Attractive Salary??

RE: Attractive Salary??

Maeve Leamy — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 21:41:18 GMT

Its just not a uk issue..even in Ireland where the title is protected, wages are an issue. We have the same issues where pay is still very hush hush. From my experience after a few years since i qualified..an hourly rate in Ireland can be from €9.50-€12/13, which is £8-£11..and salary can range from €18,000-€24,000/26,000 which converts to £15869-£23000..the top end of the range is few and far between of course.. all these competitive salary ads are very similar to how employers here advertise..bt its more like salary commensutare with experience..love those ads

RE: Attractive Salary??

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:39:25 GMT

[quote user="Laura Pandolfi"]Hi I'm new to VetNurse[/quote]

Hi Laura Pandolfi and welcome to the forums.

[quote user="Laura Pandolfi"]so unsure how this works[/quote]

You seem to have cracked it OK!

Basically, just chip into the discussions as and when you feel like it ... and ...

[quote user="Laura Pandolfi"]I hope this helps?[/quote]

Yup

RE: Attractive Salary??

Laura Pandolfi — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 22:59:58 GMT

Hi I'm new to VetNurse so unsure how this works however came across this forum wanting to know how much nurses are on.

I'm a third year degree student nurse who should have qualified July 2018 however after failing my practical have had to resit the failed module and return to studying part time. Throughout this resit year I have earned a range of salaries in the last 12 months whilst trying to find a practice that it suitable. To answer this forum's question employed as an SVN in the North East I was paid £7.49 per hour working in charity, £7.69 working in a co-operate partnership practice and about to start at a private vets earning £8.17.

I hope this helps?

RE: Attractive Salary??

Sal the 1st — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 19:09:03 GMT

[quote user="Kirsty RVN"]

This is a very interesting thread and important one indeed but do feel the resistance in some more experienced nurses! Same when we had the discussion on progression.

[/quote]

it isn't really resistance on my part - its more a case that I am satisfied with the job I am doing and the wage I am earning - but we are all different and some people may not be as lucky as me in having a job and a wage that ticks the boxes. I don't have a problem at all with people wanting a higher wage or better conditions or career progression or anything else for that matter but when you are asking for everybody to 'take a stand' you need to realise that there are always going to be people like me around. We aren't accepting less to make it awkward or harder for others we accept less because we are happy with what we have. Hope that explains it a bit better

RE: Attractive Salary??

Kirsty RVN — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 18:41:14 GMT

This is a very interesting thread and important one indeed but do feel the resistance in some more experienced nurses! Same when we had the discussion on progression.

Alison just in response to your comments about re the £41k Mark, sorry just thought it was because I mentioned the comparison in human nurses but I didn't take their post to mean that's what we should earn to! I think they meant that if a practice can afford to pay that amount on a locum surely they can pay a decent wage and keep a perm nurse.

I am a locum and my salary is just over £33k take home pay after tax, when I interview I get offered 16k to 20k if lucky so why would I choose to come out of locum work for that where as if was offered the 22 to 26k mark I would definitely consider a perm job. I think that was the point!

TBH it seems that it is getting slightly better and seen some advertising at 20-26k and even seen jobs advertise at 28k and 30k so it's getting there. And as Jane says above once practices utilise us and see our full potential it may get better and will be viewed more valuable to the practice!

The average salary has gone up over recent years so it's getting there!

But as previous posts have said we need to realise our worth and take a realistic stand!

I don't think 21 to 26k is unreasonable for a RVN and if progression becomes a thing I don't think it would be unfair to expect to be compensated for that but that remains to be seen!

RE: Attractive Salary??

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 16:53:27 GMT

[quote user="jojofruits"]but I'm worth it[/quote]

L'Oreal flick

RE: Attractive Salary??

jojofruits — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 16:20:59 GMT

Really interesting reading..

I have to say though that in my last 3 positions I have negotiated salaries higher than the employers thought they were willing to pay ;) .. but I'm worth it - there are very few really experienced nurses out there and I reckon I almost pay for myself, I certainly did in my last job!

RE: Attractive Salary??

Ben Ogden — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 14:51:39 GMT

[quote user="Tania Ford"]

I see recently that companies are advertising jobs with an 'attractive salary', but not actually stating what the minimum/maximum salary on offer is - or any figure for that matter!

How much longer will it take for companies to realise that 'attractive' is only 'attractive' if you know what is on offer!

Rant over lol - just wanted to get it out there!

[/quote]

It's Mumbo Jumbo language and means about as much to me as writing nothing. If you can't be forthright and tell me what your budget is (and if your telling me you haven't arranged a budget, your probably a poor investment anyway) then I don't want to know.

RE: Attractive Salary??

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 10:56:49 GMT

I'm happy, so that's one person not offended whatsoever! I get why you asked in the first place. Am sure others do too... Happy place, happy place, happy place

If you are thinking you want to review your salary, making a comparison to another persons salary is only a beginning and tiny part of a negotiation process. It serves only, IMO, to start you off on a quest to review your own salary if you feel you are equal to or exceeding the skills of a colleague who is paid more than you.

The conversation with your boss, to be most effective, really should not be 'He has and I don't' but based on a far more positive 'This is what I can give to you' script. Stamping your feet and saying 'it's not fair' (even if that's true) is not likely to gain you the outcome you desire.

I understand why employers don't like colleagues discussing salaries as they might get more applications for an increase . However, that's business and there's no shame (IMO) in utilising the good old economics of Demand and Supply - although this is balanced with respect, loyalty and common-sense, when I make a decision. I have a good heart AND good business sense.

With regard to comparisons - I have always kept an eye out for equivalent roles (usually job ads - that's another reason why I'd like to see more clarity!) to compare to my own. It has paid me well (literally) to be aware of my role's financial value and negotiate accordingly.

Well that's just me. Please don't be offended by me. Or, if you are - tell me and we can have a good old debate! I like a debate. #talksthehindlegsoffadonkeyme

Love you all, each and every one.

Ali h

RE: Attractive Salary??

Robyn — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 10:53:33 GMT

[quote user="Tania Ford"]

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]I don't understand why it is so important to know what everybody else is getting. [/quote]

It wasn't that I personally wanted to particularly know anyone's salary - it was more of a test to see just how open people would be!

[/quote]

Salary openness is weirdly important as it turns out. It allows people to fight for much fairer wages and it's super important in ensuring we actually have equal pay. Remember the BBC nonsense last year where it was leaked how much it's presenters were earning, and the disparity between men and women? One of the major reasons why this happens and companies can get away with it is us being secretive about how much we earn. A few of the Scandinavian governments actually publish salary data annually, and surprise surprise, they have some of the best wage equality and standards of living in the world. If you know what everyone else is getting, you can argue/negotiate much better, and companies don't have a screen to hide behind.

That in mind, I'm on £17,500 salaried sole nurse with 50hr weeks, qualified 2.5 years and this is the only practice I've ever worked.

RE: Attractive Salary??

Tania Ford — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 10:46:32 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Tania Ford No, no, no, no, no, it's not causing a 'uge Who Ha! Sometimes easy to read that into a written forum post, but I really don't believe that to be the case here, and you've raised an important and interesting subject which in turn raises some other interesting talking points[/quote]

Okely dokely lol. This was how i was hoping people would take my request on salary details. I would hate to upset people and cause ructions over salaries.

RE: Attractive Salary??

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 10:39:38 GMT

[quote user="Tania Ford"]If it is going to cause a huge Who Ha (which it seems to have done for certain people), i am happy to retract my request for average salaries and to trying to get the profession to not be so secretive about salaries. I will leave the thread as it is and comment no more :( [/quote]

Tania Ford No, no, no, no, no, it's not causing a 'uge Who Ha! Sometimes easy to read that into a written forum post, but I really don't believe that to be the case here, and you've raised an important and interesting subject which in turn raises some other interesting talking points ... like ...

[quote user="Alison Clare Hickman"]Keeping your salary schtum appears to be a peculiarity of the British... we need to get over it, methinks [/quote]

Yes, it is a bit of a British thing, it being considered sort of a bit 'vulgar' to talk about what one earns, but I think that changing (slowly).

RE: Attractive Salary??

Tania Ford — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 09:32:35 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]According to all this should I now be kicking off that I am paid the same rate as our nursing assistants (which is more than some of the qualified nurses are being paid locally) or should I just be pleased we are all working for a decent boss who is paying what he thinks we are worth?[/quote]

The last thing i would want is for this whole thread to turn into a big Who Ha about salaries - my main aim was just trying to get future employers to actually state what salary was on offer, instead of using the stupid words 'attractive' and 'competitive' in their recruitment adverts and to maybe try to make them aware of what nurses are actually being paid across the country!

If it is going to cause a huge Who Ha (which it seems to have done for certain people), i am happy to retract my request for average salaries and to trying to get the profession to not be so secretive about salaries. I will leave the thread as it is and comment no more :(

RE: Attractive Salary??

Sal the 1st — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 09:22:11 GMT

I don't have a problem discussing my salary at all - never have, but I do have a problem when it turns into a 'she's getting x amount why aren't I getting the same' I have seen this cause no end of problems within practice - in fact some practices it is written into your contract that you do not discuss salary with other colleagues for this very reason.

According to all this should I now be kicking off that I am paid the same rate as our nursing assistants (which is more than some of the qualified nurses are being paid locally) or should I just be pleased we are all working for a decent boss who is paying what he thinks we are worth?

RE: Attractive Salary??

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 09:10:47 GMT

[quote user="Tania Ford"]It wasn't that I personally wanted to particularly know anyone's salary - it was more of a test to see just how open people would be! [/quote]

I used to work with Americans and they do not have any problem telling you, even up-front, what they earn. In fact, it seemed to be an integral part of the male chat-up routine to boast about their income and other financial assets ("laying out a stall of glory to attract a honey", as one friend put it, LOL).

Keeping your salary schtum appears to be a peculiarity of the British... we need to get over it, methinks

RE: Attractive Salary??

Tania Ford — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 09:03:48 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]I don't understand why it is so important to know what everybody else is getting. [/quote]

It wasn't that I personally wanted to particularly know anyone's salary - it was more of a test to see just how open people would be!

RE: Attractive Salary??

kerryfeehan — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 19:43:31 GMT

Seems as though £10 an hour is a frequent figure for an experienced RVN...not quite so happy with my £9 an hour!

RE: Attractive Salary??

Sal the 1st — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 19:36:42 GMT

[quote user="Tania Ford"]

Also.........I am very surprised that over 700 people have read my original post, but obviously still feel as though they wish to keep their salary secret (which i understand is totally their prerogative). - it just seems a shame, as so far as i can see, being open and honest is one of the easiest ways to change all the secretiveness around salary debates :(

Massive big up to those few who did actually try to be honest as i think it has highlighted just how little, as Para-Professionals we are generally paid!

[/quote]

I don't understand why it is so important to know what everybody else is getting. My take on it is if its a wage I am happy with then its ok - but to satisfy your curiosity I am on £10.50 an hour - which is higher than quite a few of the other local practices. I work 37.5 hours a week and take 30 mins unpaid lunch break when I get chance . I start at 10.30 in the morning and finish at 6.30 at night (or thereabouts). I currently work for a small animal 1st opinion independant which does its own on call. I qualified in '96 but have been in this business full time (with the exception of a 9mth break) since '84 , starting as a Saturday girl in 1982. I am on the same rate as the nursing assistants I work alongside. I am on the same rate as a nephew who works the tills at Aldi and more than a friend who stacks and picks for Tesco. I am on less than another nephew and a niece who are both trainee managers for Aldi, and slightly more than another friend who works in catering - but I am happy with what I am getting for the job I do. I did earn more as a locum but that came at a price of working in some incredibly miserable places with some equally miserable people. I have worked in small first opinion practices, large hospitals, referrals, corporates, large animal, small animal. I hope that tells you all you need to know.

edit - I work in North Lincolnshire

RE: Attractive Salary??

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 18:20:02 GMT

[quote user="Tania Ford"]My hope is that companies actually use the facility to show what salary is on offer and not just ignore it.[/quote]

Well, my take is that this is all about changing attitudes, which is helped (hopefully) by sites like vetnurse.co.uk 'normalising' (hate that word) the idea of displaying salaries, by making it part of the process of posting an advert.

There is a bigger picture going on as well, which is that Google is launching a job search feature (it's happened in the US, but not so far in the UK), which some people believe will give prominence to job adverts that DO show a salary, partly because (they say) there is quite a bit of research which shows that job adverts which display a salary general deliver a better response than those which don't.

So although some advertisers are somewhat fearful of displaying salaries (for a multitude of different reasons, some very understandable), I am confident that if we can show that it helps fill the job, they'll be persuaded. It may take a while before everyone does it, but I'm confident they will eventually. It's the way the world is going!

[quote user="Tania Ford"]Good on you Arlo![/quote]

Pleasure is all mine!

RE: Attractive Salary??

Tania Ford — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 17:18:27 GMT

Massive big up to those few who did actually try to be honest as i think it has highlighted just how little, as Para-Professionals we are generally paid!

RE: Attractive Salary??

Tania Ford — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 17:08:07 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Will post in more detail later, but have just finished a telephone conference with developers, and introduction of salary / benefits is our immediate priority[/quote]

My hope is that companies actually use the facility to show what salary is on offer and not just ignore it. Sadly i think that they will continue to advertise stupid things like 'competitive' and 'attractive', rather than fess up and get to the nitty gritty of what they are actually offering :(

On a more positive note though, it is great to hear that Vetnurse.co.uk (Arlo specifically) has our best interests at heart and wants to try to change the way things are at present.

Good on you Arlo!

RE: Attractive Salary??

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 15:48:24 GMT

[quote user="Alison Clare Hickman"]A recent thread that you'll find common ground with... Arlo Guthrie might be our saviour yet!

https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/veterinary-nurse-forum/f/5/t/30843.aspx[/quote]

Will post in more detail later, but have just finished a telephone conference with developers, and introduction of salary / benefits is our immediate priority - I wouldn't like to put a date on it, but we are talking weeks, not months!

RE: Attractive Salary??

Denise Cooke — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 15:17:44 GMT

Hi my personality views, is now I won't take less then £10.50 hours in any practice. As I know i need to live and this would put me on my bottom of the line and not have much to spend on luxuries in life.

I had to move back home after 7 years of living on my own. As I found it so hard to cover the basic bills by my self. I feel that in the south east of the country we need that bit extra. I just have got a nursing job which pays me more then my mum. She is a night worker in a supermarket and gets £11.50 a hour to put stock out.

I feel that RVN need to stand together to push the wage up as we need to be be able to live and afford to.

RE: Attractive Salary??

JaneRVN — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 15:02:13 GMT

This blog is mainly about SIII survey but scroll down to the table from Wendy Sneddon - the figures on what vet nurses can earn a practice if fully utilised are yet to be fully realised.

There is money in vet practice to pay nurses better - but as vet nurse income generated is rarely recorded the way a vets income generated is then it has hard to get accurate figures. This reduces our financial visibility and limits our ability to negotiate better salaries as what we are "worth" is hidden. As noted in another blog.

RE: Attractive Salary??

Alison Clare Hickman — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 14:42:03 GMT

Kirsty RVN - this was the reference I was talking about, not you...

[quote user="VetNurse Anon a/c"]As a locum working nights I earn £41000pa if was to do it for full year as this practice has not recruited a nurse for 12 months so if willing to pay a locum that amount why not pay a perm nurse a decent wage??[/quote]

Agree re apprenticeship scheme - it has it's place but has been bastar*ised by those who would employ people for pennies and take advantage; just roll the person out of the door as soon as they begin to cost something more reasonable. It happens in other professions, believe me. Apprenticeships used to be about learning a trade from the ground up and staying in the job to become a Master. Not nowadays. (Don't get me onto one of the (politically motivated) reasons why it was re-introduced in the first place; to reduce the statistical levels of unemployment... here's me going rant-tatty-rantle-boo!!). That said, worked properly, it does give a foot in the door for some that would otherwise perhaps not get an opportunity...

Yes, we have indeed gone off on a tangent. So I'll be quiet now unless I have more to say about the OP (not promising tho, hahahah!!)

Ali h xxx