Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

RE: Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

Ian M — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 03:20:31 GMT

I am inclined to agree with many of the "anti-" posts above so won't repeat the sentiments of other posters who've made so many of the key points.

I don't accept the "someone has to facilitate this / educate them" argument because that was what many vets and para-vets used to say about extreme inherited defects in dogs and cats until the BVA grew a spine a few years back.

As a profession that should be looking to data and evidence, have a look at the massive over-representation of imports on the facebook timeline of this company https://www.facebook.com/caninecaptureuk/ that specializes in recapture of escaped pets.

Knowing that imports to date may constitute around 60,000 (an over-estimate if you look at the TRACE data),of a total canine population of 8.5 million, you would be expecting the number of imported escapees to be around 0.007% of the escaped dogs if these animals were not experiencing extreme behavioural and settlement issues which lead to them escaping. Clearly, the evidence is there that you can see for yourselves - I reckon they make up at least 40%.

I do not accept that "if we help them get it right, it will be okay" is going to fix such an extreme welfare issue. In the frequency of escapes, the dogs themselves are telling us something - they are street dogs, that's the life they've known, and that confinement is hugely stressful for them.

I will add one other thing - the double whammy. Many of the dogs that have behavior issues end up in a UK rescue centre when problems occur. So not only has a UK rescue dog missed a home, but now another dog has been added to the shelter population. Anecdotally, many adopters are then so traumatised that they either do not taken on a dog at all, or seek out the non-rescue market for their next pet as a puppy.

RE: Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

FINNIGAN — Thu, 21 Feb 2019 07:22:58 GMT

I’m sorry but have to say I wish we could stop the importing of dogs from abroad, we have a client who rescues umpteen cats and dogs from Egypt constantly, only to continue to hear that they are always being returned to her because of behaviour issues!! Our rescue centres are overflowing here, y not rescue these dogs and cats before bringing more into this country, sorry but I feel quite strongly about this

RE: Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

Sal the 1st — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 19:35:09 GMT

[quote user="Ben Ogden"]

Anyway, as you say, you want the information, not the debate. My advise is this. Don't stick your neck out and give information that'll be moot in 42 days time.

[/quote]

agreed - I have just advised one of our clients wanting to 'rescue' some kittens from Spain to contact Defra directly

RE: Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

Sal the 1st — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 19:26:34 GMT

[quote user="Ben Ogden"]

[/quote]

This is what I was driving at - or alternatively if people really want to support animals in other countries (and yes I have and do) then please don't spend the money on importing dogs into this country when so much more can be achieved with the money by tackling the problem at source when funding neutering and rescue centres in their own country.

RE: Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

therainyj — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 12:23:52 GMT

Thanks Ben!

Good point. I guess we won't know the extent of the post-Brexit changes until it actually happens. Gives me a bit more time to further educate them, too

therainyj

RE: Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

Ben Ogden — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 12:08:33 GMT

[quote user="therainyj"]

To provide some context, they are an established charity who have had some spare kennels for some time and they thought they could use these to help dogs from overseas. As a veterinary professional they asked me for information and I do feel I should provide this as accurately as I can, as with any question any client asks me. The decision then is up to them and does not necessarily reflect my views. I understand it's a controversial subject.

I thought perhaps someone here may have had some experience with this type of importation before and as a supporting community could share what they have learnt - please post here if so! :) No worries if not, I'll continue to research.

Interesting to read people's comments. My vet and I have discussed a lot of this with the charity already but it's good to have some back up.

Thanks,

therainyj

[/quote]

This issue with researching 'Pre-Brexit' is once you have the information needed, you've advised them and then they're ready to implement it, the rules may (and indeed likely will) have changed (42 days) and you're back to point go. If you ring companies that deal with these sort of things, you'll find them reluctant to commit to concrete responses because they don't know either! The Pet Passport Scheme hasn't really got itself organised, riddled with probably and maybes.

A rescue centre with kennels to spare? I think were it my rescue Kennels, I'd assess my neighbouring charities and foster a relationship of transferring their excess over to me. If I was donating to this charity, I wouldn't be best pleased knowing my donations are being used to import dogs rather than helping working with X rescue in the next county with dogs they're having to euthanise.

Anyway, as you say, you want the information, not the debate. My advise is this. Don't stick your neck out and give information that'll be moot in 42 days time.

RE: Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

therainyj — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 11:46:43 GMT

Interesting to read people's comments. My vet and I have discussed a lot of this with the charity already but it's good to have some back up.

Thanks,

therainyj

RE: Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

Ben Ogden — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 10:50:22 GMT

I don't be repeating previous comments and don't want this to come across as a bashing, but why would you?

Should we, as a profession be facilitating this?

Is it ethical?

Our practice covers an area that is finding this sort of thing very 'in vogue' with no thought given to the impact it is having or the consequences. We're talking, health, welfare, monetary.

Every time a client tells me 'oh, he was rescued from X country' I am straight back at them about how the expense of getting that one dog here could have helped so many that are already in this country in need of help. Not only that, I'll bring in the figures on how many dogs are being euthanaised A DAY in this country.

I wouldn't be quick to encourage Importing into our country, we have enough rescues desperate for the kind of support and help you could give. Lastly, is it helping that country? Like really? By exporting that countries problem are they ever going to be inclined to resolve it?

RE: Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

Sal the 1st — Thu, 14 Feb 2019 20:42:27 GMT

[quote user="Selena "]

Also I have seen in practice, imports from abroad with severe health issues, incontinent, paraplegic. sorry but that is just wrong.

[/quote]

Ah yes but a foreign rescue it only gets you a minor medallion and a few points on the sainthood scoreboard these days - a foreign rescue with serious health problems takes you right to the top of the scoreboard and instant sainthood (and also you can tell everybody all about it for as long as the dog is around and sometimes way beyond which will get you even more brownie points and ensure your place at the top for a very long time to come).

I don't agree with importing foreign street dogs , have made no secret of it but also I can't help but feel sorry for them, especially the ones with long term health problems. The poor little (and some big) buggers are usually terrified, 9/10 you can't even get near them so they can be adequately treated. I am not even counting anymore the number of dogs that take flight and escape into the surrounding countryside soon after being fostered or adopted (no doubt some will survive as they are used to having to fend for themselves so long as they leave the sheep alone or at least don't get caught near the sheep) , or the ones euthed because they are un-handleable and the rescues wont have them back. I have seen this end badly so many times.

Actually I don't have a problem fundraising for foreign rescues - so long as the money is spent tackling the problem at source and not shifting it sideways. I don't think many people realise that by taking on a foreign dog they may inadvertently be supporting foreign puppy breeding or that they may be signing the death warrant for a dog that is already in rehoming kennels here because its time is up and the kennel is needed. Its a sad business all round

RE: Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

Selena Carnell — Thu, 14 Feb 2019 19:29:11 GMT

a shame when there are dogs in the UK crying out for homes. Yet it seems more fashionable to have a 'Rommy rescue' or similar. often never been tested for temperament, diseases, a suitability in a home. These dogs have often been street dogs are are traumatised with sudden transportation. Also I have seen in practice, imports from abroad with severe health issues, incontinent, paraplegic. sorry but that is just wrong.

RE: Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

therainyj — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 11:15:47 GMT

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. They're eager to get the ball rolling so I'm going to need to do some research pre-Brexit!

I do agree that importing dogs raises lots of questions. But as the charity have to come to me personally for help I think they will either go elsewhere for assistance and/or keep getting it wrong until they eventually get it right. So I do feel obliged to at least try to give them the relevant information they need if they wish to proceed.

Thanks again.

RE: Helping a charity import dogs from abroad

apache — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 11:04:00 GMT

Firstly, you are correct, you cannot do this on a pet passport. The rules are all up in the air so if you can wait a couple of months then that might be best and see what Brexit throws at us.

Secondly, have you really thought this through? UK rescue centres full to bursting with native dogs needing homes. Imported dogs often come with exotic disease and that's an issue for the dog itself and a posssible risk to the UK. I think it's very dodgy ethically and it's not something I would personally support in any way shape or form.