Safety on the Streets (Sarah Everard). Pre-Warning. Discussion of harm.

RE: Safety on the Streets (Sarah Everard). Pre-Warning. Discussion of harm.

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 14 Apr 2021 17:08:14 GMT

[quote userid="6058" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty/32162/safety-on-the-streets-sarah-everard-pre-warning-discussion-of-harm/176983#176983"]Do you have Reporting Policies set up?[/quote]

I wonder what percentage of practices have a formal way for reporting dodgy behaviour by clients or colleagues.

[quote userid="6058" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty/32162/safety-on-the-streets-sarah-everard-pre-warning-discussion-of-harm/176983#176983"]They think they misunderstood the intention? Confused, wondering if it's their fault for feeling it was unwelcome attention?? Brave soul especially to say anything if it's a Boss or Senior doing the touchy-feely!![/quote]

That's such a good point. Most unwelcome behaviour is subtle, I suspect. Makes it easier for the perp to deny.

RE: Safety on the Streets (Sarah Everard). Pre-Warning. Discussion of harm.

Alison Clare Hickman — Tue, 06 Apr 2021 12:16:48 GMT

Arlo Guthrie not sure if people are genuinely oblivious to others discomfort or just plainly too selfish in their own aims to make *themselves* feel good! (Unless a genuinely true narcissistic personality). Either way... the end result is they put unwanted pressures onto others and leave them to decide if they want to deal with the discomfort...or worse, danger.

I am heartily fed up of having to resolve someone else's problems/issues in being fair in life to other beings but, that's what I have to do to make *my* life more tolerable and safe. And. Hopefully. Lead by example and make change!

We negotiate the improper remark from a client - without harming the business but ensuring the client realises the unfortunate nature of the remark. Difficult but not impossible. But very definitely not to be left unremarked as otherwise the behaviour is endorsed. Stand up. Stand politely firm. Be who you want your business to be. Do you have Reporting Policies set up?

Huggy personality types are great! I'm one. Essential to make sure I read the person I'm dishing out my affections to correctly... Hang on a minute... I can't possibly mind-read. I can read body language though. I can listen to words. I've a good chance of getting it right. If I don't...what do I do? Step back, withdraw . Apologise. It's *my error* not theirs. (I think I'm being happy and fab. You think I'm being creepy and bad).

This last part is the missing element, I think, in most encounters where 'touchy-feely' goes awry and the person subjected to it feels they can't really complain as there's been no apology offered to them. They think they misunderstood the intention? Confused, wondering if it's their fault for feeling it was unwelcome attention?? Brave soul especially to say anything if it's a Boss or Senior doing the touchy-feely!! Do you have Reporting Policies set up?

Banter. We've all participated in it up to a point and enjoyed the freedom of expression. However it can lead to destructive behaviour, we know this. If it feels uncomfortable...it has gone too far, is my limit, and I'll say so...in as "Hey guys, c'mon!!" or something similarly jokey but they get me... But if more serious... Do you have Reporting Policies set up?

Peace, harmony and bumblebees

RE: Safety on the Streets (Sarah Everard). Pre-Warning. Discussion of harm.

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 06 Apr 2021 09:37:06 GMT

[quote userid="43078" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty/32162/safety-on-the-streets-sarah-everard-pre-warning-discussion-of-harm/176959#176959"]I have been on the receiving end of some very disturbing comments from clients. I would like to be able to get to a stage where staff felt that their concerns and issues with clients like this were taken seriously by the practice management team[/quote]

Erin Taylor Do you think that they are generally not taken seriously? Or maybe that they are taken seriously but practices don't want to offend clients and it will be a very tricky issue to raise (and in most cases, I guess the client would deny).

[quote userid="2240" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty/32162/safety-on-the-streets-sarah-everard-pre-warning-discussion-of-harm/176975#176975"]Its when it has gone far beyond banter and becomes predatory that worries me.[/quote]

I used to think something similar - ie that the jovial wolf-whistle was a relatively benign thing and the real issue is the more predatory stuff. I've changed my mind. I think that even what I might have called relatively low grade stuff like wolf-whistling is degrading. And I think that society tolerating wolf-whistling sets the scene for worse.

[quote userid="2368" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty/32162/safety-on-the-streets-sarah-everard-pre-warning-discussion-of-harm/176976#176976"]he is a very 'huggy' tactile person which some people dont like.[/quote]

I do find it curious how some people seem so completely oblivious to how uncomfortable they make people when they get too close, or are inappropriately tactile. Only seems to be a very small number of people, though. Sometimes booze involved, of course.

RE: Safety on the Streets (Sarah Everard). Pre-Warning. Discussion of harm.

Selena Carnell — Sun, 04 Apr 2021 15:31:50 GMT

one of our vets is known for banter, but it did cross a boundary a couple of weeks ago, our receptionist hit him and told him 'Too far' luckily I was stood there and heard it, it was fully in jest but with a different member of staff it could well have been taken the wring way. he is a very 'huggy' tactile person which some people dont like.

RE: Safety on the Streets (Sarah Everard). Pre-Warning. Discussion of harm.

Sal the 1st — Sun, 04 Apr 2021 09:45:21 GMT

Its when it has gone far beyond banter and becomes predatory that worries me. I know it has happened in the past and for all I know is still happening? Jimmy Saville/BBC springs to mind

RE: Safety on the Streets (Sarah Everard). Pre-Warning. Discussion of harm.

Selena Carnell — Fri, 02 Apr 2021 08:50:48 GMT

Never been harassed but have worked with one creepy vet who liked the receptionists with the low cut top and short skirt, he was very high upin the rcvs!

Lots of inappropriate banter but nothing that has made me feel uncomfortable.

RE: Safety on the Streets (Sarah Everard). Pre-Warning. Discussion of harm.

Erin Taylor — Thu, 01 Apr 2021 12:58:09 GMT

I wouldn't like to say I've been sexually harassed, but I have been on the receiving end of some very disturbing comments from clients. I would like to be able to get to a stage where staff felt that their concerns and issues with clients like this were taken seriously by the practice management team, and in serious cases clients were warned or sacked because of this behaviour. Its unacceptable that staff are expected to put themselves in this situation on a regular basis, especially with clients that may have a bit of a reputation for making these 'light hearted' comments or gestures, and they should never feel that they have to keep these issues to themselves.

RE: Safety on the Streets (Sarah Everard). Pre-Warning. Discussion of harm.

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 01 Apr 2021 10:42:56 GMT

My gosh, Ali, I'm so sorry to read your story. I'm glad you raised this subject here - I think it is so important. It has also been discussed on VetSurgeon, and I've been really shocked by how many women have been sexually assaulted.

I am interested to know how many veterinary nurses have been assaulted or on the receiving end of persistent unwelcome advances in the course of your work - I'd like to think it would be rare from colleagues, and perhaps more likely from clients.

If it is commonplace, then is there anything that employers can do to make you safe?

RE: Safety on the Streets (Sarah Everard). Pre-Warning. Discussion of harm.

Sal the 1st — Fri, 19 Mar 2021 17:48:43 GMT

I have had to think carefully about posting this. Being brought up in a village I suppose I was a bit naive. Going up to 'big school' in the town I became educated very quickly on the wicked ways of the world from the bus driver in the morning to the biology teacher who would only have girls on the front two benches of his class (and used to fiddle with himself under the desk), and being the only girl in the school to take engineering science and metalwork as exam options. Don't get me wrong I didn't feel threatened but it was damned uncomfortable.

And then along came the 'Yorkshire Ripper' and all the girls had compulsory self defence and awareness classes and I have to admit I was scared. Yes it taught you how to survive but the overwhelming message that came from it was to avoid drawing attention to yourself through what you wore or how you behaved, where you walked, to avoid speaking to any male you didn't know, what was and wasn't permissible as self defence (stuff that, if I am needing to defend myself I will do what it takes permissible or not). AND that if you found yourself in this predicament it was almost certainly something that you had done to invite it by not observing 'the rules'.

One of my earliest veterinary jobs was a live in position and I was employed by a groper . He used to make my skin crawl. There have been a few of them over the years. I would like to think it doesn't happen as much now but who knows? nurses who need jobs tend to keep quiet about these things. I did pluck up the courage to report one of them but it was pretty bad and was just brushed off. A swift knee in the nuts I found was far more effective the next time he tried it, and then I found somewhere else to work, rapidly.

.....Actually I'm not going to give anymore of my horror story, there is no value from me sharing it, but I did attend a couple of seminars presented by Diana Lamplugh, mother of Suzy, and would highly recommend her book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beating-Aggression-Diana-Lamplugh/dp/0297793756/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=diana+lamplugh&qid=1616175210&sr=8-7 .

My reason for posting this? I volunteer on a number of 'womens' support groups' and whilst there are some nasty happenings I feel it is important to remember that being male isn't a crime against females, the good by far outnumber the bad.