Raw Food Diets

RE: Raw Food Diets

Naomi1977 — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 15:26:19 GMT

Hills (If I remember right) have just advertised a RAW feed cpd...Free I believe :)

Rather than deciding against this, I think an open mind until ALL facts have been established and considered. Each individual is different.

RE: Raw Food Diets

Alice Weaver — Fri, 07 Dec 2018 08:35:42 GMT

Hi Amie

I attended the Natures Menu CPD about a year ago for The same reasons you are looking into finding out more info. It was interesting to note that everyone else in attendance appeared to be equally as skeptical as me!

The CPD was run by an MRCVS who works for Natures Menu. I did find it useful, but it just solidified my original thoughts about raw feeding. Membership and adherence to a regulating body is completely voluntary, and although Natures Menu appears to have high standards (higher than human food because the meat will be consumed raw) a lot of companies may not and there’s no way to tell. Similarly I think lots of clients get the wrong end of the stick and think that feeding a raw diet means any meat you can buy from the supermarket which just increases The likelihood of the animal contracting campylobactor etc., and the CPD didn’t disagree with this.

i learned that there is Zero reliable info for a lay person out there Who wants to make their own raw diet at home. Literally none. The advice from the CPD -given As impartially as possible- was that if a raw diet is to be fed it should be proprietry and not homemade if it is to be a reliably complete diet. I found this last piece of info useful recently when someone came to me just this week asking about makin their own diet at home. I simply had to say that there is no advice at all so I couldn’t possibly advise!

RE: Raw Food Diets

Sean McCormack — Fri, 30 Nov 2018 16:17:11 GMT

Hi all, if you'd like to view the webinar I did about the evidence base for and against raw feeding it's here:

https://www.thewebinarvet.com/webinar/confused-about-raw-feeding-a-review-of-the-evidence-base-for-and-against

I tried to make it as unbiased as possible, even though it's sponsored by tails.com, a cooked pet food company. We even won 'Most Enjoyed Webinar' in the 2018 Veterinary Trust Awards for it. Would love to hear your feedback.

RE: Raw Food Diets

Amie Atkins — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 18:22:41 GMT

Thank you for your reply. It is something I’m really keen to learn more about so your info is v helpful

RE: Raw Food Diets

talchi — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 13:51:39 GMT

ive done the natures menu course, they have two, an advisor course and an expert course.the expert course is really indepth, however it is worth remembering that the course is tailored to their own products, so the advice may not be for all raw diets

RE: Raw Food Diets

WelshyNurse — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 08:46:05 GMT

I don't think I've ever worked with a vet who recommends raw feeding.

RE: Raw Food Diets

Olivia Coulton — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 21:47:57 GMT

If you get the vet times or have access to it online there was a good article on raw feeding this week and the evidence of raw meats and fish carrying pathogenic bacteria, protozoa, viruses and parasites that can cause zoonoisis.

RE: Raw Food Diets

Sparky — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 15:59:25 GMT

if we do get more cpd and research I've like to involve myself in it, Unfornately I've had lots of new puppy checks recently and ALL of them have been on Raw food diets recommended from the breeder..when you suggest potentially other foods e.g hills, RCW, they scoff at the idea...taking breeder's word over yours or a Vet's

RE: Raw Food Diets

leah attwood — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:51:55 GMT

I worked with a prominent veterinary dental specialist in South Africa, whom claimed the biggest common cause of death in large wild cats is dental disease from eating all the bones! So that claim from Nature's menu makes me chuckle! We used to see 1-3 cheetah's a week with dental dz! And as you rightly say, your sweet DSH is not an African wild cat!

I'm doing a lot of cpd to do with behaviour and nutrition at the minute and it's definitely (and finally) swung me against raw food diets. The evolution of the ancestral wolf into today's modern domestic dog has moved from being carnivorous to omnivorous. All the evidence for this can be gathered simply from examining their anatomy and physiology, evidence that raw-food studies are lacking. Some argue that even wolves were never soley carnivores, as they would have eaten their entire prey, including their plant-based gut contents! And so, a 100% raw meat diet, is both unsafe and unbalanced. Ask any behaviourist what the consequence of this is - a naughty, unruly and even aggressive pet.

Good luck coming to your own conclusions though. I've still done the nature's menu CPD, as we should know what our clients are asking for but just be warned that anyone can manufacture a commercial dog food with some fancy claims and do a good job in selling it to you.

RE: Raw Food Diets

Clare Espley — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 12:14:05 GMT

If you do find anything I would be very interested to know. I'm not an advocate for raw feeding as, like many others have mentioned, there is just not enough actual evidence to support it and there are plenty of risks involved - I have seen first hand the effects of an unbalanced diet on puppies. However, since an increasing number of our clients are now feeding raw and wanting advice I would like to be armed with as much knowledge as possible and that seems to be lacking cpd-wise.

RE: Raw Food Diets

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 22:16:50 GMT

I follow these raw food discussions with interest.

Like Arlo, I choose to feed a commercial diet to my dog - for the same reasons.

I don't have anything against raw feeding - if my dog had a particular problem that got better with a raw diet (as, anecdotally some dogs with skin disease seem to) then game on.

What I have a problem with is the complete intransigence of the raw food evangelicals, who refuse to acknowledge any of the associated risks when they dole out their questionable advice to other pet owners. They don't like it when I point out studies such as the ones mentioned in this thread.

A common comment is "why should there be a problem, if the same hygiene principles are followed as when we prepare our own raw meat?" - I point out that we humans don't proceed to eat the meat raw, and neither do we indulge in such habits as licking our arses and then lick other people's faces / hands / household objects, nor do we crap on the ground. At least most of us, anyway.

I saw on a facebook group earlier today one raw feeding zealot suggest to another dog owner that they should only bother with 3rd party insurance if the dog is raw fed! It seems that they are often the same types who are anti-vaccine, anti-worming, anti-veterinary professional etc.

What a load of ..tripe

RE: Raw Food Diets

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 10:57:46 GMT

[quote user="LizzyJ"]pros and cons of BARF[/quote]

Well, one of the cons of raw pet food appears to be, um, death:

https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2018/10/four-stec-infections-one-person-dead-after-exposure-to-raw-pet-food/

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/748774/STEC_O157_PT21.28_Outbreak_Report.pdf

That may be a bit melodramatic, as it's not like people are dropping like flies. Still, I wouldn't want to be the one person who pegs it.

But it isn't just shiga, there is an increased risk of salmonella, llisteria and campylobacter, none of which are fun at the best of times.

The reality is that 'natural' does not always = 'good'.

Personally, I prefer the convenience of a commercial diet and haven't seen any credible evidence that it does them any harm (on the contrary, commercial pet food companies spend millions formulating diets so that they are better than the dog would naturally eat in the wild, and contain the right nutrients - something not all pet owners feeding raw achieve). And with young children in the house, I would rather not have the added hygiene risks.

But that's just me :)

(BTW, I am not in the pocket of some pet food company or other!)

RE: Raw Food Diets

LizzyJ — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 10:36:22 GMT

The Webinar Vet did a webinar last month on the pros and cons of BARF, you can probably still access that.

RE: Raw Food Diets

Louise Royle RVN CertCFVHNut — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 08:23:32 GMT

And that there is very little scientific evidence that raw feeding is actually beneficial to pets, The natures menu cpd that i read referenced tooth decay being reduced in raw fed cats on a study of African wild cats! My DSH is not an African wild cat and until some actual money is spent proving the benefits of raw i feeding i will remain a sceptic.

RE: Raw Food Diets

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 07:25:14 GMT

..Not to mention the recent cases of TB found in cats fed on commercial raw food

RE: Raw Food Diets

apache — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 23:15:50 GMT

Whilst we have clients feeding raw diets I think we do need to maintain a healthy scepticism and look for evidence to back up our views. Have a look at:

"It was found that dogs fed diets containing raw-meat were more likely to carry Salmonella species and antibiotic resistant E. coli compared to the control group (cooked diets), including E. coli resistant to multiple types of antibiotics, including those critically important to human health, such as the 3^rd generation cephalosporins"

https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/infection-and-global-health/research/pet-health/raw-pet-food/

"Clearly, there is some compelling evidence suggesting that raw food diets may be a theoretical risk nutritionally. In addition, raw food poses a substantial risk of infectious disease to the pet, the pet’s environment, and the humans in the household. What is lacking, however, is level 1 evidence from randomized controlled trials or strong level 2 evidence from large cohort studies to evaluate risks or benefits of raw meat diets in pets. There is, though, sufficient evidence available that veterinarians should feel obligated to discuss the human health implications of a client’s decision to use a raw meat-based food for their pet"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3003575/

RE: Raw Food Diets

Emma Aurelia — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 22:27:38 GMT

Hiya..really glad you are wanting to know more on the raw feeding diet. I've been raw feeding for over 10 yrs. natures menu Have a good advisory team. Also if you look on Facebook worldwide raw feeding group there is so much on there and they can show you the calculators to work out how to get the best ratios depending on weight and age. You can adjust raw to suit some conditions ..but I've always spoken to the vet at natures menu/ amp. You can get good quality nuggets which have everything or you can make it up from scratch which is easy once you know the ratios. Variety is the key esp for fussy eaters.

I think it's a good idea to have some grounding on this aspect of diet. Esp do you can give clients accurate info and pointers and they can make an informed choice .,it's a real shame that it's not covered in more detail in VN and Vet school . Many breeders are rearing pups on it. You only have to go to crufts to see how many raw food companies are there and how much those competing are also catered for re raw. I think people are understanding more about it in the last 5 years.