ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Kirsty RVN — Sat, 20 Jan 2018 11:08:43 GMT

It depends what you mean by nurses needing to change attitude!!!

More nurses need to find their voices and speak up in order to initiate change....

But than again when your up against the big folk are they listening as all this has been going on for a long time and nothing as changed so far...

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Sal the 1st — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 23:29:38 GMT

[quote user="VetNurse Anon a/c"]

And nothing will change....

[/quote]

damn right it won't - not until attitudes change .... in nurses as well as vets.

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Kirsty RVN — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 21:16:56 GMT

From my experience I have never seen nurses hung up on S3 surgery and neither do I.

I have never done any S3 surgery and if you have never done it than you can't miss it. I would need to find a practice willing to train me for starters so just doesn't bother me. Yes it would be nice to do something different and learn a new skill but that it.

The point with S3 is it's that, that sets an RVN apart from being an ANA otherwise no point being an RVN! But it just doesn't include surgery it includes other skills such as placing IVs etc.

The point with this thread is the OP was taking about a lack of general nursing. I have been a similar situation where I did no nursing not even in patients. The vet did it all so not talking about S3 surgery here.

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Flea — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 20:48:12 GMT

[quote user="Tania Ford"]

[quote user="Fiona Grogan"] I certainly dont want to pay the money to register then find myself employed as a glorified cleaner.[/quote]

It really does depend on what practice you work at, so please don't make your decision on whether to come to the UK just based on this particular forum. This post originated from what seems a very dissatisfied nurse (that tbh seems as though she should have left her current position a long time ago, and found something more to her liking instead of wanting her practice to change) I have been a vet nurse for over 30 years now and have found over the years that all practices are different. Some ive been utilised very well, and others not so much. If you want to utilise your skills to the full, then referral or emergency clinics would be your best starting point. We need more nurses, and if they need to come from afar, then so be it! Im sure most of us UK nurses will welcome you willingly :)

[/quote]

Thanks Tania. I have come from a referral hospital in Australia that truly utilised us as nurses, so while i (like everyone else) understand there is a need for cleaning, I may have to look at referral work!

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Sal the 1st — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 20:24:15 GMT

[quote user="Tania Ford"]

Now this is probably going to put the cat amongst the pigeons, but i really don't see why so many nurses are so hung up on the old schedule 3 stuff and not being able to do it?? Yes, schedule 3 stuff like taking blood samples and placing catheters SHOULD be part of our daily tasks, but i really don't understand why some nurses feel the constant need to perform surgical procedures such as lumpectomies, stitch ups etc. To me, this has always been a vets job and not really a nurses. Dont get me wrong, i enjoy surgery if i get the chance, but that's only because its something different from the daily hum drum of practice life and it is something that i am registered to do, but to me, general daily nursing tasks are what i came into the profession for way back in the dinosaur ages of the late 1980's! Leave the surgical surgery to the surgeons, and concentrate on being a good nurse and taking care of patients needs - instead of trying to be a 'mini vet'. Nurses are NOT vets and i do get angry when clients say 'why didn't you become a vet?' Our jobs are TOTALLY different but we should complement each other, instead of working against each other trying to do some of the same jobs.

I feel that most nurses would be much happier in their jobs if they stuck to what a nurse is actually supposed to be - Definition of the word Nursing - 'Nursing includes the promotion of health, prevention of illness, and the care of ill, disabled and dying patients'.

Yes, i agree in a lot of circumstances we should be paid more than someone who stocks shelves at Tesco - but lets face it, if you really want to be a Veterinary Nurse, you wont make your fortune at it. On the flip side, vets are pretty much in the same boat as us - yes they get paid better, but if it was the money they were after, they would do better to spend their 5 years of training and become a doctor or a dentist - there is far more money in that sector.

Vets become vets because of their love of animals - Nurses become nurses because of their love of animals! Money is not the be all and end all. Yes the bills have to be paid, but a job (or vocation in my instance) you love doing, in my opinion, is much higher up on my list of necessities.

So to round it off, i feel that nurses of today have far too high expectations. Nursing is nursing and so long as you get to 'nurse' patients, you really should be happy!

[/quote]

totally agree but then I'm classed as a dinosaur too from the 80's. To me it doesnt matter how nursing has changed/should change because there are still patients that need caring for - they still need to go out for a pee, they still need to be kept clean, warm, comfortable and fed - that is never going to change and that to me is what nursing is about, alongside running front of house providing a clean, hygenic, hospitable practice that clients want to visit and bring their pets to. I am also of the mindset that nursing is a vocation

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Tania Ford — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 12:49:12 GMT

So to round it off, i feel that nurses of today have far too high expectations. Nursing is nursing and so long as you get to 'nurse' patients, you really should be happy!

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Sarah Reilly — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 19:38:04 GMT

I felt very much the same in my previous practice, I spent more time on reception and cleaning then being a nurse. I actually felt very under-appreciated. I decided it was time to regain me time, so I dropped to part time and went to work in a hospital where I work as a team and work as a nurse. If this is an option for you I would definitely recommend it.

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

VetNurse Anon a/c — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 18:49:28 GMT

I do agree that it can be practice depended but let's not kid ourselves that veterinary nurses are dropping like flies!

And nothing will change....

I have locumed like some nurses have mentioned up and down the country and been in practice where I did no nursing and not utilised or valued. Maybe I have just been unfortune because if a practice needs a locum than obviously they can't keep the staff. I am just saying that as many I have locumed at have a high staff turn over. In all the years I have locumed at and been to many practices down south, Wales and up north and only two utilised the nurses well and went to large hospitals that had the scope to utilise us well.

Judging from the S3 survey it seems it's a common occurrence this lack of utilising nurses!

If there are nurses on here utilised well that's great and glad there are practice out there that value the skill set of nurses but unfortunately they are few and far between and not the reality of some nurses.

I have been in the profession years to and now in my mid 30s but going into Adult nursing now where there are many opportunities...

Referral nursing is definitely an option and will get utilised. As a nurse in my 30s I could not afford the 20k salary they was offering as well as the unsociable shifts which is an unfortunate reality for many as we need to live too. If there was year increments it might not be as bad but the fact it would stay at £20,000 it just isn't worth it.

Hospitals just find a decent one as too covered for some hospital practice where I was under utilised. I found that I was used well at the charity practice such as rspca, blue cross and rspca but whether that's because the clients are not paying so maybe they figured that clients won't be bother if the procedure gets done by a nurse I don't know!!!

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Tania Ford — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 13:53:23 GMT

[quote user="Fiona Grogan"] I certainly dont want to pay the money to register then find myself employed as a glorified cleaner.[/quote]

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

kerryfeehan — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 21:17:13 GMT

Count me in!

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 10:13:53 GMT

[quote user="Alison Clare Hickman"]Arlo Guthrie can you assist with an editorial or something similar?[/quote]

Shirley can.

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 10:01:49 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]If anybody wants to help me get a questionnaire together and circulate it I would be happy to hear from you - vets included.[/quote]

Count me in.

Arlo Guthrie can you assist with an editorial or something similar?

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Sal the 1st — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 08:30:31 GMT

[quote user="Kirsty RVN"]

We do have a basic level qualification now as in Animal Nurse Assistant!

[/quote]

we do - and it is optional unfortunately. Tweak it a bit, make it mandatory and give more people a chance to come into nursing, but I think any changes need to be driven by people working at the coal face. If anybody wants to help me get a questionnaire together and circulate it I would be happy to hear from you - vets included.

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Kirsty RVN — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 23:46:34 GMT

No I do agree and definitely need action!!!

Less complaining and more action to instigate change but I am sorry I just feel sceptical and cynical anything will change and know it's a negative outlook.

For me rather than complain I just decided to take action and train in a new profession. When it's just one nurse it's knowing where to start as I feel there are many factors not just one why nurses leave but may be if nurses banded together it might make a difference.

I can't see myself anything coming of the S3 survey as we don't get utilised as it is! We get bombarded with these surveys but no action!

As others have stated it does depend on the practice and the smaller the practice the nurse does everything but I have locum at large hospitals and not been allowed to do anything other than hold animals and clean.

We do have a basic level qualification now as in Animal Nurse Assistant! I do agree that the course is far too advanced for what we do and we don't need the degree unless it's a way into the profession like me. The law has not caught up with the current RVN. but yeah maybe we should get taught at a basic level to prepare us for S.A. practice and do advanced and add on for hospital or referral nursing! I still think we are prepared enough to know what the jobs is about but than again I was in practice for years before I got qualified but I do agree the way we are trained now just leads to disillusionment!

I don't know anymore it's just so sad!

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Sal the 1st — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 22:35:37 GMT

[quote user="Ben Ogden"]

[quote user="jojofruits"]

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]I Personally think there should be complete overhaul of the nursing training structure including general nursing as well as more advanced training. [/quote]

again?! haha

[/quote]

So what are we all going to do about it?

Thread after thread of not happy this, profession needs that.

There are lots of examples of unhappy people in unhappy positions, people advising go find somewhere that is progressive this, supportive that. Complaining, but not doing. People walking out of the profession.

There are lots of examples given of people finding nice positions and giving those examples but its still same conversation every couple of weeks.

What are we, a professional group of Veterinary Nurses, who on the whole think changes in the Veterinary Nursing Profession need to be made going to do to promote change?

We all know the RCVS need to do something about the current situation, we all talk about what changes need to happen, but where is the action?

Yes the Schedule 3 Survey came out, but lets be honest with ourselves, the RCVS can't organise a fart at a baked bean factory, do we really think anything will come of this? I'm with Sal on this one, more New Grads are being 'set loose' on the Veterinary Market, they are even more unprepared than ever and in need of growing their fundamental skills more so than I remember. Those fundamental skills are a large chunk of our nursing skills (Canulas, Radiographs, Sampling, etc). Nurses are on the drop and new grad Vets are on the rise, this is not good for the profession as a whole.

So Action:

What are priority changes the Nursing Profession need?

What measures are available to instigate change?

Alternatively, if you prefer:

Where are we now?

Where do we want to be?

How are we going to get there?

[/quote]

priority for me would be that all vets and nurses get together as a group - and I don't just mean all the usual suspects and 'big' names lets hear some more of the ordinary folks ( in the interests of safety probably frisked at the door for concealed sharp objects) and decide as a group what we think the BASIC training should entail and how it should be delivered and at what level. No point in involving the RCVS at this stage - life is too short. Once that has been decided then approach the RCVS and tell them this is what is wanted/needed

The training of nurses has to be accessible, affordable, and relevant and to me its struggling to meet any of those requirements.

Get the basics right before the specialism.

Nearly 300 nurses had their names removed from the register this week for non payment of fees - a good chunk of those I suspect are gone for good. Don't know how many qualified during the last year but I suspect we are losing them faster than we are making them?

Where are we now? - circling the plughole I reckon.

to get the ball rolling would it be possible to get some sort of questionnaire together in time for BSAVA congress or similar?

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Nick Shackleton — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:57:06 GMT

We definitely need to be pushing for protection of the title. I started that nearly 10 years ago and that’s no further forward.

definatly Agree we should start up an action group to push things forward.

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Alison Clare Hickman — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 16:18:08 GMT

100% agree Ben Ogden. You are a legend.

Action Group? Talking is cheap... and easy.

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Ben Ogden — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 13:38:59 GMT

[quote user="jojofruits"]

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]I Personally think there should be complete overhaul of the nursing training structure including general nursing as well as more advanced training. [/quote]

again?! haha

[/quote]

So what are we all going to do about it?

Thread after thread of not happy this, profession needs that.

There are lots of examples given of people finding nice positions and giving those examples but its still same conversation every couple of weeks.

What are we, a professional group of Veterinary Nurses, who on the whole think changes in the Veterinary Nursing Profession need to be made going to do to promote change?

We all know the RCVS need to do something about the current situation, we all talk about what changes need to happen, but where is the action?

So Action:

What are priority changes the Nursing Profession need?

What measures are available to instigate change?

Alternatively, if you prefer:

Where are we now?

Where do we want to be?

How are we going to get there?

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

jojofruits — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 10:11:40 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]I Personally think there should be complete overhaul of the nursing training structure including general nursing as well as more advanced training. [/quote]

again?! haha

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Robyn — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:03:03 GMT

I think it truly depends on where you are, and I think that students need to know that before they qualify! If you're in a big hospital with sensible rotas and plenty of support staff, then fab, and there shouldn't be any excuse not to do plenty of nursing imo!! If you're where I am, sole charge with an ACA and a receptionist, then you need to accept that not only are you nursing, you're also cleaning *everything*. However, in a smaller practice, you are everything but the vet, really. Where possible, there should absolutely be duty rotas at least so one nurse isn't always stuck doing the cleaning and never gets the chance to place a line!

Edit: having read things more carefully, not being allowed to do nursing tasks is bull, and I completely sympathise with anyone in that boat. Maybe vets need to be taught in school what we can do too.

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Kirsty RVN — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 19:03:49 GMT

I agree with most comments on here but I don't feel it's unrealistic expectations as others have said! I do sometimes argue that they need to dumb down the qualification or utilise us more just out of frustration mainly as I too have been in that situation numerous times. I get frustrated as not always utilised as a RVN and wonder why I pay my RCVS fee each year and I too got in debt that I feel was pointless now!

I went into locum work for that very reason as my first job as a RVN I was just a glorified cleaner and stocking practice which is fine as that's part of our job too but I did not want to lose some skills that I was not allowed to do such as cannula placement and blood sampling etc. My experience as a locum TBH just made my mind up to leave nursing too. I think if you find a locum job to cover maternity or annual leave you will probably have a different experience but because I was covering gaps where practices could not fill the vacancy my experience has not been very good from short staffed, bullying, high staff turn over, poor management and a large portion of nurses leaving in a short time. Luckily for me I locum so don't have to go back unlike the poor sods that work there but in those cases it can be the deciding factor to leave nursing also!

I have just finished a locum job which was very similar to Anon at a busy 24 hour practice where nurses did not do any nursing. 5 nurses left in a month and only had 1 full time and 1 part time RVN left plus support staff so you could feel the stress from the existing staff but they got me in as a locum for the week and in a week I held one dog for a vet to examine, stocked up, cleaned kits that's the only nursing I did. The rest was cleaning all around practice and had clean sheets in all areas that had to be filled in to include bathroom, office, toilet, store room as well as clinical areas. They was paying me £20 an hour so didn't complain but was just like what's the point of taking on a locum RVN and paying them that amount to be a glorified cleaner. I decided not to go back! But I am sorry but if a practice can afford to pay a locum to do cleaning tasks £20 an hour than they can afford a cleaner! I just want to make it clear to that no one is saying that cleaning is not in our job description but it's when it is not balanced out with nurse duties where there is a problem and the frustration kicks in!

I am leaving nursing in Sept to train as a paramedic where I will definitely use my skills and knowledge everyday on the front line, yes there will be difficult patients and yes difficult jobs I attend but the positive outweigh the negativity for me unlike nursing. Just commenting on a comment above about going back in debt. That I don't feel is something anyone should be concerned about if they are using there qualification so it won't be a waste. I feel I put myself into debt was a waste of time as I am not getting anything out of my vet nurse qualification but if you do than it's worth it! My starting salary as a new paramedic is 26k so not bad for a new grad and rises to 31k after 7 years of experience. Than if I do my masters it rises from 31k to 41k. The max I would earn if I work my way up to consultant is 68k so not bad and well worth going back through university!

You just need to do what makes you happy and life is too short! I fear we are losing good nurses and other professions are getting to benefit from our skills but I just can't see it changing. I did consider referral work as one suggested but could not live on the salary so had to decline it plus unsociable hours which just made the wage work out at NMW so decided against it and we all need to get by and pay the bills!

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 09:46:56 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"][quote user="VetNurse Anon a/c"]My job is 99% cleaning and 1% nursing. I don't mean clinical cleaning either[/quote]

I'm not sure if this is going to come across right, but that made me laugh, in a black humour sort of way.[/quote]

[quote user="VetNurse Anon a/c"]I fail to see the funny side of it? Or is that because a nurses job is to clean?[/quote]

No, it's not a nurse's job is just to clean. I said I was laughing in a 'black humour' kind of way. In other words, there was something darkly funny (if it weren't so sad) in the way you said 'it isn't even clinical cleaning'.

Does that make sense? Probably not; I am probably digging myself a bigger hole. The point is I DO sympathise.

[quote user="VetNurse Anon a/c"]It doesn't help with the negativity that you get on here[/quote]

Who's being negative? (if you are talking about my black humour, that's just a misunderstanding, I DO sympathise and agree with you).

But I do think Sal makes a lot of sense. It does seem to me that there is often a mismatch of expectations, partly driven by the qualification itself.

But that doesn't explain your situation, where you're job is almost entirely office/toilet cleaning. I just don't understand how it makes any sense for a practice to ask a nurse to do 99% office/toilet cleaning. Apart from that being utterly demoralising for the nurse, surely it doesn't make financial sense.

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Sal the 1st — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:13:42 GMT

[quote user="Leigh Hinsley RVN NCert(BDev) MBVNA"]

I politely disagree Sal; having looked at the new NPL I feel like its so vague you could easily miss out essential parts of nursing, and because nursing is so different in one practice to another, I worry if it was made more basic that I don't think it would prepare nurses for GP let alone referral.

I feel like progress of the profession has already been made in the last 10 years, and we should continue with the hard work thats started, sadly it's going to take some old school practices a bit longer to catch up x

[/quote]

fair does but if we carry on as we are now we can expect more of the same. I agree with Nick that the training is long due an over haul, and I also agree with you on the vagaries of the new NPL. I just feel it would be better to have a mandatory basic, entry level qualification for all nursing staff on which to build rather than what we have now.

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Nick Shackleton — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:01:57 GMT

[quote user="Leigh Hinsley RVN NCert(BDev) MBVNA"]

[/quote]

I agree with you Leigh Hinsley RVN NCert(BDev) MBVNA

I Personally think there should be complete overhaul of the nursing training structure including general nursing as well as more advanced training.

RE: ARE THERE ANY DECENT VET NURSE JOBS OUT THERE???

Leigh Hinsley RVN NCert(BDev) MBVNA — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 19:48:18 GMT