Struggling at work

RE: Struggling at work

Sal the 1st — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 19:29:29 GMT

well if not on the register not an RVN simple as - so that needs rectifying. Normally I don't bother with titles post noms or anything else but seeing as I have to pay 60 odd quid under duress year on year (not counting CPD costs) to enable me to do my job I don't see why anybody else wanting to call themselves RVN should get away with it.

RE: Struggling at work

Alison Clare Hickman — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 18:38:28 GMT

Aw honey, you are going round in circles.

If you really truly absolutely can't brave talking to the boss, then maybe book an appointment with your doctor about your stress and anxiety and insomnia. Talk to your doctor? Then take it from there? You do need someone on-side with you... non-judgemental and able to assist you to see a way forwards.

Hugs a million times.

Ali h

RE: Struggling at work

VetNurse Anon a/c — Thu, 23 Feb 2017 17:53:50 GMT

so, un be known to me, my boss and this nurse have been discussing doing extra days-and that to start them next week.

I walk into kennels and she jumps it on me-and then says-oh I haven't actually discussed this with you...

its getting more and more frustrating and without trying to upset anyone with what im next going to say...it upsets me and I'm not trying to offend anyone on here at all...

On the practice website the nurse is put as an RVN....just like myself and the other RVNs are-but the nurse isn't registered and I feel personally the nurse doesn't have the knowledge to back up being an RVN...I'm not trying to get on the registered/non registered debate here...it just upsets me that I've worked hard for my qualification, this nurse who trained 20+ years ago (and worked and trained in another country), with 'outdated' knowledge and like working with a work experience student is classed the same as us RVN's....

Ive really tried not to get upset with this nurse, and I'm terrified of talking to my boss because I can't bear to be thought as nasty...I'm now dreading Mondays going in because I have to work with this nurse 4 days a week instead of 3. When today was a classic example of not taking direction again. why does the boss never see? and when I've mentioned in the past these things, does it feel my boss doesn't believe me whilst she defends this nurse?

RE: Struggling at work

Celine — Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:59:47 GMT

Yes, I wasn't at all suggest gossiping about this, rather asking some of your colleagues who have also expressed concern at her work to come with you to approach the manager so it can't be misconstrued as a personality clash or personal grudge.

RE: Struggling at work

jojofruits — Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:37:30 GMT

PS:

don't discuss any of this with your colleagues .. head nurses should stay well out of practice gossip!

RE: Struggling at work

jojofruits — Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:35:10 GMT

Have just sat and read this whole thread...

if I were you I would be writing down a lot of points - bullet points and then requesting a meeting with your boss..

get them to deal with it if you're not happy too..

being a head nurse you sometimes need to be tough - of course you can lead and be friendly but you have to be tough enough not to let things slide and have some respect from your team.. speaking up can be very difficult. and its not for everyone.

you have to do something here though - it may be that this new nurse wont pass her probation if she's impossible - but if she does? you're gonna all have to work together so best get it sorted!

RE: Struggling at work

Celine — Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:24:36 GMT

This is absolutely ridiculous. You need to have a quiet word with the vet not wanting to work lates with her, and the vet who had issues yesterday, and go to the practice manager / area manager / whatever together and state the issues. No-one is suggesting this person should be fired or whatever but something needs to be done or its just everyone standing around flapping their hands ineffectually and nothing being achieved. And as others have mentioned, patient welfare / standard of care is suffering.

If after all this you feel uncomfortable in the atmosphere in the practice you may feel you need to move to a new job - but you never know, this could be the making of you! Have confidence in yourself, you have shown you are an excellent nurse by caring enough to raise this issue with us, now forge ahead and make yourself a better future! Good luck

RE: Struggling at work

VetNurse Anon a/c — Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:00:24 GMT

No, they can't. One vet doesn't want to work with this nurse if they are soley in charge on a late.

This nurse honestly can't hear-the heart or instructions from the vet during a procedure. Case in point yesterday whilst x-ray a dog, they didn't hear half of what the vet was saying about postioning and the settings etc-pretty frustrating for the vet. When the vet then gets snappy because the nurse isn't hearing them, the nurse then gets huffy...catch 22!

RE: Struggling at work

Sal the 1st — Wed, 15 Feb 2017 08:19:42 GMT

[quote user="qwerty9263"]

Gee, I feel so bad for you. If she doesn't listen to you, can you get one of your vets to say something to her? Even a (very loud and maybe not so subtle) "I don't know why my hand towel is underneath, it's so annoying..."

[/quote]

maybe the vets can't manage her either? I work with two people like this.

RE: Struggling at work

qwerty9263 — Tue, 14 Feb 2017 23:43:43 GMT

RE: Struggling at work

billikins — Sun, 12 Feb 2017 22:23:15 GMT

the most important thing in our job is the animals welfare and if you think this nurses knowledge and actions is compromising their care you need to say something. Its important to be diplomatic and caring towards your staff but it doesn't sound like your actions are the issue, it's her attitude.

Having a sit down with her to find the route of the conflict, with a witness of her choice, might be a good first step. Maybe encourage CPD. But you can't leave this else you'll go mad, and it's not worth your sanity to spare her feelings.

good luck

RE: Struggling at work

Scottywildcat — Fri, 10 Feb 2017 18:48:39 GMT

Your practice sounds so unprofessional! Making a newly qualified nurse Head VN? No way should that have happened! Especially as you are getting it in the neck for mistakes that you make due to total inexperience and lack of training, so unfair! And why is your boss ' singing the praises' of the new nurse when she sounds like a total liability and you get criticised all the time? This is just not right at all, I'm so sorry for you that your going through this, I really don't know what to say to help but I know if it was me and I had a boss like yours who seemed hell bent on wrecking my confidence while building people up who so don't deserve it, well I would actually start looking for another job. Can you not go to your boss and explain that you don't feel confident enough ( or valued enough ) to be head nurse and is there any way someone else could take that position? Maybe they don't realise how bad you feel? I really feel for you and hope you can sort this x

RE: Struggling at work

Alison Clare Hickman — Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:14:17 GMT

[quote user="VetNurse Anon a/c"] I just put up with it and bottle it[/quote]

You bottle all of this and you'll explode. Uncork and talk; yes - to your boss. It truly, honestly, really, definitely and absolutely will help you. If the upshot is that you aren't HN anymore, what a relief. If the upshot is you get some training or support to help you do the HN role more effectively, what a relief. If the upshot is you get it all off your chest, mega relief.

[quote user="VetNurse Anon a/c"]I now there are loads of you reading this thinking how petty and get over it get over yourself[/quote]

No, sweetheart, we absolutely do not. Promise! Many of us have been exactly where you are now and struggled too. It's only when you stop and address the issues by bravely being honest and asking for help you realise that the silly thing is NOT talking about things to the people who can help you make changes (your boss) and find suffering in silence causes half, if not more, of the whole problem.

I am going to be bold and say this... Your boss needs to support you, sounds as though they aren't; however maybe YOU aren't giving them enough of an opportunity to do so?

Don't hide away and think it will all get better by itself, it clearly hasn't so far and in fact sounds as though it's getting worse. What I want for you is happiness in your life, career and team so please take the brave step to say "Stop, I've had enough and I am not coping well"; "Listen to my story please"; and "I would really appreciate your help"

Thousands of hugs and, most importantly, am sending you ten-tonnes of brave-heart thru the airwaves.

Ali h

RE: Struggling at work

VetNurse Anon a/c — Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:46:31 GMT

I think Alison you have hit the nail on the head....

[quote user="Alison Clare Hickman"]

4. Rota/days off: obviously designing and maintaining an effective rota is your responsibility. If the design of the rota itself is ineffective, then it needs to be changed. However if it is the maintenance of it that is failing, this comes under the heading of successful people management. As a manager you will always have to make unpopular decisions e.g. "Sorry, no, you can't have that day off but I can let you have X off". Tough love I call it. To be fair and equal to all. You will sometimes lose a friend temporarily but, hey, that's what you get paid the extra bucks for, unfortunately. To be the bearer of both bad and good news.

This is based on a firm but fair system for ALL (you included). If a manager succumbs to the popularity contest of giving everyone everything every time then, yes, the toll of doing so will always end in a distressed and tattered manager!

As a manager, you will always have to look at the whole picture not just meeting one person's expectations and always at your own cost. Of course there will be exceptional circumstances when it is kind, sensible or unavoidable to do so.

I've worked in practices where gaps in the rota are always filled by the HN working it. HN then gets overworked, stressed and sick. This happens, I think, when they believe (or are led to believe) it is their role to do so. Nooooooooo!!! I think it is a sensible and good management technique to do so only as an exception and never as a general rule.

[/quote]

im a inexperienced head nurse with sometimes little or no support. I do feel sometimes I'm left to my own devices, then when I do things I get in trouble because I've not spoken to my boss first. I think I should maybe look into cpd for head nurses...but still I feel im inadequate for the job-my boss sings the praises of this new wonderful nurse and I get nothing but criticism....I've never known if im doing a good job because im not told either way-this is why my boss confuses me.

When our head nurse left, I felt a bit like 'oh your here, you know the practice you be head nurse' and I was kind of left to it as a newly qualified nurse. I wasn't given any training and only had the old nurse protocols to go by-even when doing the rota-only after I'd spent hours doing it and ensuring it was fair and when we were half way through it was I told actually you've done that wrong-ok...so some of you might say well why didn't you ask-but sometimes it's a two way street and I think I'm afraid of asking-I feel ashamed because I feel I should just know.

I find it really hard to say no you can't have that day off....I did and the nurse in question made me feel like satan...the worse head nurse in the world and gave me silent treatment for ages after until she got her way-and in a small practice with 4 nurses on at one time you can't avoid someone giving you the silent treatment. (there isn't much extra bucks either!) This results in as you say-me constantly filling up the gap or doing two late shifts a week, and no thanks for it-one week I ended up doing three lates and two 9 hours op shifts-I’m not sure anyone noticed! The more you describe the more I see wrong with my role as head nurse- I think there are far better nurses out there better qualified for this role.

The other nurse this post was originally about-case in point yesterday- they were left to their own devices getting to know the theatre and prep room again-because week after week they forget. I come in this morning for my ops shift and things are moved or added too or replaced-why do this? They aren’t necessary bad improvements or good improvements…they just take it upon themselves to change things without asking first-because they feel their way is better-they don’t ask-they just do. I’m open to things changing-but ask first. Because I get it in the neck when the vet questions why something has changed sometimes for the worst and I know nothing about it. E.g we have each surgical kit wrapped in eco drape and taped with bowie dick tape then a hand towel on the top and then placed in a autoclave bag-this nurse decides to put the hand towel underneath the kit so it makes it almost impossible to get the handtowel out in a sterile manner-why do this? You haven’t been told, it works fine this way-ask before you change?

I now there are loads of you reading this thinking how petty and get over it get over yourself-but little things pile up and up and I get it in the neck from other vets because things are changing and I know nothing about them. This is why I dread being on shift with them or after them because I’ve no idea what they’ve done next. I feel I can’t speak to my boss because I don’t want my boss to feel I’m complaining or being nasty or rude and I just wouldn’t want that-I can’t bear to think I’ve created a bullying atmosphere so I just put up with it and bottle it.

RE: Struggling at work

Alison Clare Hickman — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 18:40:50 GMT

Aw, you are being awfully hard on yourself.

Here's some more thoughts of mine...

1. No job is worth this amount of continuing stress, so yes, something needs to change. Maybe that is you but not because you are 'faulty' but rather more because you are inexperienced as a manager and therefore need some training/help? If you were an SVN and struggling, let's say to catheterise veins, your HN would make sure you got some supervised hands on training and practice until you got better at it. Why is acquiring the skills required to be a successful manager (HN) any different to that? It isn't. So that leads me to number 2...

2. Have you ever been given any training in resources management (people and time, for example)? Or any kind of management training before elevated to the role?

I would be very inclined to explain to your boss that you are struggling with a couple of aspects of your role (e.g. speaking confidence and people management) and therefore need some specific training to address these areas requiring development. Having some areas requiring development doesn't mean you are not doing the rest of the role well!

3. Why does your boss confuse you?

The HN is a manager whose responsibility it is to identify the gap, try to fill it and if he/she cannot do so, (having extensively tried to), to then raise the problem up the line for the boss to deal with and make a final decision.

A HN is 'middle management' in my view. 'Pig in the middle' would sometimes be a better description in my own experience, (if I might say that!). So, transfer the ultimate responsibility upwards rather than covering the problem up and paying the price yourself.

5. Nurse meetings: how do the subjects to discuss appear on the agenda? One way to get other people engaged/speaking is for the subjects to be talked about by the person who raised it. A blank piece of paper entitled' Nurses meeting Topics' (with a date for the next meeting) put up on a notice board/wall for your team to write on can be a great way to create involvement. Ask for initials after the subject so you know who wrote what. Also, you could rotate 'secretary' (note writer and minutes typer-upper) and 'chair' (person reading out the list) between the team. Or identify who is good at taking notes or chairing and let them do it regularly. I've also been a little bit sneaky when faced with a bossy/loud and over-opinionated colleague and asked them to do the note-taking - it tended to keep them quieter as they had to listen instead...

6. Shyness. It can mean that those with stronger personalities learn they can speak over you as your silence green-lights the behaviour. Unchallenged 'suggestions', even those that are excellently thought through, those that are well-meant but poorly devised or those just downright rude ones, can then become the norm and colleagues feel so free to speak their minds they do so without realising you might be feeling extremely undermined by what you see as a challenge to your authority/status quo/what is safe.

How to overcome? I would advise you to take on board all suggestions for different methodologies/ideas with no agreement given to make the change unless risk to life, limb etc. Say thank you for the input and be seen to take them on board e.g. write them down or ask for the ideas by email to you. Everyone is advised that your decision will be made in due course. You can then consider the suggestions at your own leisure/pace. Once your reflections are done and your decision is made, let your team know. This is good team management and communication techniques.

7. Promotion upwards (and especially into management) is not for everyone - some of us need to go sideways instead e.g. specialising as a consult nurse, in behavioural science or whatever your 'thing' is. Going upwards can be a stretch too far and it will always be uncomfortable. For example, you might be an outstanding Senior Nurse and step up skilfully to the plate of Acting HN from time to time; but no way are you great at being HN for ever. Your HN cannot do without the skills you bring to the table as his/her deputy and is a poor echo of the team that the two of you are together in your absence. You are the power behind the throne and that's absolutely fine! Or, you might find your skills are far better suited being a team member rather than the team leader; there is absolutely no shame in that whatsoever. I liken it to being at the funfair... a strange analogy perhaps, but here it is... I cannot do the waltsers (going round has always made me very ill - see, I've tried it and found it didn't work for me), however I can do the ghost ride (not scared, again, again!), the roller coaster, (wheeeeeee! More please) and the coconut shies, (good shot!). So I am great at three things and only need to avoid one. Happy days.

To want to resign from the post of HN when you are untrained, stressed, overworked, angry, upset, confused and feeling absolutely crap as a result is understandable. You might blame yourself totally for your perceived lack of success - but is it really all your fault? I absolutely think not! So, how about considering the possibility that you can be a happy success if you get some encouragement, support and appropriate training under your belt? Try it with some support. Can you ask for this? Do you want to try?

As I offered up in my original post to you; and others have said the same thing - a discussion with your boss is needed. For your peace of mind, if nothing else, to share the weight you are carrying.

Let us know how you get on and share more here; we're ever so happy to help you if we can.

Hugs.

Ali h

RE: Struggling at work

VetNurse Anon a/c — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 15:33:01 GMT

The nurse is a lot older then me and both myself and another nurse feel they don't like taking advice from either of us. They question why they should do something when asked or feel another way would be better.

I do think that scottywildcat has hit the nail on the head......I'm struggling to cope with the responsibility of head nurse. I don't feel I'm a leader really and I am a walk over really when it comes to the rota and booking days off, I put everyone ahead of myself. I've been told I can't say no. I came into this position, it wasn't something I applied for, it just thought of feel into my lap. I'm terrible at nurses meetings-but when I have them I struggle to know what to say. Usually I just speak to each nurse one on one.

Maybe all this comes down to my fault.....because I'm a terrible head nurse, but when I ask for feed back from the other nurses-they have nothing to say. And my boss confuses me. I'm not a born leader and terribly shy....thinking about it, its my fault really-I'm not meant to be head nurse.

RE: Struggling at work

Celine — Thu, 09 Feb 2017 11:20:18 GMT

Without wanting to try to shove this person aside I'm also wondering if this nurse would possibly even prefer to have a slightly different role created for her? I've worked in practices where the older returned-to-work nurses have taken on specific responsibility for the pharmacy / lab / consults etc and this was because they didn't feel like anaesthesia etc was something they were comfortable / confident in any longer. I don't know if this is the case at all with your nurse though as it sounds from some of your description that she's perhaps OVER confident, but something to bear in mind if anyone gets any whiff that she may be feeling insecure and over-compensating as previously suggested. Hope the atmosphere gets better soon - agree you need to chat to the practice manager about this x

RE: Struggling at work

apache — Wed, 08 Feb 2017 23:35:22 GMT

Take this to your boss, a problem shared is a problem halved. Don't try and take on the burden all by yourself.

Explain the issues from your side and see if the boss can speak to them and then have a three way discussion. You leaving won't help, nor will you taking this on by yourself and it making yourself ill. Open communication channels and see if this can be fixed, if not then she should go. Perhaps the questioning is her reaching out for help and understanding?

RE: Struggling at work

Sal the 1st — Wed, 08 Feb 2017 20:35:12 GMT

[quote user="VetNurse Anon a/c"]

I'm a qualified, and have been so for 5+ years, but I'm struggling with work and a particular member of staff.

I feel awful because they are not a bully but they are the most annoying and frustrating person to work with ever.

They are an old school qualified who left nursing years ago and now has come back to nursing and I feel needs to go back to college to re-learn because they refuse to listen to what us as qualifieds say.

They take it upon themselves to do things or change things that worked fine before. They struggle to hear the heart rate and when they do they get it wrong-which worries me.

I feel awful posting this but its upsetting me. I try to be nice to everyone but me and this nurse just don't gel. I would never ever be nasty to anyone purposely. But I've already been accused of ignoring them and not talking to them, despite the fact I'm on regular shadow shifts with them so that they take control and I'm just there if needed.

They constantly question the other qualifieds and the vets and assume their way is better.

I'm struggling a huge amount because I can't bear to be the one accused of bullying and I would feel so awful if I was. I'm always civil to them and being head nurse I try my hardest to accommodate them in everyway, ensuring they are ok and every years at Christmas and easter I buy all the nurses an egg or xmas decoration and I ensured I included this nurse.

I had a long needed day off and got a txt from another member of staff to say this nurse had come to them in tears saying I never talked to them and they were really upset. I was heart broken because I hated to think I was the reason for someone being unhappy. I stewed over it the whole day off and my weekend worried and upset. I spoke to the nurse the week after and I apologised and explained I'm not a people person and I'm here to work etc, but now I feel stressed whenever I know them and I are on a shadow shift because I don't want to upset them in anyway.

I've gone from a reasonable confident theatre and anaesthetic nurse to a nervous wreck working with them and I'm not enjoying my job.

I'm sorry if this post is long winded and you will all probably think I'm a bully and to get over it but I don't know what to do.

I feel I cant go to my boss because I really don't want to cause an atmosphere and be accused of bullying or anything like that.

This is compounded by the fact I suffer with manic depression and already find life hard without the job I used to love now just being a chore. Not that this is in anyway an excuse.

I'm not sure leaving would help-do I just need to get on with it? or am I suspect I am-just being extremely stupid and selfish? and maybe I should leave so that this other nurse is happy?

[/quote]

a couple of things I noticed from what you have written

1) your leaving IS NOT going to make this nurse any happier - think about it - if you were to leave the practice is probably still going to employ somebody younger

2) perhaps your older nurse is feeling a bit left out even tho it isn't intentional (this is coming from somebody who comes into the old codger category) - do you think that could be a possibility? ie the other nurses have qualified more recently and all share the same 'generation' of knowledge and all speak the same 'language'. Could your unhappy nurse really be trying to show you that they aren't ready to be put out to grass yet and they are desperately trying to show you that they still have their uses?

Could you get her on side by finding something she is really good at and making her the practice 'go to' person for that area give her something to make her feel special rather than sidelined

RE: Struggling at work

Alison Clare Hickman — Wed, 08 Feb 2017 15:59:05 GMT

Hiya,

Am so sorry you are suffering like this. Hugs.

My solution to most, if not all, barriers to a happy me, a happy team and working environment is to communicate with people, and to do so even when I least feel like it e.g. when I want to hide in a dark cupboard because I am feeling sad, stressed and confused.

So, I would advise you to approach your boss and ask for a meeting to be arranged for you and the new nurse to talk things through with one another. Arrange it so that you have someone to support the pair of you. The meeting is to find a happy pathway for the whole team to follow.

I have always found a way through relationship difficulties by doing this. I have been consistently surprised by how differently other people think, view the world and feel whilst experiencing the same circumstances! Hearing what someone else thinks about their world is usually the key to resolving the misunderstanding/problem and coming to a mutually agreeable solution or compromise. In this case, it's a two-way street. You learn about her and she learns about you.

I sincerely hope you can find a friendly, happy and team-spirited relationship with your new nurse, or if not that, then at least a mutually respectful, polite professional one.

Let us know how you get on and keep your chin up, honeybee.

Ali h

RE: Struggling at work

Scottywildcat — Wed, 08 Feb 2017 15:57:01 GMT

Hello, that sounds absolutely terrible, you poor thing. Is this nurse a lot older than you? As I'm wondering if part of the problem is she doesn't like to defer to someone younger than her? Without opening up the whole 'qualified v unqualified' debate again I don't think the issue is her not having the up to date qualifications as years of experience can count for a lot more. She is obviously old fashioned and hasn't moved with the times so to speak and that's a dangerous way to be. For example you said she can't hear a heartbeat, well that's basic stuff that anyone should be able to do, qualified or not, old fashioned or not, and I'm amazed that someone can be working in practice without being able to do something as basic as that!

I don't think you leaving is the answer, nor should it be but truthfully do you feel like you struggle to cope with the responsibility of being head nurse? Are you intimidated by your colleague or could you get a bit tougher on her maybe? I think if people have tried to tell her nicely and she refuses to listen then its time to get a bit harder with her, she is after all comprising patient safety?

Good luck, hope you get it sorted x

RE: Struggling at work

therainyj — Tue, 07 Feb 2017 18:57:40 GMT

Nightmare. I'm sorry you're going through all of this.

Inbox me from your account if you want to chat x