Employer Code of Practice

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 09:01:10 GMT

[quote user="Ben Ogden"]Lets have that Survey![/quote]

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]nope 50+ been doing this job since 1984, been a successful HN a number of times, currently being treated like dirt by at least one part time VCA. [/quote]

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]I really don't understand how people think it's ok to treat work colleagues in this manner.[/quote]

Hmm - all this leads me think a survey would be really valuable, because it would get people talking about the issue, send the message that it's not OK, and potentially get people to change their behaviour. I think MORE effectively than a Code of Practice.

Deserves a thread of its own - so I'm now going to 'tangent' this.

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Nick Shackleton — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 08:51:03 GMT

I really don't understand how people think it's ok to treat work colleagues in this manner.

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Sal the 1st — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 08:44:48 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

Im now of an age where I tend to fight my corner. As well as others. It's the younger, newly qualified and support staff that seem to get picked on.

[/quote]

nope 50+ been doing this job since 1984, been a successful HN a number of times, currently being treated like dirt by at least one part time VCA. Some days it just isn't worth it.

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Nick Shackleton — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 08:08:38 GMT

Ok I'm sorry I misread that. Some males, such as myself are short in stature too. Some female bosses can be just as bad. So maybe its a power thing rather than a male vs female scenario.

Im now of an age where I tend to fight my corner. As well as others. It's the younger, newly qualified and support staff that seem to get picked on.

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Sal the 1st — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 08:05:36 GMT

no - you have taken that the wrong way - that was in no way intended to be sexist. In stature males would win out over many of us (I am a short arsed female). Plus a female employee against a male boss? I agree it shouldn't happen but it does. I have been at the stage a few times where the resignation letter is already written and signed, in my handbag just needing dating and handing over - all ready for the next time somebody pops off at me. Yes there are times when it has been that bad. But I also have to say it isn't only vets that can make this job miserable for others - sometimes its nursing staff too and being told to stick up for yourself and fight your corner - well its really not helpful.

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Nick Shackleton — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 07:05:37 GMT

i have to say that's a bit sexist to say we can handle just cos we are males. I've been bullied, belittled and victimised in the past and that was by a female vet. In fact two vets in my career and picked on me and both were female. it just shouldn't happen no matter who you are.

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Sal the 1st — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 23:00:06 GMT

[quote user="Ben Ogden"]

I worked with a Vet that had an uncontrolled "tantrum" and directed at me. Fair to say they were pulled aside and told "I work with professionals, if you cant be professional, you can't work with me". It did concern me that although I am happy to take in hand a situation, there are so many that cannot.

Lets have that Survey!

[/quote]

yes but you have a very real advantage over many of us in that you are male. I can just about hold my own these days (some days at least) but in the past have been a lot less capable. Thinking back now to what I have experienced in the past I just wouldn't stand for some of the crap anymore- but in saying that even tho I may appear confident to some there are still people who think its their right to walk all over me and there are times when I just don't feel able to put up a good defence. I find it quite demoralising to go into work each day and have to fight my corner - the jobs hard enough without turning it into gladiatorial combat and survival of the fittest. I am really not as tough as some people seem to think

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Ben Ogden — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 21:54:11 GMT

Lets have that Survey!

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Alison Clare Hickman — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 12:22:45 GMT

NAB - an information provider.

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 11:14:50 GMT

[quote user="Alison Clare Hickman"]Cool. Are you asking the vets on vetsurgeon.org about their thoughts and ideas?[/quote]

Yup!

Something else that has happened is that I've been contacted by a VN with experience of being bullied in practice. That triggered an idea, which is to conduct a survey of the VN profession asking, quite simply, have you been bullied in your current job? (with a short definition of what we mean by the term 'bullying').

I think that would help give an idea of how common it is.

As to NAB, I suppose I wonder whether you see this as something that actually gets involved in disputes (I can see that being complex) or just an information provider.

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Alison Clare Hickman — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 19:07:08 GMT

just thinking...

What about looking at a different way of approaching this initiative...

I see from reading the distressed posts from nurses (must be vets and laystaff out there too suffering same), that the initial need is to ask for our opinion on whether their circumstances are fair; have they been treated fairly. Where can they find help or guidance. What resources are available. The various routes/choices they have to resolve matters.

This indicates that, to me, the initiative needs to provide a Citizens Advice style service for us to refer to. With directions where to find other professional supports such as VetLife or Legal services/CAB

A one-stop shop.

I would call it NAB (nurse advice bureau).

A practice could then display a NAB poster on their notice board showing their support of NAB. That is, their transparent commitment to fair treatment.

This idea is just a skeleton at the moment. The flesh and fine-detail need thinking about. What would work; what would not (and the solution to the problem).

I also think it is easier to get the word out there. I could get a poster from NAB, show it to my employer and ask if I can put it on our notice board -full disclosure what NAB does/supports, of course. I could report to NAB that my practice is participating in the scheme. Similarly, a practice can ask NAB for a poster...

What would/could NAB do with any failures? Am not sure yet how to fairly answer this - suggestions??!!

whaddya'all think?

Happy to be routinely bagged for my idea. It's just an idea!!

Peace to all.

Ali h

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Sal the 1st — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 22:30:59 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

perhaps it could be a VetNurse initiative.

[/quote]

to me that would be more than acceptable

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Mini — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 18:03:50 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]Had a tray of instruments thrown at me by somebody throwing a hissy fit.[/quote]

Pathetic behaviour from a 'professional' !

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Nick Shackleton — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 15:54:35 GMT

So I actually like the idea of a union. Having spent some time in human healthcare we have access to a variety of unions. We unison, which is a general union for all health professionals, am not sure if we as veterinary professions can access this or not. However, as I cureently work in radiography we are encouraged to become members of the society of radiographers, which I guess is the equivalent of the BVNA. They provide CPD, monthly magazine and a union. Each hospital assigns a union rep that staff members can access to assist them with work related issues. I feel with a union behind us as veterinary professions we have more rights to refuse meetings without the proper representation and support.

The practice I work for part time, soon to be full time. We have monthly nurses meetings and yearly appraisals. This is becoming more and more normal.

Also the introduction of clinical governance meetings and infection control teams. There is a lot we can learn from human healthcare and this can be adapted to the veterinary industry very easily.

RE: Employer Code of Practice

jojofruits — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 14:19:23 GMT

Oh blimey where to start?! and the stories I could tell!!...

I would like to see...

Sufficient and appropriate training for people who are dealing with any staffing issues so that they actually know what do, what to record and what the employees rights are.

Respecting people's rights regarding privacy in meetings etc. the number of times this does not happen is astounding to me. important papers or emails left around.

Regular staff meetings - recorded.

Regular appraisals, performance reviews - recorded.

No discussion about employees by management to other members of staff if there are problems or issues with that member of staff .. goes without saying you would think right?!

Social media policy

I have loads more but I'll let someone else speak! lol

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Nick Shackleton — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 14:14:18 GMT

So I actually like the idea of a union. Having spent some time in human healthcare we have access to a variety of unions. We unison, which is a general union for all health professionals, am sure sure if we as veterinary professions can access this or not. However, as I cureently work in radiography we are members of the society of radiographers, which I guess is the equivalent of the BVNA. They provide CPD, monthly magazine and a union. Each hospital assigns a union rep that staff members can access to assist them with work related issues. I feel with a union behind us as veterinary professions we have more rights to refuse tings without the proper representation and support.

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 11:14:10 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"] perhaps it could be a VetNurse initiative.[/quote]

Cool. Are you asking the vets on vetsurgeon.org about their thoughts and ideas?

Ali h

I am sad that any Union is tarred with the confrontational brush as a matter of routine. Sigh. They can't all be bad, can they?! Perhaps I am too naïve. Hey ho.

I do support the thought of nurse solidarity; being willing and able to stand together to say STOP to unfair treatment, which we all know happens.

So. Crack on. VNI, let's Crack on!

RE: Employer Code of Practice

VetNurse Anon a/c — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:43:00 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"] c) fairness - it strikes me as utterly unfair that the PM in this case was proposed as the witness/note taker (was it?). [/quote]

Yes the PM was the initial witness/note taker AND the instigator of the original complaint - although she didn't personally 'witness' anything. I have since found out that the colleague that i raised my voice to had said in her witness statement that I was merely 'stroppy' and hasn't uttered the words 'intimidating, aggressive, rude or overly angry' - which is what I am being charged with! I have also found out that the person who is to take the hearing is the regional business manager and who was responsible for escalating the case to HR in the first place. How unfair is that as he has a vested interest in the financial viability of the failing practice!

Seems very unfair all round. This is the first time in 30 years I have worked for a 'corporate' business. I will be VERY wary next time round, that's for sure

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:35:41 GMT

[quote user="Alison Clare Hickman"]how about a joint venture with http://www.bvu.org.uk/[/quote]

I'd be very hesitant. I think that there's a perception that unions are confrontational, and I don't think that it would be positive to have a voluntary code associated with one.

If it were not to be BVNA, perhaps it could be a VetNurse initiative.

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:32:26 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I can't help feeling that it should never have reached an official disciplinary process in the first place.[/quote]

Darn tootin! 100% all of me agrees with this.

As for a Union, someone to turn to for advice and support - how about a joint venture with http://www.bvu.org.uk/

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:26:26 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]and on that note - I will close the door on my way out.[/quote]

Steady - t'was only a thought! And the thinking was just to give it a touch of official weight, if that makes sense (which the BVNA could lend it, regardless of what you think of the BVNA).

[quote user="katseyez"]when the answer could possibly be, once all the evidence is in and processed - we have decided to de-escalate the issue and deal with it 'in house' as we do not feel a formal hearing will be in the best interests of BOTH parties.[/quote]

Well for me, reading that story from Anon in the other thread, I can't help feeling that it should never have reached an official disciplinary process in the first place. In those kinds of situations there should be a process in place that ensures that any minor disagreement / spat etc is defused without going to some great big investigation, with all the stress and worry that causes, not to mention the culture of fear and blame that it fosters.

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:15:42 GMT

http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/f/m/Acas-Code-of-Practice-1-on-disciplinary-and-grievance-procedures.pdf

For information and guidance to anyone - can we get ideas from it?

Ali h

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Tania Ford — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:15:09 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]b) Fair and rapid disciplinary/complaint process based on de-escalation.[/quote]

Yes I fully agree with this one, as it can seem that the answer you get whilst waiting for a disciplinary hearing, is that its all a matter of procedure now, and that procedure must now be taken to the highest limit - when the answer could possibly be, once all the evidence is in and processed - we have decided to de-escalate the issue and deal with it 'in house' as we do not feel a formal hearing will be in the best interests of BOTH parties.

Have to say that its refreshing hearing peoples accounts of what has happened and how they have dealt with them and knowing that you are not alone. Its also amazing to see so many people on the side of the downtrodden and innocent people. We should stick together when necessary, as it keeps morale and hopefulness up

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 09:56:12 GMT

Kinda with Sal on that one... I've only seen one post that gave thanks to any constructive help from the BVNA in this regard. Mostly (and in my own experience) the description 'less use than a chocolate teapot' springs to mind... sorry BVNA - you try but you fail.

The Tiger needs teeth. So a solicitor, shop steward (Union)... someone or something with True Grit, (not the remit of the BVNA in my experience) and will also act professionally, respectfully and fair-mindedly (the remit of the BVNA?).

Ali h

RE: Employer Code of Practice

Sal the 1st — Wed, 02 Aug 2017 08:59:31 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

it occurs to me that this is something BVNA might like to take ownership of

[/quote]

and on that note - I will close the door on my way out.