Advice needed

RE: Advice needed

Rachael_24 — Sat, 23 Sep 2017 15:05:48 GMT

I'm sorry to hear about your situation Anon.

I was in a very similar position a few years ago. There was no head nurse in the practice and only 2 qualified and several unqualified nurses. The other RVN seemed to think that she was in charge and was unfortunately responsible for a lot of work place bullying. I do not use that term lightly but when someone makes an effort to belittle others constantly then that is bullying in my book. She was always very careful not to do anything when the practice owners were in the vicinity so clearly knew that she was wrong to act the way she did.

I raised the issues on several occassions with management and it did finally progress to us having a meeting with myself, the other RVN and one of the practice owners. We each talked about how we felt and I felt hopeful the situation would improve after this. I'm sorry to say that after just a few days it was back as bad as ever.

I am no longer working at this practice (I did not leave because of this person) but know from old colleagues that things have not changed in the slightest.

I think in some of these cases Management is to blame for not taking a more assertive role in resolving the issues. In my situation, I felt let down by my bosses and it got to the point where I just didn't bother telling them what was going on becuase it was very clear that they were happy to ignore it.

I really hope that you have a happier ending! Don't give up!

RE: Advice needed

Alison Clare Hickman — Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:23:27 GMT

Managing a team: Required skills...

Marshalling

Corralling

Shepherding

Communicating

Works for all ranks. The trick is to deploy the right element at the required time and for the correct period and to the relevant person or people. It requires planning and fortitude, particularly so for a dysfunctional team or in a toxic environment. Get it right *and Catriona is doing just that!* and it should get easier to manage/maintain. Happy team, happy you.

Xxx

RE: Advice needed

Alison Clare Hickman — Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:06:33 GMT

!!! Marvellous advice and tips there Catriona88

If Anon can work something like this with the support of her management team, fan-dabby-dosie! Hard work, endurance, persistence and consistency. Phew. Anon, you up for the challenge?! What do you think?

What's happening in your world and your thoughts now Anon?

Ali h

RE: Advice needed

Catriona88 — Fri, 22 Sep 2017 23:46:10 GMT

Sorry to hear you're having a difficult time, it all sounds way too familiar to me!

I work in a small animal practice with a fun, close knit team. However, there is one member who has been rocking the boat for some time now and causing friction and negativity within the team. This person is a very senior member of staff who is incredibly lazy and picks and chooses what she does. She would never admit any wrong doing and loves seeing other team members struggle. She offers no guidance to younger members of staff but loves to point out if they have made a mistake. Her standards of care are terrible and her lack of knowledge in some areas is of concern. It's so frustrating to see younger members of staff who are newly qualified and have that unmistakable passion for the industry become frustrated and lose motivation.

Management are all too aware of the problems and have tried different ways to approach the issues. This team member is highly sensitive and emotional and will take offence to any suggestion of doing something differently. So she makes for a very difficult team member to approach!

One thing management have introduced are new nurse roles and the tasks they responsible for on a daily basis. There are checklists with tasks needing to be completed and they must be signed off at the end of each day. This has worked well, as all nurses are equally doing the cleaning as well as surgeries and hospital duties. I also enjoy knowing what tasks I need to focus on each day and don't end up running around like a headless chook trying to get everything done. If tasks haven't been completed at the end of the day, management speak to those who were responsible and ask why they weren't completed. It may seem like an army approach and it's like we had to go right back to primary school to get nurses to do their equal share of cleaning, but it is now the norm and no one thinks twice about having to mop the floors on their day.

I had voiced concerns about the lack of anaesthesia knowledge this nurse had and her slack attitude towards isoflurane (leaving iso on after surgeries, not flushing sytsem etc!). Management organised a group anaesthesia CPD and outlined our standards. If people were not working at these standards they aren't to carry out anaesthesia. This worked well as it wasn't pointing the finger directly at one person, and created a good team response as if someone saw another nurse flushing out the system after a surgery it was like 'Good work Emma!' etc This also made the problem nurse feel more involved in the team and her attitude has changed ever so slightly.

Another area of issue was this nurse was not using a GA monitoring form and wasn't checking recovering patients. I notified a senior vet on one occasion when a recovering bitch spay was still very flat 4 hours post surgery yet not once was the dog checked by the nurse. He spoke to her about it and I think she realised this could have had a horrible outcome so I think it was a bit of a wake up call.

So, I guess you could say I'm a bit of a nark and maybe I should have talked directly to the nurse about my concerns! I don't want to ruin the relationship we have, although not great but not too bad either. Yes, you could argue that management could have dealt with her directly about the anaesthesia safety concerns but I feel this would have pushed her further out of the team and she would have been even worse to deal with.

I have a great relationship with management as well as the junior nurses. They feel they can come to me with their concerns and I feel comfortable talking to management and coming up with a plan. I feel sometimes management don't want to know about issues as they don't actually know how to deal with them.

I hope this helps you to maybe see that many different approaches can be used, and some can work well in some clinics and some can come down like a lead balloon! I do feel for you, as I was close to leaving my position as I felt things were never going to change. I can't say things are perfect but the junior nurses are enjoying their profession and are highly motivated to learn and improve, and for me this is the best outcome :)

Good luck to you, I hope this helps in some way

RE: Advice needed

Sal the 1st — Fri, 22 Sep 2017 13:42:46 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

Incidentally, I would ask only one boss to attend, you don't want a full jury there!

[/quote]

agreed hence the brackets for the plural - just from my experience tho once you get management involved in any situation in any job it is the management that operate on a 'safety in numbers' principle - rarely will they attend in singles (unless there is only one manager). There should however be one absolute rule that applies to everybody who takes part and that is whatever is discussed in that room stays in that room. To continue the discussion outside the room and involve others that weren't present may cause further trust issues between parties and totally derail the whole process.

My experience has also been that if somebody has a problem for whatever reason (and this applies to any aspect of life not just work) that they have spent a great deal of time thinking about that problem and allowed it to grow. If they invested the same amount of time coming up with possible solutions the problem diminishes in size. Perhaps if everybody in the meeting presented their problems with at least one possible solution it could form the basis of a negotiation and a workable resolution for everybody?

RE: Advice needed

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 16:26:22 GMT

Awful for you anon.

Really, this strikes me as a failure of management / leadership.

I mean, it's difficult to know from your posts what the underlying problem is. Is it a power struggle as you suggest? Is it that she just doesn't like you? Have you given her reason not to like you? (I'm not trying to suggest you have, just that there are invariably two sides, and obviously this is just yours).

But that's slightly besides the point. The point is that whatever the cause, surely management should have a process in place, even if it is pretty informal, for resolving conflict within the team.

I don't know if anything more has happened since you first posted, but if it were me, a) I would tend to agree with jojofruits - don't tell them you're going to look for another job. First, why should you? Second, they might just say: "OK then".

I think if it were me, I'd follow Sal's approach:

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]how about a sit down meeting with the boss(es) and your problem nurse - all together. apologies if you have already tried this[/quote]

But actually, I'd go further than that. I'd try and make sure the meeting was more structured than just 'a sit down'. In other words, that the person holding the meeting set the agenda (to resolve differences), and asked both sides to jot down any issues that they have working with the other in advance.

Incidentally, I would ask only one boss to attend, you don't want a full jury there!

I would ask that the meeting is held at short notice (you don't want this rumbling in the background for any length of time. I'd suggest it is announced to the other nurse in the morning and held later that day).

Then you sit down and work through the problems, importantly thinking how each one could be solved. The whole meeting should be about solutions, not blame or recrimination.

Hopefully you both walk away with a better understanding of each other, perhaps even become friends. Maybe that's optimistic, but stranger things have happened.

RE: Advice needed

Sal the 1st — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 17:04:30 GMT

how about a sit down meeting with the boss(es) and your problem nurse - all together. apologies if you have already tried this

RE: Advice needed

jojofruits — Sat, 16 Sep 2017 11:09:48 GMT

Just to note.. maybe don't tell them you are looking for another job?

That's none of their business! and may put you on the back foot.

They should take you seriously without having to mention that

RE: Advice needed

Alison Clare Hickman — Thu, 14 Sep 2017 11:04:22 GMT

Oh my dear, I really feel for you. Yes, your health (and happiness!) are the most important things here (and patient welfare of course, goes without saying really as that's what we should do as professional RVN's).

It does sound like the person is frustrated, resentful and unhappy and taking it out on everyone, you most of all. Unhappiness manifests itself in many ways and in her case by being disruptive, disrespectful and disorderly. Perhaps as things have gone on so long she feels her own cries for help/recognition have been ignored so she is literally stamping her feet in tantrum. However, that doesn't excuse poor nursing standards or making your life a misery.

Yes, a meeting is a great idea. Yes going down the GP route is also a good idea if you cannot resolve matters satisfactorily.

Let us know how you get on - you're NOT ALONE in this; we've got your back.

Finally - a little humour for you - (it certainly helped me (and another nurse) to get through some really cr@ppy days, so see if it can give you some buoyancy too!)

RE: Advice needed

VetNurse Anon a/c — Thu, 14 Sep 2017 10:34:03 GMT

Hi. I'm ok just trying to organise my brain as to whats best to do. I know I need to get something sorted as its causing me sleepless nights and the feeling of dread before going to work which really isn't healthy.In one way I want to just hand in my notice and go because that's the easiest thing to do but then why should I when its a job I otherwise love. Getting other team members to buddy up would not be an option as the whole team are fed up due to the erratic outbursts (we have slammed doors, huffing and silent treatment regularly too), unfortunately it seems management are the only ones who cant see whats going on or choose to not see because that's the easiest option.

You ask about historic issues - yes this has been going on for years though is getting worse and over the years has consisted of trying to turn other staff members against me. I feel part of the issue may be resentment as they have been qualified longer than me and therefore feel they should have my job, but then in another breath some of the comments made seem to point to them not even wanting to be an rvn. I just struggle understand why you would want to work somewhere, and in a profession that you obviously don't want to give your all to and instead just seemingly devote your time causing trouble and causing hostility.

I am thinking that maybe I have a sit down meeting outlining that I am on the point of looking for another job and laying down strongly the reasons why, and pointing out that it is causing me stress and anxiety - which I have highlighted in the past which they haven't acted on, and that it therefore is impacting on my health. If they then choose not to act in my opinion they have made their choice but I will still go down the written complaint procedure as don't want to just go without making my point. Everything I do is for my patients and the practice and I cant work somewhere where patients welfare seemingly isn't paramount.

This is a horrid situation to be in but I just know for my own health this cant carry on. I have full family support whatever I decide and if I need to pay extra money for sitters etc then so be it, so at least I am getting support from this end. Thank you for your reply :)

RE: Advice needed

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:07:28 GMT

hey there Anon, how is it going? Are you okay? Hugs. X

RE: Advice needed

Alison Clare Hickman — Tue, 12 Sep 2017 20:31:46 GMT

hi, my sympathy with your circumstances... horrid.

The *simple* answer is to invoke your company Grievance Procedure. You should have one, either as part of an employee handbook or contained in your contract. Guidance can be found on the ACAS website

http://m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1670

I am advocating this step as you say you have tried everything else and a formal letter, you feel, is the next step. I agree and the GP has to be observed by management so it is the quickest way to get them to react, ime. Not an easy choice as it can get messy but if the desired objective is (immediately and importantly) prevent potential harm to a patient and (ultimately, one would hope) act as a catalyst to educate rather than incriminate, then it is a sensible option. As stated, especially if your cries/whistle blowing have previously fallen on fallow soil...

I would recommend you keep a diary of all events you observe that concern you; time, date, description. If you haven't already done so. Evidence is important to establish cause for complaint; though a personality clash has no 'hard evidence' but can still be grounds for raising a Grievance (not saying this what you report).

Ultimately I hope that by raising the matter formally you can improve your working environment; for patients, for your team, for you and, yes, for the individual you identify as currently insufficient.

I think you'll experience a bit of a rocky road continuing to work with patience and tolerance of this person, (certainly sounds like that ship has sailed a while ago); however, you do need to back off and try, without compromising patient safety of course. Can you task a reliable team member to buddy up with them and relieve you of the daily monitoring? i say this as you don't need the hassle of being accused of picking/harrassing this person. Maybe there's an element of miscommunication/personality clash between you (an historical one that has grown horns over the past months/years?). Just mentioning, not saying is the case...

PM me if you need to off load any time or if you think I can help in any way.

Good luck.

RE: Advice needed

Nicola Smith — Tue, 12 Sep 2017 16:50:19 GMT

No advice as I'm not sure what to say but I'm really saddened to keep reading but also hearing first hand about how so often it seems those who work hard and try to maintain standards are victimised. I do believe many vets aren't cut out for hr and management so would rather just bury their head in the sand than address issues. This sadly leaves some dedicated nurses in a very dark place with no option other than to leave the profession that so badly needs people like them.

Hope you get sorted.