Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

Sal the 1st — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 01:05:48 GMT

[quote user="Jean Douglas"]

Rabbit vaccines - I've not heard anything about that ??

[/quote]

owners asking for myxi only and separate VHD

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

Jean Douglas — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 18:12:57 GMT

Rabbit vaccines - I've not heard anything about that ??

We get a lot of myxi here so we do get a good uptake

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

Sal the 1st — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 21:29:03 GMT

[quote user="Jean Douglas"]

Hopefully if its 2nd vacc the hard-core antis will have been weedled out or converted at the 1st vacc stage by the vets or not bother turning up in the first place.

Know your stuff and be honest. Vaccination saves lives. The vaccine costs a lot less than diagnosing, never mind a days treatment, for the diseases in question.

Adverse events do happen. One lepto vacc reports "clinical signs of immune-mediated haemolytic anaemia, immune-mediated thrombocytopenia, or immune-mediated polyarthritis have been reported. In very rare cases a transient acute hypersensitivity reaction may occur. Such reactions may evolve to a more severe condition (anaphylaxis), which may be life-threatening" http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-455469 [acessed 4th Jan 2019] very rare means less than 0.01% of treated dogs, but sods law it will happen to the vaccine doubter convinced in clinic by absolute assurances of safety. Any pet can be allergic/ have a bad reaction to anything.

And at the end of the day you are administering a drug prescribed by the veterinary surgeon. If the client has real problems or concerns you should refer them back to the prescriber Enjoy all those wriggly little puppies

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When the L4 vaccine came out we had folks ringing us up for L4 and we were only stocking L2. We bought in some L4 to keep them happy (I think total since it came out I have only ordered 30 doses tops). Now we get calls saying no L4 we would rather not vaccinate if you don't have L2. How things change when social media gets involved AND rabbit vaccines - don't even go there, the internet is responsible for many evils

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

Jean Douglas — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 17:37:14 GMT

Also try contacting your vaccine manufacturer - they may be able to do some CPD for you ?

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

Jean Douglas — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 17:35:21 GMT

Hopefully if its 2nd vacc the hard-core antis will have been weedled out or converted at the 1st vacc stage by the vets or not bother turning up in the first place.

Know your stuff and be honest. Vaccination saves lives. The vaccine costs a lot less than diagnosing, never mind a days treatment, for the diseases in question.

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

Andrea Tarr — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 09:56:21 GMT

The WSAVA guidelines are world guidelines, so by definition they can't be country specific. Lepto is is not a core vaccine globally, but in the UK it is considered core because of the particular risk factors; and data sheet recommendations will not be the same in all countries. The strength of the guidelines is that they aim to interpret the evidence, and the FAQ section at the end is helpful in explaining the principles of vaccination and answering practical questions about vaccine use, to help particularly when SPC/data sheets are unhelpful.

The Veterinary Prescriber learning module on Lepto vaccines is balanced and covers all of this:

understand the naming system for Leptospira and the relevance to vaccination;
be aware of the limitations of serological testing in determining the type of infecting Leptospira and the immune status of dogs;
understand what is known about the types of Leptospira affecting dogs in the UK;
understand the features of the different vaccines and how they compare;
be aware of what is known about the safety of the vaccines.

https://www.veterinaryprescriber.org/subscribers-content/lepto-vaccines

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

Nicholas Coleman — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 21:26:44 GMT

All depends on your practice. A good 90% of our clients are insured so the message would have a greater impact

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

Andrea Tarr — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:19:15 GMT

Veterinary Prescriber CPD module on Lepto vaccines

https://www.veterinaryprescriber.org/subscribers/

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

Nichola231 — Sat, 29 Dec 2018 09:03:22 GMT

I was in the same position 4 years ago. My only contact with clients was at discharge or if they came to visit their pet. Got a new job and now run nurses clinics every day.

As previously mentioned, I remind them that most insurance policies will require vaccinations to be kept up to date. If not up to date, then the policy may be deemed invalid.

I remind them that herd immunity is key to maintaining a healthy population. I also tell them about all the puppies I've nursed through Parvo, how the majority didn't survive and that diseases like these are preventable through vaccination. It's also cheaper to vaccine than to treat Parvo, Hepatitis etc.

If they still don't want to listen, then that's their choice. Not much we can do about social media unfortunately. There will always be those that want to rant about their Vets.

Good luck!

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

apache — Fri, 28 Dec 2018 23:19:12 GMT

[quote user="Nicholas Coleman"]Not vaccinating may mean they cannot claim on their insurance policy or obtain a pet passport. That will usually change the client's mind quickly![/quote]

Interesting. I'd estimate around 20% of our clients are insured and 0.5% have pet passports.

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]Very helpful telling the OP what NOT to read - your suggestion for reference material is...?[/quote]

The datasheet of the vaccine your practice uses?

I feel this discussion is far more about calming people's fears rather than what a bunch of Americans think about lepto.

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

Nicholas Coleman — Fri, 28 Dec 2018 21:55:05 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

I will however ask them to check their insurance policy and make sure their pet is covered in the event of a claim - daft as it sounds they are more likely to vaccinate through this reason more than anything I can tell them.

I have to smile tho when you see the real hard core anti vaxxers forget all their principles when they want a pet passport

[/quote]

Totally agree with this. Not vaccinating may mean they cannot claim on their insurance policy or obtain a pet passport. That will usually change the client's mind quickly!

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Fri, 28 Dec 2018 11:23:15 GMT

Very helpful telling the OP what NOT to read - your suggestion for reference material is...?

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

apache — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 22:23:45 GMT

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]you could do worse than to check out the WSAVA vaccination guidelines. [/quote]

God no. They are terrible. Don't follow UK data sheets. Don't consider lepto as a core vaccine. Read something better.

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 22:18:28 GMT

Absolutely. It's not worth getting into an argument with these people - send them on to the vets! But for your own research, you could do worse than to check out the WSAVA vaccination guidelines.

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

Sal the 1st — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 21:59:44 GMT

I just don't get into a fight with them - life is too short . At the end of the day it is their pet and their choice. its a shame they choose to not protect their pet against a preventable disease but it is still their choice.

I have to smile tho when you see the real hard core anti vaxxers forget all their principles when they want a pet passport

RE: Vaccines and anti vaxxers! Help!

apache — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 20:29:12 GMT

I always rationalize it by saying that I'm a vet, love my dogs to bits and would do anything that I thought was in their best interests. I vaccinate my dogs every year and I'm perfectly happy with the Eurican L3 in my own dogs.

Speak to the vaccine manufacturer about averse reactions. Last I heard not a single death linked to L4, few dogs are a bit quiet but that's ok. Obviously you can refute claims vaccine wipes out MDA etc. If ongoing I will talk about seeing lapsed dogs die from lepto after just a puppy course - I've seen a number of times with my own eyes. I'm no fan of titre testing as we don't know what the results mean - are antibodies protective? Can't titre test for lepto and that's the disease I see most and kills dogs.