locum agencies

RE: locum agencies

PHA86 — Wed, 23 Aug 2017 08:43:49 GMT

[quote user="ewa gajda"]

Ltd is also fine. Some practices won’t pay self-employed due to the change in legislation.

How many of you are Ltd? any advice, tips, website.

Ta x

[/quote]

Hi Ewa,

Please may you PM me your email address? I'm trying to reply to your message but it is almost impossible on a mobile phone!

Many thanks

RE: locum agencies

Sal the 1st — Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:04:35 GMT

has anybody ever bumped up their rate because they really don't want the job and then have the practice come back to them accepting the higher rate? - beware! I did it twice and they were both hell holes!

I was self employed and employed at the same time (yep its possible) and a few times just asked the practice to put me on their books - they were happy , I was happy and tax man was happy

RE: locum agencies

ewagajda — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 23:19:01 GMT

Ltd is also fine. Some practices won’t pay self-employed due to the change in legislation.

How many of you are Ltd? any advice, tips, website.

Ta x

RE: locum agencies

PHA86 — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 16:34:29 GMT

Thanks for your reply Alison.

The reason I increased my rate was because the head nurse at the clinic I was locuming for at the time advised me that my rate was low, so I was a little surprised when the agency said my new rate was extremely high. It did throw into question who is making the loss, but I have managed to get more jobs with the new rate so it's really hard to gauge what is right. I don't want to be taking the biscuit, however I don't want to be selling myself short either!

The clinic paying directly into my umbrella account is certainly food for thought also, thanks for that...!

RE: locum agencies

David Hawthorne — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 15:51:37 GMT

[quote user="Paris M"]But as the business developed I have found that my mentality has developed with regards to working as a contractor.[/quote]

Absolutely and we do not object to people wanting to go it alone once they have found their feet. The majority of my locums are people starting out who need a helping hand adjusting to the locum world and how it works.

[quote user="Paris M"]I understand that some locums would want to focus solely on nursing rather than involving the business side of it. Its personally an aspect that I enjoy and building direct relationships with client practices is the icing on the locum cake, so far as I am concerned but that's just me [/quote]

I completely agree with you. Which is why I think there is, and always will be, room for both ways of working in the industry :D

RE: locum agencies

Paris M — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 15:46:31 GMT

[quote user="David Hawthorne"]it is becoming increasingly easier to reach out to practices via these channels (social media etc) but it is not uncommon for people to pay other people to do the "leg work" as it were. Agencies are the same situation except they're free for you to use. It is more convenient for some people who have a busy work/family life to leave the searching to us - and the difficult conversations of negotiating money/terms of contracts/working hours[/quote]

Social media is completely free to use sites like linkedin, twitter and facebook do not charge, so the option to use an agencies services for free would only save you money if you decided to pay someone to do your media marketing for you. This is an aspect of my business that I personally enjoy, its easy, free and fast. It is much more convenient for the practice and myself to have a direct line of communication.

As for difficult conversations of negotiating money, terms of contract, working hours? When I first started out, i was still in a almost employee nurse mentality, what i mean by this is that I was at first inclined to maybe not charge for my time as appropriately as I should have . But as the business developed I have found that my mentality has developed with regards to working as a contractor. I think i would have missed out on huge personal growth if I had outsourced to an agency. Having a detailed terms of business means that there is no difficulty in managing contracts at all.

I understand that some locums would want to focus solely on nursing rather than involving the business side of it. Its personally an aspect that I enjoy and building direct relationships with client practices is the icing on the locum cake, so far as I am concerned but that's just me :)

RE: locum agencies

David Hawthorne — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 15:12:41 GMT

[quote user="Alison Clare Hickman"] It happens, sadly. However not all agencies are like this and I have experienced a really caring (few) who have gone above, beyond and out of hours to provide support and guidance.[/quote]

I work for an agency, and all my locums have my mobile number and I have become quite good friends with some locum nurses over the years . I even used to meet one for a coffee every now and again, who I had helped move over here from Australia and she worked with me for 3 years!

It does depend on each consultant I think rather than the agency, and where their values lie.

[quote user="Alison Clare Hickman"]A few agencies have set fees which are separate, so the locum decides what rate they want (within reason) and they tell the practice what they are looking for etc and charge their fee on top, separately. So it does not affect the locums rate of pay at all.[/quote]

As far as fees go, we charge a flat rate per day to our clients, and we put our nurses forward at the hourly rate they usually charge. Obviously we will advise on what we know about the market rate in that location, their experience level etc. but ultimately it is up to you (isn't that the point of locumming?)

However if I feel that the practice and the nurse are a good fit, but it is not affordable for the practice to pay both my rate and the nurses hourly rate - I will lower my fee to subsidise the nurses hourly rate. No one should lose out due to fees.

[quote user="Paris M"]I also disagree on a personal note of a agency making money of my back for doing nothing. Sure its the practice that ends up paying the fees but I feel that the middle man really isn't warranted in this modern era.[/quote]

The service agencies provide are free to locum nurses and we will do all the work for you with regards to finding you a job and ensuring you have continuous work. It's not that we make money for doing nothing, we just take the work load on from you. You are right, it is becoming increasingly easier to reach out to practices via these channels (social media etc) but it is not uncommon for people to pay other people to do the "leg work" as it were. Agencies are the same situation except they're free for you to use. It is more convenient for some people who have a busy work/family life to leave the searching to us - and the difficult conversations of negotiating money/terms of contracts/working hours.

I think there are pros and cons to both methods of working as a locum it just depends on the situation

RE: locum agencies

Alison Clare Hickman — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:57:18 GMT

[quote user="Paris M"]

Are there any practice managers or JVPs that would like to offer some opinions on the hiring of locums through either agencies or directly?

It would be really interesting and helpful as we only often hear from a locum viewpoint.

[/quote]

A large amount would probably say that they would prefer to have a locum direct
to avoid agency fees. Some would say that they don’t want the hassle of
sourcing the locum or pay rolling them etc.

In general the issue is that practices don’t have the large resource that an agency has to be able to obtain their own locums without help. It’s the same in any sector, agencies are a
fundamental part of locum and or perm recruitment.

Don’t get me wrong there is a lot of good and bad out there, which at times can create a bad picture all round. On the locums side, a lot find building a good relationship with an
agency works well, as they have consistent work booked in via the agency and
are guaranteed to be paid every week.

Ali h

RE: locum agencies

Alison Clare Hickman — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:39:53 GMT

And another point is...

If an agency is against it, it could also mean that they have put in a set fee say £20 per hour to include their fee and the locums hourly rate. So it is in their interest not to pay the locum anymore, as it will come off their margin!!

A few agencies have set fees which are separate, so the locum decides what rate they want (within reason) and they tell the practice what they are looking for etc and charge their fee on top, separately. So it does not affect the locums rate of pay at all.

Does this help?

Ali h

RE: locum agencies

Paris M — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:34:03 GMT

Are there any practice managers or JVPs that would like to offer some opinions on the hiring of locums through either agencies or directly?

It would be really interesting and helpful as we only often hear from a locum viewpoint.

RE: locum agencies

Alison Clare Hickman — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:30:04 GMT

[quote user="PHA86"]when I decided to increase my hourly rate.[/quote]

It is normal for locums to increase/decrease their hourly rate dependent on the practice, experience, location, hours, duties, length of position, travel, accommodation etc. It depends on what the rate is, as it may be higher than the norm? I'd be asking them exactly why they advised this!!

[quote user="PHA86"]I am quite curious to know if I went direct to a clinic, can they still pay me via my umbrella company, or must you go limited for that? [/quote]

Most practices are fine to pay the Umbrella company, but the umbrella company won’t advance the locums pay until they have been paid by the practice, unlike the employment agencies (not introducers) that advance all locums wages upfront prior to being paid by the practice. Ltd is also fine. Some practices won’t pay self-employed due to the change in legislation.

Hth!

RE: locum agencies

PHA86 — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:02:55 GMT

The agency I use have been really good and definitely feel valued, although I do often think it would be relatively easy to set up by yourself.

The only slight issue I've had was when I decided to increase my hourly rate. Not sure whether they were advising against it for genuine reasons, or to protect their client from bigger fees?!

I am quite curious to know if I went direct to a clinic, can they still pay me via my umbrella company, or must you go limited for that?

RE: locum agencies

Alison Clare Hickman — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 11:26:56 GMT

[quote user="Paris M"]they do not communicate well with locums in my experience and I feel that they do not care about the RVN at all.[/quote]

It happens, sadly. However not all agencies are like this and I have experienced a really caring (few) who have gone above, beyond and out of hours to provide support and guidance. Particularly for veterinary professionals in strife and those with special needs for their placements. These agencies are out there, however it is clear that (in my opinion) many, if not all of, the major players are in it just for the cash they can extract... the difference is this - does the agency hunt or garden? Hunters go in for the quick kill whilst gardeners till the soil, sow the seed, harvest the crop and replenish the soil, and so forth; so they can help the seed flourish again.

I get the savings to the practice element argument and have succeeded in securing many locum placements myself under this as a selling point! Nevertheless, I would still maintain that a great agency, that cares and looks after your career, is a great option.

I do know of one agency I would recommend. I declare an interest as it is run by a trusted good-hearted friend and for whom I write a VN Blog. The owner left one of the 'major players' in disgust at how shabbily they were expected to treat their clients (both practices and professionals) and also their staff! What a carry on. He set up on his own. His foundation stone belief system is caring for your career and you as a person and protecting your interests as well as those of the practices on his books. He is one in a million and, as I said , I trust and respect him - I don't say it lightly. I came on-board with him solely as a result of a natter we were having one day about compassion and found a like-minded caring individual who is willing to put himself on the line for you.

I guess it comes down to finding the right jigsaw puzzle for your shape to fit comfortably. Or, that shining needle in the haystack of cr*d...to mix up a metaphor!

Thanks for listening folks.

Ali h

RE: locum agencies

Paris M — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:16:20 GMT

Hi Sal

This is a bit of a passionate issue for me as a self employed locum. Like you, my main clients are ones that I have obtained through my own reputation. I have used an introduction agency twice in the last four years of being a locum RVN. I quickly discovered that agencies will say absolutely anything to get you to fill a vacancy, they do not communicate well with locums in my experience and I feel that they do not care about the RVN at all.

An example of this are the many emails I receive from agencies often stating 'we have many great vacancies in your area' and when you ask them directly, they have no idea where you are based at all! I had one the other day on linkedin saying 'we notice you are based in the London area' (I am based in the East midlands).

I also disagree on a personal note of a agency making money of my back for doing nothing. Sure its the practice that ends up paying the fees but I feel that the middle man really isn't warranted in this modern era. Social media is now so commonplace that there are so many channels locums can use to arrange their own work directly with practice managers and JVPS. The locum nurse map found here at Vetnurse.co.uk is one of those options, an absolutely fantastic idea that I wish more practice managers would use.

Booking locums directly saves a bucket load of practice money and also helps foster long term beneficial relationships between a locum and a practice. I cherish my direct clients and will bend over backwards to supply a good service to a valued practice.

As a locum I too am interested in how employers approach the process of finding RVNs :)