Championing the role of veterinary nurses

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Sal the 1st — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 00:01:41 GMT

the way I see it if you want to 'sell' nurses and what nurses do -you have to do it to a wider audience than that which comes and goes through the waiting room. I know my strengths (and my weaknesses) and I use them. I have appeared in lots of different places doing lots of different things over the years. If I see an opportunity I take it - just thinking outside the box. These 'opportunities' are everywhere they don't take a lot of finding, and where they don't exist I'm not averse to creating them.

as an example in 2005 we had a national vn day, that got extended somewhere along the line into a week and now its a whole month and yet still the majority of people have not a clue what our job entails - hell some nurses are still not clear about what our job entails. Whatever has been done to promote the vn as a group just isn't hitting the mark its the same old all the time or perhaps its because we are such a disparate bunch of individuals we could never pull it together long enough to get a decent campaign established?

I think this is a brilliant initiative of Arlo's but I really think it needs a bigger audience

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Alison Clare Hickman — Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:47:19 GMT

Sal the 1st SPOT ON! 100% agree!! Go forth and multiply (so to speak). Getting out and about and being hands on and meeting people is THE BEST WAY of promoting anything. People buy people first and foremost. If they ain't coming over your threshold, you have to go find 'em...

I say this - if we listen to Sal, everyone, she's got masses of effective, proven, does what it says on the tin, experience and advice for us.

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Sal the 1st — Tue, 27 Feb 2018 08:59:11 GMT

well if you are looking at income drivers you are all missing a 'biggie' and that is PR - nurses getting involved in events outside the practice. Ok its not the magical schedule 3 and maybe not nursing in the conventional sense but I would argue that this is community nursing at its best - it can seriously make a difference. I had my own radio slot for just over 2 yrs at one practice and a year at another practice in another part of the country, (I had regular listener figures of between 8-11,000, which ok may be small fry to some but made a big difference to the practices I worked in). I took part in a couple of events at 'The World of James Herriot' when it first opened, did a few interviews for regional telly it gets the message across very effectively and brings owners and their pets into the practice and not a drop of blood or nastiness to be seen. What did it cost my practice? an hour and a half of my time every week

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Alison Clare Hickman — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:29:57 GMT

Arlo Guthrie- I've been away and without so much of a 'G' internet connection (eeeek!) but am back now so can review what you're asking of us and will revert when I can! ANYONE ELSE??!!!!!!

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 10:48:17 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]At the moment, what I need most is feedback about the top level navigation, ie categories of veterinary nursing work:

https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/registered-veterinary-nurses/m/

Is that a good list of categories. Any more?

Then, within the general nursing list, is the list on the right comprehensive enough?

https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/registered-veterinary-nurses/general-veterinary-nursing/m/veterinary-nurse-roles/ [/quote]

Bump :)

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 23 Feb 2018 11:06:20 GMT

[quote user="Alison Clare Hickman"]

?? asterisk at, or separate category for, those disciplines (such as Consulting / Nurse Clinics) that are/could be direct income drivers for the practice?[/quote]

Good idea to highlight income drivers, but need to think how best to do it.

At the moment, what I need most is feedback about the top level navigation, ie categories of veterinary nursing work:

https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/registered-veterinary-nurses/m/

Is that a good list of categories. Any more?

Then, within the general nursing list, is the list on the right comprehensive enough?

https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/registered-veterinary-nurses/general-veterinary-nursing/m/veterinary-nurse-roles/

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Alison Clare Hickman — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:53:43 GMT

?? asterisk at, or separate category for, those disciplines (such as Consulting / Nurse Clinics) that are/could be direct income drivers for the practice?

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:00:45 GMT

OK - so, the way you want it ...

First level navigation (ie the nurses at work gallery home page)

https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/registered-veterinary-nurses/m/

(Note the category titles on the right hand side).

Then, if you click on General Nursing, it takes you to:

https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/registered-veterinary-nurses/general-veterinary-nursing/m/veterinary-nurse-roles/

No layout done on this page yet, just to show how the listed tasks appear on the right hand side.

The really important thing to consider here is that list of tasks on the right hand side. In effect, it's an advertisement for all the things you do to make life easier for vets. SO, I think it should be in some kind of order, with the things which you think are MOST useful to vets / to the practice at the top, and those which are least useful at the bottom.

We also need to make sure this is a reasonably comprehensive list at the start, because although it can be changed, it is quite a time-consuming and repetitive task (for me!)

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:15:44 GMT

[quote user="Victoria Stearman"]I think I have to agree with Alison here...[/quote]

OK - I know when I'm beat ...

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

V E S — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 10:40:52 GMT

I think I have to agree with Alison here...

Going on your example, anaesthesia is also a imaging related task, not just used for theatre. It would be more logical to have an anaesthesia section for that, then a theatre section for things that are actually done in theatre e.g. scrubbing in?

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 10:34:28 GMT

[quote user="Alison Clare Hickman"]Type of work ... Arlo Guthrie - different set-ups in practice mean there's not necessarily one general answer to 'where' it's done for all...[/quote]

Alison Clare Hickman yes, but wouldn't it still be clear from those categories what we're talking about.

In other words: Administration of anaesthetic pre-medication

Would normally go under 'In Theatre' because it relates to theatre work. If you don't have a theatre, or administer pre-med by the dustbins out the back, that doesn't really matter, because everyone knows anaesthesia is a theatre-related task.

That's my logic (I'm not saying it's right!)

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Alison Clare Hickman — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 09:22:18 GMT

Type of work ... Arlo Guthrie - different set-ups in practice mean there's not necessarily one general answer to 'where' it's done for all...

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:55:21 GMT

First problem (only a small one).

My idea is that we need to categorise photos according to a logical structure which allows the reader to think 'am I using my VNs effectively in this area', and indeed for VNs to think 'can I do more in this area'.

I wondered whether this is best done by categorising 'by room'

So the top level list would be:

General Nursing
In the Imaging Dept
In Theatre
In the Lab
In Clinic

These are main galleries, under which we can further categorise images, along the following lines:

General Nursing
- Admitting and discharging patients
- Caring for hospitalised animals
- Planning nursing care
- Administration of oral, topical and rectal medication
- Administration of medicines by subcutaneous, intramuscular and intravenous injection
- Monitoring vital parameters (Heart rate & rhythm, pulse & pulse quality, respiratory rate & effort, mucous membrane colour, capillary refill time etc.)
- Monitoring pain
- Monitoring blood pressure
In the Imaging Dept
- Positioning for, taking and processing radiographs
- Assisting with ultrasound/CT/MRI
In Theatre
- Administration of anaesthetic pre-medication
- Intubation
- Giving local anaesthesia (Epidurals excluded from this I believe – clarification?)
- Monitoring of anaesthesia
In the Lab
- Taking samples for analysis e.g. blood, urine, faeces, skin, hair and bacterial swabs
- Performing in-house laboratory tests and record results
- Prepare samples for external analysis
In Clinic
- Dental Clinic
- Weight/Nutrition
- Administration of 2nd Vaccines

I think doing it this way is a nice clear way of presenting things, BUT, it does mean moving stuff around (so for example, anaesthesia and theatre would become one). And some things are perhaps difficult to categorise by room (minor surgery: in theatre? or in clinic?)

Anyone got any thoughts about this - ie whether the types of work you do should be categorised by 'where in the practice' you do it, or by 'type of work'.

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 17:37:37 GMT

[quote user="Victoria Stearman"]

Ok so I've taken your list Arlo and made a start! Can people please add to it or edit bits I may have wrong :-)

(Please visit the site to view this file)

[/quote]

V E S you are a brick! This is such a help.

Going to reproduce your list below so people can see it and comment more easily.

General Nursing

Admitting and discharging patients
Caring for hospitalised animals
Planning nursing care
Administration of oral, topical and rectal medication
Administration of medicines by subcutaneous, intramuscular and intravenous injection
Monitoring vital parameters (Heart rate & rhythm, pulse & pulse quality, respiratory rate & effort, mucous membrane colour, capillary refill time etc.)
Monitoring pain
Monitoring blood pressure
Placement and care of intravenous catheters
Placement and care of intraosseous catheters (can someone confirm we can place these?)
Placement and care of urinary catheters
Performing enemas
Placement of naso-oesophageal feeding tubes
Care of and feeding patients via feeding tubes (Naso-oesophageal, Oesophageal, PEG/PEG-J)
Setting up & administration of intravenous fluids
Setting up & administration of constant rate infusions
Wound & dressing management (including use and care of wound soak catheters)
Physiotherapy/Hydrotherapy
Clinical cleaning (e.g. consulting rooms, theatre, instruments)

Nurse Clinics

Nursing clinic/counselling (e.g. dental, weight/nutrition, behaviour, disease specific)
Administration of 2^nd vaccinations
Administration of prescribed, preventative POM-Vs such as endo- and ecto-parasiticides
Dispensing of prescribed medications to clients

Imaging

Positioning for, taking and processing radiographs
Assisting with ultrasound/CT/MRI

Anaesthesia

Administration of anaesthetic pre-medication
Intubation
Giving local anaesthesia (Epidurals excluded from this I believe – clarification?)
Monitoring of anaesthesia

Laboratory

Taking samples for analysis e.g. blood, urine, faeces, skin, hair and bacterial swabs
Performing in-house laboratory tests and record results
Prepare samples for external analysis

Minor Procedures

Performing dental ‘Scale and Polish’
Suturing
I’m not sure about lump removals/digit amputations etc – please can someone add these? Can you tell I’m a medical nurse………

Theatre

Surgical preparation of patients
“Scrubbing into” surgery to assist Veterinary Surgeons
Opening kit, drapes etc in a sterile manner

Advanced nursing, emergency and critical care

Triage and first aid
Placement and care of central lines/jugular catheters (Clarification – can nurses place PICC and CVC lines?)
Emptying and caring for drains
Caring for patients on a ventilator
CPCR
Setting up & administration of blood transfusions
Blood donation collection
Administering chemotherapy
Oxygen administration

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

V E S — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:41:11 GMT

Ok so I've taken your list Arlo and made a start! Can people please add to it or edit bits I may have wrong :-)

www.vetnurse.co.uk/.../Nursing-tasks.docx

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:03:41 GMT

https://www.veterinaryteambrief.com/article/elevating-role-veterinary-nurses?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=VTB&utm_campaign=Facebook

Found this - (US Vet Technicians) - a useful benchmark?

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:14:21 GMT

[quote user="Victoria Stearman"]I will see what I can come up with as a suggestion? [/quote]

Fantastic, thank you

And suggestions from anyone else welcome too. The more the merrier. Would like this to be a really comprehensive showcase of all the things nurses CAN do!

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

V E S — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 15:05:45 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

But I need everyone's help to draw up a list of these things and put them into categories ...

[/quote]

I will see what I can come up with as a suggestion?

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 14:44:37 GMT

[quote user="Victoria Stearman"]Though we have to be careful what is suggested here, as some of those procedures on the list RVNs are most definitely not allowed to do!!! (e.g. cat castrates, dental extractions, induction of anaesthesia......)[/quote]

Yes, I thought as much, I was just posting the list that came off the RCVS Schedule 3 Consultation as a starting point for discussion (I was surprised to see castrates and extractions on there).

[quote user="Victoria Stearman"]I think its a great idea to showcase the profession, I don't think many people really understand what we do! [/quote]

V E S glad you like the idea, and I couldn't agree more re:

[quote user="Victoria Stearman"]I think really practical tasks would be good, such as placing central lines, feeding tubes, suturing, as I don't think many people know we can do these.[/quote]

But I need everyone's help to draw up a list of these things and put them into categories ...

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

V E S — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 13:12:36 GMT

I think its a great idea to showcase the profession, I don't think many people really understand what we do! When i first started working as a VN, my Dad bless his heart just didn't realise the extent we do, insteasd thought we just 'wait around the back' until the vet comes back with an animal to do something

Though we have to be careful what is suggested here, as some of those procedures on the list RVNs are most definitely not allowed to do!!! (e.g. cat castrates, dental extractions, induction of anaesthesia......) I think really practical tasks would be good, such as placing central lines, feeding tubes, suturing, as I don't think many people know we can do these.

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 12:42:02 GMT

So from the recent RCVS schedule 3 consultation, nurses said they were:

Caring for hospitalised animals
Nursing clinic/counselling
Nutritional advice/counselling
Behaviour consultations
Placement of catheters, intravenous
Placement of catheters, urinary
Planning nursing care
Administration of medication
Placement of feeding tubes
Setting up & administration of intravenous fluids
Administration of vaccinations
Administration of medicines by subcutaneous injection
Administration of medicines by intravenous injection
Administration of medicines by intramuscular injection
Dispensing of medications to clients
Administration of other preventative POM-Vs such as endo- and ecto-parasiticides
Administration of anaesthetic pre-medication
Giving local anaesthesia
Induction of anaesthesia by increment
Induction of anaesthesia by set dose
Monitoring of anaesthesia
Laboratory test interpreting e.g. in house cytology and blood smears
Dental hygiene work
Suturing and wound management
Performing dental extractions
Performing cat castrations
Performing calf castrations
Performing disbudding (i.e. removing the horn buds from young calves)
Performing supernumerary teat removal
Carrying out TB testing
Clinical cleaning (e.g. consulting rooms, theatre, instruments)
Taking radiographs
Processing radiographs
Assisting with ultrasound
Performing in-house laboratory tests
Taking blood samples
Teaching/supervising student VNs
Visiting clients
Reception work
Practice administration
General domestic cleaning

and a few said following surgical procedures (and I am not clear whether all are Schedule 3):

Lump removal
Aural haematoma
Wound suturing & management
Tail amputation
Lance/flush/drain abscesses
Biopsy
Castration (cat)
Amputation (toe)
Placing central lines
Dew claw removal
Ear flush
Other (3 or fewer responses per procedure)

Looking at this list, I think we need to categorise into main areas, then classify each photo within those areas, so, for example (these aren't all correct!):

General Nursing
- Caring for hospitalised animals
- Placement of catheters, intravenous
- Placement of catheters, urinary
- Planning nursing care
- Administration of medication
- Placement of feeding tubes
- Setting up & administration of intravenous fluids
- Suturing and wound management
- Taking blood samples
- Carrying out TB testing
- Clinical cleaning (e.g. consulting rooms, theatre, instruments)
Nurse Clinics
- Nursing clinic/counselling
- Nutritional advice/counselling
- Behaviour consultations
- Dental hygiene work
- Administration of vaccinations
- Administration of medicines by subcutaneous injection
- Administration of medicines by intravenous injection
- Administration of medicines by intramuscular injection
- Dispensing of medications to clients
- Administration of other preventative POM-Vs such as endo- and ecto-parasiticides
Imaging
- Taking radiographs
- Processing radiographs
- Assisting with ultrasound
Anaesthesia
- Administration of anaesthetic pre-medication
- Giving local anaesthesia
- Induction of anaesthesia by increment
- Induction of anaesthesia by set dose
- Monitoring of anaesthesia
Laboratory
- Performing in-house laboratory tests
- Laboratory test interpreting e.g. in house cytology and blood smears
Minor Surgery
- Performing dental extractions
- Performing cat castrations
- Performing calf castrations
- Performing disbudding (i.e. removing the horn buds from young calves)
- Performing supernumerary teat removal

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 12:13:22 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]I think its important to remember that we live and work in the real world, not some film set where things are perfectly staged and 'bloopers' never (?) happen.[/quote] Sure, just don't want anything that might get someone into trouble.

[quote user="Alison Clare Hickman"]I agree, needs be a real-stuff image but tbh that's not what the public want to see (done a small poll of my mates - 10 people). The 'yucky stuff' needs to be sanitised unfortunately, it would seem; and that includes images of syringes and needles apparently.[/quote]

Hmm, I suppose I would ask the question whether we need or want to show the public just what it wants to see.

I think the main objective here is to show practice owners and vets how veterinary nurses' skills are used to best effect in practice. That's mainly what this is about - getting those practices who DO use their nurses properly to think what more they can be doing, and to show the practices who only ever delegate a mop what they are missing.

Secondarily, yes, it's about greater public awareness / respect.

In that context, I don't know that it is a bad thing for the public to see a syringe, or some blood. In other words, the fact that I dislike the sight of blood might mean I actually respect the person even more, because they are doing a job I wouldn't touch with a bargepole if that makes sense.

BUT, actually, doesn't matter too much. We could have a gallery with ALL images (inc blood and syringes!), for use in the profession (ie password protected here), and share the more benign ones in a new gallery open to the public.

I have started putting together a new gallery ... here (very basic at the mo, but it does work!):

https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/registered-veterinary-nurses/m/veterinary-nurse-roles/

My plan is to categorise by task. Will get the categories up and running later today ...

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 09:39:20 GMT

Oh crikey, photo-shop anyone... I agree, needs be a real-stuff image but tbh that's not what the public want to see (done a small poll of my mates - 10 people). The 'yucky stuff' needs to be sanitised unfortunately, it would seem; and that includes images of syringes and needles apparently.

Our fellow professionals should be advised to be, erm, professional, about what they see and refrain from overt criticism to point score.

So: two types of approach: 1. for the public 2. for our fellow professionals. Yes?

Ali h

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Sal the 1st — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 09:21:49 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="apache"]I took a picture today of our SVN doing an aural haematoma op, but it includes her face and the op is rather bloody so not one for public consumption.

Then I look at the picture a bit harder and she has some loose hair and we did it in prep rather than sterile theatre so she's just wearing nurses uniform not scrubs (is draped up and wearing sterile gloves). I then think people will start to judge these things and it feels like a worse idea......[/quote]

Reminds me - I filmed a video of a vet performing a surgical procedure for VS and VN, in which he wasn't wearing a mask. Or maybe he was wearing a mask. I forget. Either way it turned into "maskgate", with people posting comments about how he should / should not (delete as applicable) have been wearing a mask!

Again apache - I think it's all about curation - making sure that images are of suitable tasks, and making sure they don't have any bloopers.

I think also important to remember that these are not 'showee offee' pictures which set you up for a fall. They are championing the profession and what you can do. So for another nurse to pick holes in a photo would be really shooting themselves in the foot! That said, they have to be above criticism from vets too.

[/quote]

I think its important to remember that we live and work in the real world, not some film set where things are perfectly staged and 'bloopers' never (?) happen. Perhaps that is part of the problem - people are too keen on picking holes in what everybody else is doing to make themselves look better than everybody else

RE: Championing the role of veterinary nurses

Nichola231 — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 09:07:23 GMT

Count me in