Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 20 Apr 2022 08:58:36 GMT

[quote userid="4718" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-veterinary-practice/32304/do-pet-owners-need-or-deserve-confidentiality-in-their-dealings-with-a-vet/177725#177725"]One example that does come to mind is protecting my information from illegal or immoral use. What if someone got hold of information pertaining to my treatment of my dog, disagreed with it and started a campaign of harassment? What if someone got hold of this information and decided to market their products to me? What if someone got hold of this information and used it to steal my dog? [/quote]

I think we're talking about slightly different things. I'm talking about the requirement for confidentiality as in the CoPC, as opposed to data protection.

My particular point about confidentiality is that when owners spout off on social media, it should be possible to call them out (politely) without fear of breaking client confidentiality.

Data concerning location of dog, or marketing preferences is something a bit different, though I do wonder whether it would be in patient's best interests if treatment histories were 'open source' within the profession.

Because I'm interested in what you think, not the RCVS!!!

[quote userid="4718" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-veterinary-practice/32304/do-pet-owners-need-or-deserve-confidentiality-in-their-dealings-with-a-vet/177725#177725"]at the end of the day, as long as I am not breaking the law or causing hurt or distress to anything or anyone, my business is nobody else’s business. [/quote]

Fair enough ... we all have different expectations about privacy and the need for it.

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Wed, 20 Apr 2022 08:42:08 GMT

Like I said, perhaps it’s just a sensibility. One example that does come to mind is protecting my information from illegal or immoral use. What if someone got hold of information pertaining to my treatment of my dog, disagreed with it and started a campaign of harassment? What if someone got hold of this information and decided to market their products to me? What if someone got hold of this information and used it to steal my dog? Why don’t you direct your query to the RCVS? Like I said, perhaps it’s just a cultural sensibility - but at the end of the day, as long as I am not breaking the law or causing hurt or distress to anything or anyone, my business is nobody else’s business.

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 20 Apr 2022 08:01:31 GMT

But James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN, surely for something to be reasonable, it must have a reason! What is it about the treatment of animals that provides the reason for requiring confidentiality?

I thought for a second that perhaps you might have a point about costs, except my builder doesn't sign up to an oath of confidentiality, and I spend more with him.

And I'm not sure I quite get why anthropomorphism provides a reason for confidentiality. Just because I think a dog is a member of the family is not in and of itself a reason for confidentiality about whether it was wormed, or spaded (sic).

[quote userid="4718" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-veterinary-practice/32304/do-pet-owners-need-or-deserve-confidentiality-in-their-dealings-with-a-vet/177723#177723"]But my point was that I feel it should be contractual, and work both ways. I.e if one party breaks it, they have forfeited their own right to it. [/quote]

I do agree that if one party breaks confidentiality, they should forfeit the right to it, but I suspect it would be difficult to police because there are degrees of sensitivity of what is shared.

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Tue, 19 Apr 2022 22:12:55 GMT

Ah but I didn’t say that it requires confidentiality or that it served animal welfare, just that it seems reasonable and certainly something I would expect especially with the vast sums of money involved and the fact that our pets are as good as family members to us, if not more. Perhaps it’s just a weird cultural sensibility. But my point was that I feel it should be contractual, and work both ways. I.e if one party breaks it, they have forfeited their own right to it.

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 19 Apr 2022 07:28:17 GMT

James, can I ask why you think it is reasonable. Genuinely interested. I can't figure out why treatment of a dog requires confidentiality, or indeed how that confidentiality serves animal welfare?

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Sat, 16 Apr 2022 20:57:53 GMT

Yes keep the confidentiality clause, it's reasonable enough but amend it to work both ways, or if a client decides to make a testimony on a public forum they have forfeited that agreement.

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:34:41 GMT

[quote userid="60272" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-veterinary-practice/32304/do-pet-owners-need-or-deserve-confidentiality-in-their-dealings-with-a-vet/177715#177715"]I've never thought about it before, but pets aren't going to suffer harm to their relationships / careers / mental health by anyone finding out their medical history. Isn't it actually more harmful to keep it confidential? Right now I can't think of anyone it benefits but neglectful / abusive owners and dodgy breeders.[/quote]

My thoughts zigactly

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

Cyonica — Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:29:31 GMT

I guess we just copied it from human medicine? I've never thought about it before, but pets aren't going to suffer harm to their relationships / careers / mental health by anyone finding out their medical history. Isn't it actually more harmful to keep it confidential? Right now I can't think of anyone it benefits but neglectful / abusive owners and dodgy breeders.

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 24 Mar 2022 10:56:07 GMT

[quote userid="30516" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-veterinary-practice/32304/do-pet-owners-need-or-deserve-confidentiality-in-their-dealings-with-a-vet/177707#177707"]My mental health Nurse and My Gynecology consultant should feel free to share my info and pics without my permission or knowledge.[/quote]

jenni99 There's a big difference between sharing the worming regime for a dog, and sharing a humans mental heath details, or the intimate details of their genitalia.

Not sure I quite understand your point. I googled Henrietta Lacks. Hadn't heard of her before. Very interesting, so thanks for that.

I see a researcher took some cancerous cells without her permission or knowledge, and that has led to some important scientific discoveries.

That seems to argue that the case that it IS good to share clinical info from humans!

Coming back to the veterinary world, I would argue that if you tied veterinary records to microchips and made them open access,

a) It would have a positive effect on animal welfare. No delay in treatment whilst records are transferred. Transparency over history. Better decision making.

b) At a time when veterinary professionals are under such huge pressure, think of the time saved up and down the country chasing medical records, and wasting time checking whether they are breaching confidentially by, for example, responding to a police enquiry.

Meanwhile, I drafted a stock reply to a complaint on Facebook. Any thoughts anyone?

Dear first name

We’re so sorry you’re not happy with us. Genuinely. An unhappy client makes us unhappy too.

In any disagreement, both sides may have a different interpretation or recollection of events.

To make things more difficult, veterinary treatment is often complex and administered at a time when emotions are running high.

In our opinion, Facebook is not a good place to resolve any kind of disagreement.

It’s a polarising, argumentative platform.

It’s also not suited to discussing complex subjects.

For these reasons, we don’t think it would be right to reply to your specific points here.

But we would like to resolve the problem, so we'll ring you to organise a convenient time to talk.

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

jenni99 — Sat, 19 Mar 2022 21:13:08 GMT

:) To be 100% fair a lot of business owners are "effectively gagged by the fear of breaching client confidentiality" also " But having to seek permission from an owner to share a radiograph, or fearing that maybe you might have posted some detail that would identify a labrador, usually in closed veterinary group or forum like this one, is to my mind nuts, " . . . . Ok. My mental health Nurse and My Gynecology consultant should feel free to share my info and pics without my permission or knowledge. Fair enough. Google Henrietta Lacks. . . . . . . .

disease outbreaks should and are reported to the relevant authorities

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 18 Mar 2022 08:47:38 GMT

[quote userid="30516" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-veterinary-practice/32304/do-pet-owners-need-or-deserve-confidentiality-in-their-dealings-with-a-vet/177705#177705"]Okay Dokey. if you get a cleaner or mechanic or metal health therapist in do you accept them discussing your circumstances over tik tok [/quote]

Hi jenni99

True enough ... I don't much like the idea of cleaners or mechanics or mental health therapists discussing my circumstances on tiktok.

But that's not quite the point. The point is that if they made a public complaint about me, especially an unfair one, on social media, then I have a right to reply. Veterinary professionals do not. You are effectively gagged by the fear of breaching client confidentiality.

There is another issue too, which is sharing info with peers for the benefit of the patient.

One of the positive things about the Internet is the way that vets and nurses share details of tricky cases to ask what their peers think.

But having to seek permission from an owner to share a radiograph, or fearing that maybe you might have posted some detail that would identify a labrador, usually in closed veterinary group or forum like this one, is to my mind nuts, and an unnecessary barrier to something that benefits patients.

[quote userid="30516" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-veterinary-practice/32304/do-pet-owners-need-or-deserve-confidentiality-in-their-dealings-with-a-vet/177705#177705"] As for Business Clients --- they are the very ones that should welcome publicity . .. not need hiding . . .[/quote]

Business clients. I was thinking of disease outbreaks on farms, or medical problems with breeders could be commercially sensitive if shared.

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

jenni99 — Thu, 17 Mar 2022 23:11:04 GMT

For most normal pet owners, there is nothing about anal glands or worming treatments, or spaying that demands confidentiality. Okay Dokey. if you get a cleaner or mechanic or metal health therapist in do you accept them discussing your circumstances over tik tok . As for Business Clients --- they are the very ones that should welcome publicity . .. not need hiding . . .

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 17 Mar 2022 17:27:13 GMT

[quote userid="2637" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-veterinary-practice/32304/do-pet-owners-need-or-deserve-confidentiality-in-their-dealings-with-a-vet/177703#177703"]In Veterinary Practice I can only DREAM of defending my team like this. [/quote]

Ha, I'll bet!

That said, the last thing one wants is to escalate matters. The real art is replying in such a way that makes you look great, and shuts down the discussion (ie makes it clear that you are not going to add any more).

Actually one thing I have been thinking of (and which someone over on VS suggested as well), is a standard form of words which could be used in response to any unfair comment on social media.

Ben Ogden (and anyone else) what do you think about the need for client confidentiality? Can you think of any situation where the medical care of a dog demands confidentiality? If so, why more so than my plumber, for example, or electrician, or slightly higher up the food chain, an architect?

RE: Do pet owners need or deserve confidentiality in their dealings with a vet?

Ben Ogden — Wed, 16 Mar 2022 08:26:09 GMT

Remove it, or alter it at least.

It's a nightmare that you cannot defend against absolute damaging comments/reviews. I have big respect for business's that stand up for their team and defend against damaging reviews, IN FACT, i'm more likely to go to them! Here's an example:

REVIEW: "If i had an option to give 0 star, i would have chosen that instead of one. Food is really good but the service is extremely poor. The staff was so rude that they messed up taking orders for our group of 12. The billing went wrong and they over charged us which we then took 20 mins to recalculate and get that additional money credited into my account. Finally 2 of my friends had ordered take away for their kids, they messed up with labeling and they took wrong bags to their houses and later had to drive around at 22:17 to exchange the bags. The staff was very rude and came out inefficient. I repeat, food was really good but their experience ruins it for all of us."

RESPONSE "Thank you for taking the time to write down your review and change your user name again. One of your review on TripAdvisor was removed.

It is pointless. Please be confirmed that in THIS PLACE we are a LADY and GENTLEMAN who serves a LADY and GENTLEMAN. Please don't treat us as your slave at home in possibly any part of the world, but here We are in the U.K. Please respect people as there is no racism, prejudice, harassment, and so on in a workplace, otherwise, you will ask to leave. Thank you for my little patience. For a party of 10 people with refilling hot water, mainly one starter and a soup for a main, asking for a mixture between starter from a la carte menu with an early bird menu. Apologise we do not do Mix and Match here. Also, one of the parties was not having food at all. There is a staff shortage all over in the U.K. We tried to have a bundle of orders. We asked you for some more drinks, the answer is no. A minute later, one of you ask for a drink ( hot water). Of course, we ask if someone else would like to have a drink. The answer is NO. When we serve a drink, another one ask for a drink. It repeated all night. When I served the food, you said you did not order. Apparently, we might hire two to three staff for your table. 99 percents of our customers are regular, they normally order whenever they would love to. They do not need to write down their order since walking in, but they are polite and they know what type of food we are serving here. How to behave in a restaurant is a must. I believe that, myself of origin from Asia as well, this is normally a good manner when dining in. - answering a phone call loudly during taking an order. - answering a phone call loudly while you are in a restaurant, it should be respectful of your fellow dinners in the restaurant. I am appreciated. - loudness of noises; two tables nearby complained and had to leave quickly after meal. I have been working in the hospitality industry all around the world for more than 20 years, this is just the first case. I would nearly ask you to leave but, luckily, there is one of our regular customers at your party. To sum up, you might consider finding somewhere else to dine as I hardly believe this place is no longer meet your requirements. Listen you are only party of 10 pax not 12 pax ( go back where are you from and learn how to count 1 to 10) and one of you not eating.... just have a hot water! Go and Eat some where else."

In Veterinary Practice I can only DREAM of defending my team like this.