Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

ChrisRossiter — Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:47:11 GMT

I qualified this year. Am locuming at the moment.

My problem with wages is the "newly qualified RVN" salaries being offered are below par in my opinion and some practices don't read between the lines when faced with a CV.

I qualified this year, yes. However I have been nursing 5 1/2 years. I also worked in the industry for a further 2 years prior, both volunteering at a national charity, and then as a veterinary receptionist.

My work experience also includes 2 years working in very busy first opinion hospitals, including lots of OOH, sole charge nurse night shifts (vet on call), lots of crazy procedures etc.

So when you put me next to some other newly qualified RVN's, who have done a 2 year course and always worked in a small branch with mainly routines (i've also worked in these places), offering me a flat rate "freshly graduated RVN package" is insulting.

I'm also sure there are nurses who have just qualified who are far more experienced and skilled than myself too!

If you worked as anything for 5 1/2 years, plus another 2 years in a similar role, and then you were offered £17/18/19k when you live in London, i'm sorry, but you'd get up and leave.

It really just isn't good enough and although I love my career path and would like to take a perm job to grow in a role, it's really hard to move away from locuming or towards being a drug rep etc.

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Sal the 1st — Wed, 18 Oct 2017 19:55:41 GMT

[quote user="Paris M"]

I think the deficit in RVNs is actually a force for good

[/quote]

I think what we are going to end up with is the NHS scenario. Its already happening now - lots of bank nurses and lots of unqualified nursing staff but generally nobody actually caring too much as long as they get what they want - sad but inevitable with the route this profession has chosen to take. Maybe I'm old fashioned but the job is turning into something I really don't like too much.

13yrs and counting before I can pack it all in - unless I get myself hitched to somebody with a limitless bank account and a limited lifespan or come up big on the lottery

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Tania Ford — Wed, 18 Oct 2017 18:40:45 GMT

Vets4pets practices are popping up on every street corner, and i think the general lack of nurses at present has made them re think salaries. In my opinion, you seem to be able to set your own price and they are so desperate to staff the practices that they will pretty much pay what you have asked for. Worked in my case anyway lol.

All i can say is dont under value yourselves, as we seem to be a dying breed at present. Good practices need good nurses and they will only get that these days by paying more than they used to.

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Paris M — Wed, 18 Oct 2017 17:52:12 GMT

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that RVNs now are much more aware of how their professional skills are in high demand and therefore are voting with their feet by not accepting low wages. I think this is very much a positive move for the profession as I hope that it causes salaries across the board to rise.

Newly qualified RVN are more aware that by locuming or heading into a referral practice is much more likely to achieve appropriate salary. I think the deficit in RVNs is actually a force for good for the industry as it is unlikely that salaries will rise if the practice managers were left to their own devices. If practices would like to hire qualified nurses to staff their practices I think they are realising that pay in the permanent sector is a major issue. I hope it gets more towards national average in the future.

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Sal the 1st — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 21:32:52 GMT

[quote user="kerryfeehan"]

I think a lot more nurses are perhaps expecting higher pay due to places like v4p who pay about 21k?!

[/quote]

must have changed a lot then since I worked for them - certainly wasn't my experience of this group. I think a lot depends on where you are in the country too. My area (Lincolnshire) I doubt would get anywhere near that

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

kerryfeehan — Tue, 17 Oct 2017 20:57:40 GMT

[quote user="Selena "]

Gloucestershire, our pay isn't great but we are a small practice. our RVNs are on between 9.00 and 10.50 p/h. 28 days holiday, CPD allowance of 350. no OOH, only saturdays working so far (our boss would like to open on a sunday)

[/quote]

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me! Similar to my current situation! I think a lot more nurses are perhaps expecting higher pay due to places like v4p who pay about 21k?!

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Paris M — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 13:28:25 GMT

Don't forget that there is a gathering movement among us millennials to be childfree (myself included). I agree with the afore mentioned point that family commitments can make an employee less flexible and believe that being without dependants can aid in the provision of labour in a manner more suited to a business. The virtues of being childfree mean you may be willing to provide labour when others cannot, which is certainly advantageous especially as a locum.

with regards to agencies, there is also a gathering movement of locums becoming agency free. I frequently encounter practices that are very unhappy with the fees and practices of recruitment firms, so I have embraced social media and direct contact with practices in order to facilitate a better standard of locum service to my clients. Its my aspiration to make locum nursing care more affordable and appealing to smaller practices (we've all been that permanent nurse that's overworked, its no fun :( )

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Selena Carnell — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:06:40 GMT

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

kerryfeehan — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:55:46 GMT

Personally I work full time and always have and have also experienced some part time staff dictating hours they can and can't work which is very frustrating! I do how ever think there should be a place for FLEXIBLE part time workers. Just wish I could afford to only work part time! It is frustrating when you already work full time and then HAVE to stay late because of the industry we are in. Even more frustrating when we don't get paid for that extra time or get given the time back purely because it is expected of us?!

Those hours sound good to me Selena! Could it be something else putting people off? Where abouts are you?

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

ChrisRossiter — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:37:13 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

sorry wasn't getting at you just sick to death of being treated like something they have stepped in by people who work a lot less hours than I do and who somehow feel an entitlement to better conditions than everybody else

[/quote]

Oh no Sal. I wasn't feeling like that. :) I am on your side. It's totally unfair and needs to be looked at.

Family commitments really do disrupt (rightly so) the industry. Why I'm such hot property ;) Male, no kids (yet), no maternity leave, no pregnancy. Employ me and you don't need to worry about covering me in a year or two for maternity, or wrapping me in cotton wool when i'm preggers.

Even when I'm not flexible for whatever reasons, I still try to be. At the end of the day, your part of a team who you spend more time with than you do you're family and friends. You have to treat them and help them like you would hope for in return.

I just believe the way forward is better work/life balance, especially in smallish first opinion practices. If you go into referral centres/specialist fields, then it's kind of in the contract that you will have a poor work/life balance. Saying that, I know of referral centres that treat their staff far better than I have been subjected to in the past!

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Sal the 1st — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 19:01:45 GMT

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

ChrisRossiter — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:36:07 GMT

It shouldn't be your problem at all. That's a problem in itself.

I agree those who need job flexibility generally have less desire to be flexible for the job. I however would have no problem staying 4 hours late into the early hours, whilst others go home to look after their kids/walk their dog etc. As long as I can then come in 4 hours late the next day or something similar.

I'm done with the days of being flexible for a job, only to have none given back "because that's the business/ these are the set shifts". I've worked my body into the ground for a job before and now I need to look after myself a bit more.

I wasn't really stating that others should have flexible hours and others not. I meant more as a practice. There is little to no harm to business by allowing your staff to have a better work/life balance. In fact it will only aid the staff and your business more.

The hardest thing is (in most jobs in this industry) finding time to go to the dentist/doctors/opticians/bank/etc. A more flexible work week, such as 2 longer days and 3 shorter days, is highly appealing to me. It allows me to get things done. Working 9-6 every weekday means I have to take a day off or make up time, or take unpaid hours, just go get to the dentist/docs/bank/opticians.

It's ridiculous that we all put our lives on hold for our jobs.

Saying that, in the most cases, employers are understandable and realistic. However I still see too many that aren't.

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Sal the 1st — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:22:13 GMT

it has always been my experience 30yrs + that those wanting flexibility are generally those less available to offer flexibility themselves when asked. At the end of the day veterinary practice is a business and it shouldn't have to revolve around somebody wanting, for whatever reason, to work fewer hours than everybody else. Instead of concentrating on accommodating part time staff all the time how about sparing some consideration for those doing the bulk of the work now and again.

Sorry if people don't like that but I have had decades of this and I am done with letting other people's children, partners, etc etc (fill in any blank you could care to mention) being my problem.

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

ChrisRossiter — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 08:32:31 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

I don't expect 9-5 either - which is a bloody good job seeing as I can't even remember the last time that happened. I have been stuck with the late shift for the last 7 yrs and that 6.30 finish night after night is really starting to pee me off while both of our part timers happily hog the 8.30 to 2pm slot and waltz out leaving the cleaning behind them. Being flexible for some shouldn't mean making it miserable for others

[/quote]

Wow I feel your pain! I'm currently working every Thursday and Friday late shift (I'm locuming but haven't kicked up a fuss about it yet). Though 90% of the time being on a late means you're cleaning mid day and end of day. Mid day one because other nurses are in surgery.

Part time is hard to cope with for full time staff. I worked with a nurse who was part time 8:30-1:30 during week, but then did all the extra shifts such as night shifts for loads of money. That's unfair. You're part time because you have a young family or other reasons, so if you can suddenly work lots of extra shifts, then you can be full time!

I would have loved to have the energy to cover extra shifts but after my full time working week, it was difficult to give up the little personal time I had.

I don't have all the answers. It's a very very difficult conundrum.

Where's your practice Selena???

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Sal the 1st — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 08:11:08 GMT

[quote user="Selena "]

Part time cover actually makes sorting shifts a nightmare as the part time girls not always flexible or available for what we would like.

[/quote]

Definitely agree with this.

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Selena Carnell — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 07:27:38 GMT

We actually work a rolling road of 8-1 and 10=7 every other day, with a 1-4 weekend and no out of hours. works out about 32 hrs one week and 37 the next which i think is pretty decent rota for the full time girls.. but still had zero interest. We HAVE asked for part time or full time still zero interest. potentially our weekend rota will have to a reduce to a 1-2 because two of the nurses are really kicking off about having to be on the weekend road when 'we never had to before'. believe me we are trying all avenues. Part time cover actually makes sorting shifts a nightmare as the part time girls not always flexible or available for what we would like.

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Sal the 1st — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 22:25:17 GMT

[quote user="ChrisRossiter"]

I even had a job offer me the salary i wanted MINUS the agent fees for the first year. As though it's my fault that they're paying a finders fee? Ridiculous way of thinking.

[/quote]

you are lucky it was only for the first year - this happened to me and in the second year they conveniently forgot what the job had been advertised at

[quote user="ChrisRossiter"]

I don't expect 9-5 Mon - Fri. However I do expect a better deal than some I've seen. I'd rather flexibility in a role than a strict 9-5.

I feel the more attractive roles are the ones that allow flexibility and allow a range of hours between staff. Not all staff can or are willing to work full 40hours mon-fri + 1 in 3 weekends with TIOL.

[/quote]

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

kerryfeehan — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 21:39:44 GMT

It has been highlighted before that our industry is poor in being flexible regarding part time working. Have you considered trying to recruit 2 part time nurses? That way there is more flexibility in terms of shifts and holiday/sick cover? The industry needs to improve in this area as not everyone wants or needs to work a 40 hour week? Whats wrong with a 30 or 35 hour week?

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Selena Carnell — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 16:03:42 GMT

we've advertised on indeed website, on our own Facebook page and website,and recently just paid for a month advert in a magazine which has cost us £400 for just a month. There generally is no charge for agencies to advertise your vacancy, if we had advertised every month for 6 months... it adds up. 40 hours is a standard full time job! 1-3 weekends is fairly average, (must admit i have never seen a 9-5 advertised in veterinary work). It does seem that people have unrealistic expectations of the job, even vets are unwilling to work weekend and shifts. we are lucky that we only work saturdays, other practices are sat and sun, plus bank holidays. even speaking to an agency today they said they have NO vets or nurses on their books looking for permanent work they all want locum work only.

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

ChrisRossiter — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:40:52 GMT

I completely agree. However. I have recently been shown two jobs local to my home residence which are both through an agency and pretty appealing.

I have since searched for both roles (now knowing the names of the practices) and not found one splurt of evidence of them advertising the jobs by themselves.

So how are job hunters meant to cut out the agencies, when the jobs aren't advertised other than through agencies? I'd rather apply direct in all honesty. Just to get a better deal for both parties if anything. I even had a job offer me the salary i wanted MINUS the agent fees for the first year. As though it's my fault that they're paying a finders fee? Ridiculous way of thinking.

However after looking on various job sites, especially the specific ones, you cannot see the jobs that are out there. How are you meant to not go the route of agencies?

Agencies are great, don't get me wrong. However the smaller practices shouldn't be even considering using them and more think about how they can make the job more appealing than others.

I don't have unrealistic expectations when going into a job or interview. I don't expect 9-5 Mon - Fri. However I do expect a better deal than some I've seen. I'd rather flexibility in a role than a strict 9-5.

It's difficult, but it will attract more potential staff in my opinion.

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Sal the 1st — Mon, 09 Oct 2017 19:49:46 GMT

I went to work in one practice where the agency charged a finders fee - less than a month later the same agency was contacting me to see if I was happy where I was or if I fancied a change to another practice -another permanent role and presumably another finders fee for them. There are some really lousy agencies out there along with the good ones - I would like to see them all regulated

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Selena Carnell — Mon, 09 Oct 2017 19:29:22 GMT

Theres no guarantee that then person you recruit from the agency won't leave after 6 months then you have paid out nearly £2000 for a nurse and potentially 4k plus for a surgeon (depends greatly on their wage package) it is crippling for a small 2 vet practice. One of our vets is 62 next year and he wants to cut down the hours... but theres no one. we've only had foreign applicants which is fine... Our vet pointed out its very rare that we get a letter sent on 'spec' for a job.. its all the agencies doing the chasing work for them.

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Sal the 1st — Sat, 07 Oct 2017 11:03:08 GMT

[quote user="Selena "]

seriously though what do we do where there are no applicants for a position? we are having to seriously consider looking at using VCA / animal nursing assistants to fill the vacancy. We don't even have the resources to train a nurse, when we are so short staffed. Also we are having issues recruiting a vet surgeon... we've had NO applicants and been looking for over 6 months.. the candidates the agencies send are miles away and not wanting to relocate, also the agencies are bumping up their fees aw well as the locums.

[/quote]

Same with us - and I do think the ones that have been interviewed and have then turned us down there has been a real problem with their expectations of what the job will be.

It seems to be that once they have graduated they want the moon on stick - but sorry guys what you want and what is on offer are very often two different things. Sure I would love a job that is 9-5 with no weekends and no on call but after over 30 years I still don't have any of that.I guess that is why so many of the new grads go straight into teaching the next generation what they should or shouldn't be expecting from the job they are training for. The job prospects and conditions being portrayed are totally skewed to my mind, its like somebody has taken the job description and sprinkled it with fairy dust.

Agencies - don't get me started. The finders fees are crippling and then you end up with somebody who wants you to work around their wants rather than what the practice needs.

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

Selena Carnell — Sat, 07 Oct 2017 09:49:12 GMT

RE: Where are all the recently graduated RVNS?????

zyface — Wed, 06 Sep 2017 14:41:03 GMT

Almost 32 years!! Not a day goes by that I think 'I don't want to go today'. I love my job. I chose it and it is a privilege to be able to do what we do. It is not always easy, in fact sometimes its worse than awful. I have had soaring highs and crushing lows but my work has been my saviour on many occasions. I have seen the 'James Herriot' of mixed practice, seen extraordinary recoveries from devastating injuries, seen families through joy and anguish, seen many students, both vets and nurses study and grow into wonderful professional colleagues and go on to do amazing things, all with the same deep rooted passion that we all have for this rather incredible job. Our patients are remarkable, our job is like nothing else you will ever do so let's remember our position of privilege, enjoy it and look after each other.