Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

bumble bee — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 15:34:44 GMT

Thanks for all your comments. We do work well as a team when we are short. That is the best thing about the situation.we now have 1 new nurse who is due to sit her OSCE's this weekend & a student due to start shortly. We have been getting locums in too. Things are looking up, but it has been a hard few months. Tests the metal of a good nurse though!! Only the strong survive!!!

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Robyn — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 18:12:14 GMT

[quote user="bumble bee"]

We have lost 3 nurses in the past 4 months & another has just handed in her notice Boo!! We cannot seem to find any replacement nurses anywhere. I do think it is down to pay scale but we are still expected to cover the same work load & weekends. Between the remaining nurses we are worried we are all going to burn out & with flu looming we cant afford anyone to be off sick but with people working whislt sick it is just passing it around. No one is getting better. We have occasional locums covering holidays but it is not enough. I am terrified that someone else is going to go....

[/quote]

I have been in the exact same spot for months now, and just as things were picking up someone's had to head away on sick leave for around a month (I absolutely don't hold it against them!). The most important thing is to TAKE CARE OF YOURSELVES! Make sure you're working together to get as much time off as you can allow, make sure you're splitting tasks evenly and have really regular reviews to make sure everyone's coping okay, have regular meetings if you can where you can all chat and see if there's anything that needs improving. The best way to cope is to really work together to ease the load as much as possible. Make sure everything is being prioritised too - idk who's responsible for your non-clinical cleaning of staff areas and things like that, but focus all your energy on your patients and your clients first. And if you have any spare vets, put them to work ;)

The other thing to do if you can is to push for more locum cover at every possible opportunity, and have all your nurses involved. No-one seemingly ever has any money to afford more locum shifts, but it'll be worse if they don't have any nurses left by the end of things, so management needs to understand how far you're being stretched. As often as you chat about how you need more locums between yourselves, mention it to management. If you have any role in booking appointments, try to see if you can keep things lighter too. I've found that not having any ops in at all one day a week has made a huge difference to being able to catch up with things!

I hope you find new staff soon!!

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Ben Ogden — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:08:36 GMT

a)general cleaning/ housekeeping - 10%

b) clinical cleaning 20%

c) patient care/ kennels 30%

d) reception duties / admin 30%

e) sched 3 - 10%

These are what I would prefer to be doing now, 6-8 years ago however;

a)general cleaning/ housekeeping - 10%

b) clinical cleaning 10%

c) patient care/ kennels 40%

d) reception duties / admin 10%

e) sched 3 - 30%

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Celine — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 23:10:46 GMT

Haha I just saw that and tried to bump it up for you as I think it's a great question - it has now averaged to 2.5 stars maybe it was just a slide of a thumb as someone scrolled down the page.. (and the reason I haven't answered is because I don't work in practice X)

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Sal the 1st — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 19:20:38 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

ok lets try a different angle on this - open to anybody to answer

of the working day what percentage of time is acceptable

a)general cleaning/ housekeeping

b) clinical cleaning

c) patient care/ kennels

d) reception duties / admin

e) sched 3

lets get some actual figures we can work with

[/quote]

ooh obviously struck a nerve with somebody with a one star rating wasnt even a trick question

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Leah Zykin — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 18:49:43 GMT

[quote user="apache"]

Bloods and cannulas are schedule 3. For this to work it needs consistency.

[/quote]

I know they are hence my side note. Like I explained, Ive been lucky in practice where it is the norm for nurses to do this and not think anything of it, therefore I personally can not (or wish to) dedicate the same amount of time to stitch ups etc as taking bloods as even though they are classed under the same schedule, they are wholly different to me.

It might not be consistent but that seems to be the point of these threads - there are nurses who wish to fully utilise schedule 3 and those who do not. I am in the latter, but I have consistently placed catheters and taken bloods and would be sad if I no longer did this and it would be incorrect and misleading to record it otherwise.

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Denise Cooke — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 18:47:00 GMT

Opps no lol

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Sal the 1st — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 17:46:42 GMT

[quote user="apache"]

I started the thread below to try an put a positive slant on things to see what could be learnt:

https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/veterinary-nurse-forum/f/5/t/30831.aspx

I got a handful of helpful replies but not many. It seems people are not satisfied but not interested in discussing change and what could be done about it.

[/quote]

I know you did and I for one appreciate your interaction on here. I agree there is more time spent on here moaning than there is putting forward ideas. I was taught if you want to present a problem/issue effectively think around the problem/do your homework and present a possible solution alongside, it lends weight to your case.

I can come up with at least one solution straight away for those that don't want to take part in general cleaning/housekeeping but I know that wont go down well either. My solution would be everybody takes a cut or forgoes a wage rise and the practice employs a part time cleaner for the general cleaning if nobody really wants to do it.

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

apache — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 15:57:13 GMT

[quote user="Leelee484"]I personally have been fortunate enough to not encounter a clinic that won't let me place catheters or take blood-for that reason I have included this in my patient care percentage as it was such a common part of my day.[/quote]

Bloods and cannulas are schedule 3. For this to work it needs consistency.

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]The silence is deafening[/quote]

I started the thread below to try an put a positive slant on things to see what could be learnt:

https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/veterinary-nurse-forum/f/5/t/30831.aspx

I got a handful of helpful replies but not many. It seems people are not satisfied but not interested in discussing change and what could be done about it.

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Sal the 1st — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:43:40 GMT

yes it does make sense - thank you for your reply

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Leah Zykin — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:40:05 GMT

a)general cleaning/ housekeeping - 5%

b) clinical cleaning - 30%

c) patient care/ kennels - 50%

d) reception duties / admin - 10%

e) sched 3 - 5%

I personally have been fortunate enough to not encounter a clinic that won't let me place catheters or take blood-for that reason I have included this in my patient care percentage as it was such a common part of my day.

My schedule 3 percentage is more about minor surgery such as stitch ups etc-if a vet asks me to do it then no problem but I don't seek it out and am perfectly happy not doing much schedule 3, it's just not my thing.

I don't mind a bit of housekeeping but I think it should be done on a rota basis with all the staff.

Hope that all makes sense x

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Sal the 1st — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 11:09:35 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

ok lets try a different angle on this - open to anybody to answer

of the working day what percentage of time is acceptable

a)general cleaning/ housekeeping

b) clinical cleaning

c) patient care/ kennels

d) reception duties / admin

e) sched 3

lets get some actual figures we can work with

[/quote]

anybody else able to quantify the time that they think would be reasonable to spend in each area? Its not a trick question, there are no rights and wrongs, but it might be useful to work out what everybody wants. The silence is deafening

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Sal the 1st — Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:07:11 GMT

thanks (you have 110% there did you realise?)

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Denise Cooke — Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:02:45 GMT

a) general cleaning/ housekeeping 10%

B) Clinical cleaning 20%

C) Patient care/kennels 30%

D) Reception duties/admin 20%

E) Sched 3 20%

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Sal the 1st — Sat, 20 Jan 2018 13:55:02 GMT

would you be able to break it down just roughly into percentages in the areas I have listed? it might just help to see where things can be changed

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Denise Cooke — Sat, 20 Jan 2018 13:31:12 GMT

I dont mind the cleaning as long i able to do sched 3 stuff include consults etc. But I not their to wash other people cups or work for them. I be a team player and will always do my job to the best of my skills. But i like to be used correctly and not you just a cleaner.

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Sal the 1st — Sat, 20 Jan 2018 13:08:45 GMT

ok lets try a different angle on this - open to anybody to answer

of the working day what percentage of time is acceptable

a)general cleaning/ housekeeping

b) clinical cleaning

c) patient care/ kennels

d) reception duties / admin

e) sched 3

lets get some actual figures we can work with

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Kirsty RVN — Sat, 20 Jan 2018 11:28:40 GMT

Yeah I always thought 1.5 to 2 nurses per vet as a ratio!

Cleaning doesn't bother me as long as it's balanced out with nurse duties. And as we work as a team, you all chip in with clinical cleaning. We are nurses at the end of the day not glorified cleaners (meaning none clinical). I would always expect as a nurse to clean whether it's cleaning poo, pee or blood. Or theatre and so on...

My main problem is not being utilised to our full potential as we have many skills and knowledge too and I want to utilise that. Also progression, I constantly want to learn and feel like I have purpose and be the best I can be. I have always been ambitious and want to go as high I can get but that's just me so progression is always been a problem for me with vet nursing...

But when I was 16-29 I was in a different mind set and now I feel I have reached as far as I can go but that's just me....

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Sal the 1st — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 23:09:26 GMT

in the past I have worked on the ratio of 1.5-2 nurses per vet, it worked pretty well. We had 2 vets and 4 nurses(2 qual , 2 student) but all of those nurses qualified or otherwise mucked in with cleaning, kennels and reception.

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

apache — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 22:02:46 GMT

Is the solution to have more 'kennel maid' type people? Try and concentrate the actual nursing towards the nurses and have someone else doing the cleaning/menial tasks you don't like?

I'd be interested to see how many SVNs these practices that are losing lots of nurses have. Since we became a VNTP we have been inundated with students wanting placements. To me it feels wrong to be short of nurses but not prepared to invest in their training in house. Does anyone have a feeling towards a healthy RVN:SVN ratio?

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Kirsty RVN — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 20:58:48 GMT

It seems to be happening in a lot of practices. I locum and in every practice I work in there are massively short staffed. I tend to end up covering one's that are trying to recruit and been trying for months with no luck of any candidates.

I have just been to a practice where 5 nurses left in a month. Before that 7 nurses handed there notice in and before that 4 nurses than before that 5 again so yeah I see it happen a lot.

The main reason I have sighted is low pay with unsociable hours such as ooh, not feeling valued and lack of progression and lack of utilising skills.

Many our now leaving the profession too now which is sad. I am leaving in Sept to go back to uni but just took on a locum job to replace a locum who has just joined police and seen others leave and take on other career such as Adult nursing where there are much more benefits etc.

Yeah I would find out as the above comments have said why they are leaving but those are the main reason that i have seen as a locum...

RE: Losing nurses at an extreme rate.

Denise Cooke — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 16:27:40 GMT

Do you do exit interview with the nurses to see why their leaving. I hope you dont mind which part of the country are you in ??