How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Alison Clare Hickman — Fri, 08 Dec 2017 09:08:16 GMT

Ben Ogden - again, agree totally. Are we twins?!

Bit of a tangent - VS seem to be arguing for equal respect / recognition of General Practitioners and their absolute necessity versus Specialists. See extract from latest edition of VetTimes.

My mind says - space for everyone. Different but equal. Let's find the way.

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Ben Ogden — Fri, 08 Dec 2017 08:57:18 GMT

[quote user="Kirsty RVN"]

You talk about historically but times have moved on from there. The training is much more in depth and harder than what we need for what we end up doing. There are always going to be general nurses and auxiliaries!

In terms of expectations we always know the expectation. I was working in practice for years before I got qualified. I think what we don't expect is the level of training as I thought it was at a basic level

In terms of not happy and leaving practice like Ben has said believe me I have done that plenty of times. I would never stay at a practice I was not utilised. As I mentioned in a previous post I started at a practice where I was not allowed to place catheters, position for radiographs or anything just cleaning. I did speak to them and they told me the head vet does not trust nurses to do it and would rather it was a vet so handed my notice in three days later so I would not stick around.

In terms of me saying a glorified cleaner, don't get me wrong I am happy cleaning if I am utilising my skills. There is a balance. I have never said I am above cleaning but I spent a fortune on a degree and heavily in debt with plus years of assignments and exams and training so I expect to utilise my skills at the end of it!

[/quote]

Times have changed, but things are still the same. RVN's are still overworked, undervalued, clients and Vets still have no understanding on what a RVN's profession actually is! Also the training has always been more in depth and challenging than what the job requires. The content of what they train students today hasn't really changed, it's just the workload they put on them that has.

The general tone across this thread is the same, RVN's as a whole (not everyone, just as a whole), are calling for long standing problems in this profession to be put right. Fingers crossed the RCVS will listen, i'm a cynical Yorkshireman though, I expect it'll be the next size up of Primapore on that ruptured Spleen

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Sal the 1st — Thu, 07 Dec 2017 21:59:42 GMT

I only made my post as an example of my day - no other reason, there was really nothing else to be read into it - it wasnt even what I would call a typical day - some days I spend a lot more time cleaning. My point was I work with 3 other nursing staff (nursing assistants) and if you take the day as I listed it with the exception of drawing a blood sample I didn't even touch on schedule 3 at all and with that exception we all pretty much do the same job. Qualified or not. I have read the report and I did take part in the consultation. The last couple of times we have tried to find qualified nursing staff we have drawn a blank or interviewed people who have turned us down which has resulted in us taking laystaff ( and the rates here are better than some qualifieds are paid) - with few exceptions they do what I do - if you want the profession to progress maybe start there and bring in a mandatory basic qualification for all nursing staff but make the qualification relevant to the practices that will be using the staff

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Kirsty RVN — Thu, 07 Dec 2017 15:11:55 GMT

I also feel from some comments that it's an attack on those in general practice and it really is not the case at all...

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Kirsty RVN — Thu, 07 Dec 2017 15:05:32 GMT

I feel like where going around in circles!

But....

It's just the current legislation that needs to change to reflect the current training and skill set of RVNs

But they are reviewing schedule three to bring it up to date so who knows...

I don't know how best to explain this and constantly feel I am beating my head against a brick wall. I respect others opinions and EVERYBODY is different and in terms of what they want out of there career but for me personally I feel I have reached all I can do in general practice and want to further and progress myself whether that's referral or not...

But this is not a battle of who is better than who which I feel this topic is now heading...

When I was training I worked three cleaning jobs. Cleaning a office during week and cleaning toilets in a nightclub at the weekend so I certainly just because I want to progress don't think I am better than anybody else or above anybody.

I don't think I am above general practice, I just want a new challenge that is all so why do people not understand that..

Sal it is so good that you do so much in your practice and I certainly would not find that boring if I worked at your practice and you do sound like you are utilised but I have been in practice where all day I was folding up body bags, litter picking in car park and general cleaning and not much else which is a complete waist after putting so much effort and money into gaining a qualification...

I don't care about cleaning if there is a fair balance of using my skills such as job satisfaction.

It's like so much resistance to nurse progression and don't understand it.

Instead of putting those of us down try embracing the future of vet nursing!

So let's get one thing straight I don't think I am above anybody.

Just because we want to utilise our skills, progress, to feel valued and recognition does not mean we think where better than anyone else.

And progression is a common felt theme by many nurses if anyone read the schedule three report....

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Sal the 1st — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 20:03:16 GMT

[quote user="Ben Ogden"]

I'll throw in some opinions here:

Historically nurses have been 1 person to many different roles, from reception to anaesthesia, clinics to cleaning. In modern day practice these aspects of Veterinary work are still required, but the modern day Veterinary Nurse is coming in qualified no longer wishing to be the workhorse jack of all.

The noise for diversity, recognition etc is getting louder and that is what is required for the profession to progress and be treated with the respect it requires, but...... practices still need that low end Veterinary work filling. It's concerning that a culture may be developing where this general work (cleaning, maintenance etc) is beneath the modern Veterinary Nurse. I'm not saying that is wrong, but if it is going that way, if you are pushing for more post nominals, more clinics, more responsibility, more prescribing, more this and that, then who is flying the flag to better promote, hire and use the Auxiliary role?

You could end up with generations of Veterinary Nurses so busy puffing up thier chest and holding their head up high with qualifications that they overlook that kennel in need of cleaning or the kits that want packing because maintaining the day to day running of the practice and it's hygiene etc is still a role. This is one of the downsides of how the NHS drove up the nurse role without properly managing who picks up the tasks the general Nurse left behind.

If your Vets or Practice isn't using you how you think you could be utilised, you could either push and fight for better, or talk with your feet and leave, go to the practices that do support nurses and progression. A Veterinary Surgery is one that won't run very well or effectively without it's nurse team, and those not retaining nurses will soon change it's tune on how RVN's are used.

[/quote]

couldn't have put it better myself

as an example this was my day yesterday - might be boring for some people but maybe I am easily pleased?

short spell on reception, (its my week in theatre/prep)

got theatre and prep ready to go

drew anaesthetics for ops

drew blood on a dog which was admitted for investigation, ran blood, made and stained a blood smear ,lasercyte result suspect so did a pcv (lasercyte result was definitely suspect), did a Saline Agglutination. Prepped for ultrasound. Set up fluids

monitored a couple of anaesthetics,

took an xray

scrubbed and packed and sterilised a couple of kits

cleaned theatre/prep

mopped floors

packed swab for the lab

grabbed something to eat

did a bit of filing

quick look to see what needed ordering

filled out some insurance claims

evening surgery reception but also discharged day patients and cleaned kennels, loaded washer

sent order

did cash up

swept floors front of house

went home.

I work with 3 nursing assistants (2 of those are part time) and either 1 or 2 vets. Everybody does a bit of everything and together we get the job done. None of the nursing staff are any more important than anybody else and as far as I am aware we are all paid the same rate - nobody really specialises (although admittedly I do like to work with cats). Maybe I am under utilised ? but I reckon I give value for money with the work I put in. True I have done nurses clinics at other places I have worked and other more specialised stuff but they just don't seem to want them here so I do what is needed.

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 19:59:20 GMT

hiya, I understand your point entirely which is that your education exceeds what you can actually do with it. So, do you think a change in how nurses are being educated will attract a more suitably developed skills set / more fit for purpose; and if so, what level of academic achievement do you think this should be?

Ali h

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Kirsty RVN — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 16:56:04 GMT

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 15:47:19 GMT

Ben Ogden well said.

I hasten to add that I think this thread is fair as it highlights the frustration felt by the numbers of RVN's who DO want career progression or to specialise/diversify in practice (and be rewarded for it).

Those RVN's still happy (and remaining happy) as a 'General Practitioner' and being treated well for it have (so far) remained relatively quiet. However I do take the point that the current education system (and resulting expectations) may well have over-qualified nurses for a GP role in (some) practices.

SO, here we go...from a happy RVN who went into the profession with an understanding of it's limitations and excitements BEFORE she gained her qualifications. (In my view an important issue and possibly not well researched by many)

*I* am happiest being the backbone of a practice (with some specialism in geriatrics as previously mentioned) and do the traditional cleaning, organising, supporting and caring nursing role. I take great pride in this. I aspire to achieving cleaning, disinfection and sterilisation routines that are second to none. If my vet is happy and getting what they need when they need it; if my patients and clients are happy and getting what they need and when they need it - *I* am a happy nurse. I expanded my skills-base into Geriatrics to add interest and value to my role (for my additional satisfaction as a nurse) and importantly added £££ value to my practice pocket.

I see nursing as having various levels in the future but WITHOUT losing the grass roots level. It is a very important one.

Peace.

Ali h

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Ben Ogden — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 15:02:05 GMT

I'll throw in some opinions here:

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Kirsty RVN — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 14:00:05 GMT

I do feel complementary therapies has a place in practice and it is something nurses can make their own. A vet first sees the patient and prescribes the conventional medication and than refers to the nukrse for what ever complementary treatment it needs!

Steph that is exactly the case. We are now meant to be professionals in our own right. On a professional register and accountable for our own actions but it does not feel that way and this does lead to frustration especially when you go through three to four years worth of training, work your butt of to pass exams, than make an oath to rcvs to abide by a code of conduct, keep my skills and knowledge upto date and be accountable to my own actions!

A professional is autonomous practitioner that's has opportunities to progress!

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

steph fursland — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 12:54:18 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="steph fursland"]

+1 for acupuncture being an RVN skill, my last practice had an acupuncture nurse, she was great. If you are interested it’s a lovely clinic to do. When seeing a painful animal I would discuss all the NSAIDS/blood testing and then explain to the owner acupuncture was an option - if they were keen then the animal would be assessed and needled by the RVN. I have also been at practices offering K laser, again done by RVNs (although I am not convinced by the laser).

Re the evidence for alternative therapies - I would say to owners that we don’t have trials saying this works, but we and you will assess if it is improving the comfort, and only continue if it is, and obviously give as much analgesia as appropriate at the same time. I am happy it falls well into an RVNs remit to assess an animal’s pain level, and she was pretty much responsible for the patient.

[/quote]

Hi steph fursland

I'm sure I'm going to come in for some stick here, but I think one should be very cautious about the idea of veterinary nurses offering alternative therapies, for a lot of reasons.

Firstly, there IS a move towards evidence-based medicine in the veterinary profession. Alternative medicine is very much at odds with this - although some types of alternative medicine more so than others.

Take homeopathy, for example. The RCVS issued a new position statement on this one:

https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/b/veterinary-nursing-news/archive/2017/11/03/veterinary-regulator-blacklists-homeopathy-in-animals.aspx

So I suppose what I am trying to say is that I think it would be a shame if nurses, having fought for greater professional recognition, then use that recognition to provide treatment for which there is precious little evidence (I am not talking specifically about acupuncture here).

The other thing is when you say: "OK, there are no trials, but we can assess response ourselves."

I'm NOT having a dig at you - really I'm not! But have you seen this study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23113523

It shows how bad owners AND VETERINARY SURGEONS are at assessing response to a treatment for OA.

(I wrote an article about the errors in human thinking which can lead people to think a medication is working, when it isn't, here:

https://www.vetsurgeon.org/microsites/private/rational-medicine/p/homeopathy-works.aspx

... although it is talking about homeopathy, the principles apply to all medicines, both alternative and conventional)

My point is that personal observation, even by a professional, is a really flawed way of measuring response when one is talking about subjective symptoms.

Reason, for the benefit of other readers, why I am so passionate about this subject, is that I have a chronically sick little daughter with a very variable disease. One that we've tried a smorgasbord of drugs to treat - in the process of which I have fallen victim to every one of the cognitive errors I describe in the article.

So I feel passionately that treatment (not just for my daughter, but for all patients, human or animal) should be based on science. Science which eliminates the human error I talk about in that article.

I'm on a mission to try and persuade as many people as possible to be champions of science ;)

[/quote]

Arlo - I do agree with you re EBVM and the minefield that is alternative therapies - so maybe it isn't the best example, but it's somewhere I've seen a nurse run really successful clinics in her area of interest.

I think nurses, as professionals in their own right, should be subject to the same criteria for 'professionalism' i.e. practice in accordance with current veterinary practice/RCVS position; that they can evaluate the evidence and use that to inform/justify their actions; so if vets currently practice acupuncture (which lots of them do) then I don't think it's inappropriate for nurses to, although the individual nurse might decide he/she isn't convinced by the evidence and therefore not do it.

The upshot will be that not every RVN will practice in the same way, just as vets don't. I get the feeling on here that many nurses don't feel that is how they are regarded/expected to behave in practice and that it's a source of frustration for many that they aren't being seen as an 'autonomous' clinician.

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Kirsty RVN — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 10:21:31 GMT

To the other commitments above that I have not had chance to reply yet. I completely agree with you comments

And it is the reason why I am looking at leaving the profession.

They better pull their fingers out and get it sorted as more and more passionate nurses are leaving but just don't think where valued enough to the profession for that!

Maybe I have just had the worst experience as I am a locum I don't know and most places I cover for can't keep there staff I don't know!

But yeah I was once told I wasn't trusted to place a catheter and left that practice shortly after.

But than went to a practice after where the head nurse was not qualified and was placing central lines!

It's an absolute joke! No wonder we end up leaving

I did contact rcvs about certain things happening and got no response back so just goes to show how valued we are!

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Kirsty RVN — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 10:11:42 GMT

Just a comment to Arlos comments above. I agree that studies should be backed by science but after studying complementary therapies at university it is exactly that a complementary therapy and should not be relied upon sorely so other treatment plans should be there as prescribed by the vet with the complementary therapy there as a supplement of the treatment.

Just like aromatherapy as a complementary treatment but shouldn't be used for a sole purpose. That is just one example!

So I am all for it but there should always be a medical treatment plan in place with the supplementary in place as a complementary. That's why it is called complementary therapy!

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 09:18:20 GMT

[quote user="steph fursland"]

[/quote]

Hi steph fursland

I'm sure I'm going to come in for some stick here, but I think one should be very cautious about the idea of veterinary nurses offering alternative therapies, for a lot of reasons.

Take homeopathy, for example. The RCVS issued a new position statement on this one:

https://www.vetnurse.co.uk/b/veterinary-nursing-news/archive/2017/11/03/veterinary-regulator-blacklists-homeopathy-in-animals.aspx

The other thing is when you say: "OK, there are no trials, but we can assess response ourselves."

I'm NOT having a dig at you - really I'm not! But have you seen this study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23113523

It shows how bad owners AND VETERINARY SURGEONS are at assessing response to a treatment for OA.

(I wrote an article about the errors in human thinking which can lead people to think a medication is working, when it isn't, here:

https://www.vetsurgeon.org/microsites/private/rational-medicine/p/homeopathy-works.aspx

... although it is talking about homeopathy, the principles apply to all medicines, both alternative and conventional)

My point is that personal observation, even by a professional, is a really flawed way of measuring response when one is talking about subjective symptoms.

I'm on a mission to try and persuade as many people as possible to be champions of science ;)

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 09:11:06 GMT

[quote user="apache"]Come up with an additional skill or service we can offer as a practice and make some money (or differentiate ourselves from the competition) and I'm all ears.[/quote]

And that is the foundation stone of the matter...

So:

1st find out what your practice needs / will generate income

2nd find out if an RVN can do it legally

3rd find out if you'll need any VS support (e.g. as per the acupuncture example)

4th prepare a plan and present it to your practice; and, if it is accepted,

5th go for it*

*I did this with the set up of my 'Fit4Life' senior clinics. Success. And I am proud of it!

Ali h

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

steph fursland — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 06:40:15 GMT

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

apache — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 01:44:05 GMT

[quote user="Frances Bell"]I would love to see vet nurses being allowed to train in areas like acupuncture.... why is it that only vets get to do this when in the human field, you don't have to be trained as a doctor to become an acupuncturist?[/quote]

They can. One of the bigger providers of acupuncture training to the vet profession accepts both vets and VNs:

Qualified VNs can perform acupuncture as a Schedule 3 procedure and therefore the course is open to VNs. However, VNs should be aware that, given the nature and practise of acupuncture, they will be restricted by the limitations of Schedule 3. Current RCVS guidelines state that the VN must be directed by a veterinary surgeon qualified in acupuncture and that depth and position of needling should be part of that direction. They advise that the directing veterinary surgeon should be on the premises when the VN carries out the acupuncture. http://www.wvag.co.uk/foundation-course.html

I think the biggest problem is (certainly in human medicine) the evidence base for acupuncture is weakening and it's looking no better than placebo for many conditions! https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/

[quote user="Nikki Armstrong"] I wanted to do a wildlife nursing course, but would have had to pay for it myself in private practice .. hmm .. not really many incentives as you say.. such a shame as it puts people off pursuing a vocation that is meant for them. [/quote]

As a practice owner this is about the only thing I wouldn't consider paying for. Sadly wildlife treatment is a financial burden on the practice, whilst I'll go along with the RSPCA MOU and treat FOC if brought in when open most are PTS. The last thing I want is MORE wildlife because we get a name for it. Come up with an additional skill or service we can offer as a practice and make some money (or differentiate ourselves from the competition) and I'm all ears. We're a mixed practice and I put our SVN on a cow AI course today.

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Wendy Sneddon — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 23:22:29 GMT

I agree completely! As nurses we should be doing anything that doesn't need to be done by a Vet! We should have further training courses and be signed off as competent in each of those areas - such as dental scale and polish, lump removals, stitch ups, etc. A vet would see the pet, recommen the procedure and then delegate this to a competent nurse. This releases the vet to more work. It is a much more efficient use of nurses. The NHS model where nurses can prescribe again with training this should be possible for RVNs. I am in management now and working with a very progressive practice who are developing such training With a view to creating a more diverse career path for nurses.

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Nikki Armstrong — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:03:18 GMT

Hi Kirsty - just read the bit at the end that said ' the head nurse was unqualified" ! That is EXACTLY what was happening in the first practice I got a job at once qualified..and it was made quite clear to me that it was because she had grown up in a farming family and as a ' city girl' no matter who had the qualification, she was right for the head nurse.. it was this, among other things like lack of progression avenues and low pay, that eventually led to me leaving full time practice, joining locum agencies, and going back to art college to follow a creative career.. my only other skillset.. On the other hand I had some great experience as a locum working at the RSPCA, they do use their nurses skills and have good employment infrastructure it seems .. courses to go on, paid training, fair working hours and rotas, no nights, jobs boards for transfers etc.. I wish I had stayed there and taken up permanent job opportunities really, but I had to follow the creative path I was on.. If i went back to vet nursing now, I would prefer to work in the RSPCA or PDSA than in private practice .. The pay was always an issue tbh though, and I did think the only progression for me would have been to look into RSPCA inspector training or something.. at least better paid, but that had areas of the job role I didnt think I'd be suited for.. I would have loved to work at the AQS at Heathrow too.. lots of options, but practice nursing did seem a lot of the time in most places to be as Chris says.. glorified cleaner.. which is ridiculous. I was hoping that the profile of vet nursing would rise after all the TV vet hospital programmes in recent years, but it seems its just the same as ever - its ridiculous the difference in pay and opportunities between human and animal nursing.. the should be MORE opportunities as we have to know about MORE species!! I wanted to do a wildlife nursing course, but would have had to pay for it myself in private practice .. hmm .. not really many incentives as you say.. such a shame as it puts people off pursuing a vocation that is meant for them. 'Dissillusioned' from Bolton!

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Tania Ford — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 15:51:43 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]Remember the discussion on here earlier in the year about nurses not being able to empty anal glands. There were quite a few who thought it was just something else we were being told we couldn't do - my take on it? I'm sure as hell not going to fight for the privilege of squeezing a dog's bum - to me it was a positive not having to do them[/quote]

I had to ring the RCVS about this one relatively recently and I was informed that it was no longer legal for an unqualified person - ie dog groomer to internally empty anal glands. It is however within the RVN remit of schedule 3 procedures, so long as a VS had delegated the job to you - much like 2nd vaccinations.

Maybe im an 'odd' RVN, but i do like a nice juicy anal gland to squeeze every now and again! lol

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

Gizmo — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 15:28:03 GMT

I would love to see vet nurses being allowed to train in areas like acupuncture.... why is it that only vets get to do this when in the human field, you don't have to be trained as a doctor to become an acupuncturist? I don't expect to make diagnoses but with the right training I could sure as hell place an acupuncture needle in the right area after diagnosis and referral from a vet. Being allowed to do all these things in the workplace frees up the vet's time and allows them to make more money for the practice.... how many vets could better use their time seeing more patients than doing a routine scale and polish? I'd also love to gain certification as a specialist anaesthetist. And I have a wealth of experience in triaging and applying first aid and care plans (including medication and nutrition) for wildlife species, including assessing whether an individual is viable for release and having to make a call on euthanasia - why is there STILL no recognition that our wildlife needs our help and that there are specific skills needed for this since the anatomy is, in some cases, vastly different and drug tolerances are also different? I believe in training that's as comprehensive as possible and think the problem is not that we are too highly trained - we are definitely under-utilised. The RCVS and vets in general need to be better educated about what vet nurses are capable of, and to be dragged kicking and screaming if necessary into the 21st century.

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

ChrisRossiter — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:04:27 GMT

Some other pointers from reading through (can't be bothered with quotes as I'm on my phone).

- Wanting to specialise etc. Go find a practice that allows these things. I worked in a great hospital at end of last year where they had a diabetic nurse. Did diabetes clinics where animals were referred from the Vets and cases discussed between vets and the diabetic nurse. (Just one example)

Or go into referral if being a specialist nurse is so important. You can do certs in a lot and there are (albeit not enough) jobs where you can be utilised. I wouldn't expect to be allowed in first opinion practices or branch sized practices mainly due to being able to accommodate.

- Being recognised for your certs/achievments. This can be changed by a staff board in reception that is done well in a way that it's clear to the untrained eye. Having post nominal isnt enough, I have to research some myself!!!! Even go as far as having "Nutrition nurse" "Diabetic clinic nurse" etc etc in big letters just under your name. Bullet points with experience/certs/interests.

Also doing this on a website. Too many practices dont even acknowledge their nurse team on their websites. I wouldn't work there.......

Have practice open days where clients can meet staff and talk about what you do! Clients aren't aware because we don't tell them the majority of the time!

Again this needs vets on side and believing in their nurses and their skills. AGAIN. If you don't have that, leave!

As for working somewhere the Vets dont allow nurses to place catheters....... leave. I wouldn't hang around. That is allowing yourself to be belittled to a glorified cleaner! Especially as a locum? Hell no. I wouldn't even entertain a casual phone chat with a practice that doesn't allow nurses to be nurses. How anyone allows theirselves to work for a practice that belittles them that low by not being able to do anything clinical I dont know.

Those practices that dont acknowledge, utilise and promote their brilliant nurses will end up with no nurses. There aren't enough of us around. Simple as that. This is of course if people do something about being unhappy and not scared of leaving somewhere that makes them unhappy.........

Other than this, we do need legislation changes etc. We do need more. It's hard comparing to human nursing because that's a public service, funded by government, free in the most part to people.

We are a private service that costs. The nature of our work, the cost of medical supplies and medicine and the name of our roles is where the similarities end.

I dream of an animal nhs..........

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

ChrisRossiter — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:39:49 GMT

I am at work so haven't had time to read all of this but will later.

The problem lies in the Vet Surgeons act. It's ancient. Before nurses existed. The schedule 3 is like patching up a ruptured spleen with a primapore.

Until this is rewritten/changed to ensure RVNs are utilised, we will never be as valued as our knowledge and training makes us.

I know they are looking at it all. If there isn't improvement when it happens to a satisfactory level, ill probably give up clinical nursing too.

RE: How do you feel about progression as a nurse?

VetNurse Anon a/c — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 05:58:46 GMT

Yeah I agree with a lot of the comments on here and wrote the thinking of leaving the profession with this being one of the reasons.

lets just hope something positive comes back from the Schedule three consultation but than again just by bolstering our role does not necessarily mean the practice will put us to good use as most of the time we are underused within our current remit but who knows only time will tell.