linear accelerator.

This may be a bad example, and I am sure it is not usually as clear cut as treatment vs care, but I hope you take my point.

What do you think?

RE: Disappointed

Jo Hobbs — Tue, 10 Sep 2024 18:25:51 GMT

Yes we did Selena

It’s definitely made harder when it’s just down to you to pay all the bills and you’re at an age when people expect you to be financially secure …

RE: Disappointed

Oldgal — Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:11:45 GMT

This is one reason I left clinical practice for research. As an academic my pay is good and full time is 35 hours, no weekends, no on call.

RE: Disappointed

Selena Carnell — Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:01:08 GMT

My 19 yr old son is getting more than me per hour working on a farm driving tractors. with only gcse qualifications. He is doing long working days though and working most weekends.

I've even seen Costa offering a wage not that much less than I'm being paid.

Don't get me wrong I love my job but there is still a huge pay issue and i know many practices employing ANAs as they are cheaper than RVN's.

I think Jo and me were in college together!

RE: Disappointed

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 10 Sep 2024 12:48:27 GMT

[quote userid="38681" url="~/f/nonclinical-discussions/32541/disappointed"]Hi all, now feeling deflated as I have just seen a job advertised in Superdrug for retail staff that are getting paid more per/hr than myself, and no doubt a lot of others.[/quote]

Jo Hobbs

Not surprised you're feeling deflated. Very demoralising to see that.

But I wonder whether the issue of pay in the profession is less (these days) about the idea of it being a vocation, and more because as a general rule, managers, owners and directors of veterinary practices have decided to invest more in infrastructure, equipment and diagnostics than in people.

Maybe that is wrong, but it is my theory at least. I mean when I look at the VAST amounts of money spent on the latest thing with lots of flashing lights, MRI, linear accelerators etc., I do wonder whether that was the right decision, and whether it would be better to get back to basics and pay veterinary staff better for providing a more basic level of care to the highest standard.