New CPD consultation

RE: New CPD consultation

Jill Macdonald — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 15:43:58 GMT

Melanie, I share many of the views you've expressed there - and re support from practices - yes it can be poor - and it has to change. If that's not going to happen organically, then new proposals such as this should slowly force it to change. That can only be a good thing.

That's a good point about feedback from human medicine. It would be useful to see.

RE: New CPD consultation

Jill Macdonald — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 15:35:39 GMT

Sal, I think what you are talking about though, is a witch hunt, not constructive reflection. I take your point that if not performed correctly it can become non-constructive/destructive, but then so can anything.

Reflection should be about a straightforward consideration of what happened, why it happened, and how to do it better next time. In terms of learning that should be a personal process. I appreciate that there are many who are leading practices who may not have the skills to execute a constructive team reflection following a critical incident, but maybe these changes are an element of the opportunity to change that.

RE: New CPD consultation

Jill Macdonald — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 15:27:49 GMT

Robyn - that's a really good point regarding written reflection not being the best way for everyone - I hope you put that in your feedback in the consultation, as that's something to consider - ie how can reflection that isn't written still be 'counted'...

RE: New CPD consultation

Melanie Foster — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 14:30:57 GMT

Well it looks like there are some very strong views out there and I must admit it has confused me a little. I'm about to give my views and opinions on the CPD consultation via the link from my VNPDR and I hope everyone else will as well.

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite VN"]I dont know what this new lot is l dont waste time putting my views to them as they will be ignored as our comments always are but given rcvs deciding it then it will be a waste of my time [/quote]

I used to think the above, that our lives as RVN's were decided by office people who had no idea what it is like for us working in practice. There may still be some truth in this? I understand more now though (personally) that if I actually have an interest I'd learn more about the direction we are heading in as a profession. I do work to live but I also want to be as good a nurse as I can be, and to do this I need to keep up with changes and refresh certain skills.

I do not think certain CPD is going to be obsolete. Everything will still count, I'm sure we are still going to do those free webinars that interest us even if it's not relevant to our everyday practice and I don't think this is wrong.

The way practices view CPD would need to be changed. The employer must have a certain responsibility and support towards the employee to help them achieve personal goals. I'd hope that reflection is not meant to be an attack towards a persons weaknesses. I know that it doesn't take much to knock my confidence, I don't know how much this is meant to be psycho-analysed.

My final point would be whether feedback has been given in the human medicine field about how this model worked for them? Are we just trying to 'keep up with the Jones' rather than developing an individual model that works for our line of work?

Interesting incites people. Thank you

RE: New CPD consultation

Robyn — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 12:49:09 GMT

The reflection part is the part that has me slightly concerned. I did the degree and honestly found the reflective exercises so draining and demoralising, but I think this is just because of how I work - I do something, reflect on it in my head to myself as soon as the consequences are clear, and move on. I do not find structured, written reflection to be useful. I agree that it's something we do all need to do, but I also think it's something we do already do. How many of us really have a bad vein day and don't reflect on what we're going to differently the next time we do the same thing? And how many of us implement new protocols or changes to how something is done and don't come back to analyse how successful it's been and if anything else needs to be done? Not many I would wager, and does it really matter if it's formally recorded or not? I just don't think the push towards formal reflective practice is warranted, and I don't think it's going to be used effectively if it is implemented, so why bother.

RE: New CPD consultation

Caro Laithwaite VN — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 05:36:18 GMT

I dont know what this new lot is l dont waste time putting my views to them as they will be ignored as our comments always are but given rcvs deciding it then it will be a waste of my time l dont rate cpd and have yet to use pretty much anything l have learnt in cpd because the vets call the donkey and make decisions.

I am obviously by some of your lots standards a waste of time and air because l dont spend a massive amount of time studying but l am not a hypocrite over this lot it is a job l have a life outside of work l work to live l dont live to work. I do what l do cpd because l am forced to not because l want to unless free and food involved l will do those "happily"" the rest is forced on me

Reflections what a box ticking to justify nothing l hope it doesnt happen if it does yet more time wasted of my life and more money no doubt by a group l have no like no respect no time no feeling for they are politicos and sense and forward thinking well if it wasnt 5am and l am not able to get back sleep which is why l had a look at this lot l would laugh.

What survey l have had nothing and a webinar what! I have no intention of watching yet more politicos drone on.

RE: New CPD consultation

Sal the 1st — Mon, 25 Jul 2016 19:53:50 GMT

[quote user="Jill Macdonald"]

And Sal the 1st, I'd like to add that I am not being antagonistic in any way - I think it's great that we may have opposing views and can discuss them in a constructive way :)

[/quote]

I didn't think you were. Everybody is different and everybody sees things slightly differently

RE: New CPD consultation

Sal the 1st — Mon, 25 Jul 2016 19:48:53 GMT

ok a bit more on reflection which can turn destructive - and I am not by any means saying that all reflection is destructive because I have seen plenty of positive outcomes from it , just not all.

if a situation arises involving a group of people where something goes wrong - yes its good to talk it through and work out where things could be done differently next time with hopefully a more positive outcome and everybody learns a bit

BUT

what happens when the PM of the event turns into a witch hunt (and yes it happens) and you have somebody who may already be lacking in confidence? is reflection going to really help them or destroy the little confidence they have? I have seen this happen with both vets and nurses

RE: New CPD consultation

Selena Carnell — Mon, 25 Jul 2016 19:34:41 GMT

Just as an observation, yes this will work well in theory, if you have a supportive employer, if you have a CPD budget, if you have a place that does appraisals. I know this sound very negative but my last work place gave no budget for CPD, had no appraisals, even the vets hardly every did any relevant CPD, they vaguely listened to lunch and learn but actively avoided reps, hardly ever took onboard any new idea and one vet felt threatened if you actually suggested anything or tried to introduce new things. I browse CPD and book what am interested in and what might be relevant, luckily i now have a supportive employer.

RE: New CPD consultation

Jill Macdonald — Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:40:20 GMT

And Sal the 1st, I'd like to add that I am not being antagonistic in any way - I think it's great that we may have opposing views and can discuss them in a constructive way :)

RE: New CPD consultation

Jill Macdonald — Mon, 25 Jul 2016 14:15:41 GMT

Hi Sal, thanks, and yes, you're bob on, as an educator, I do see these changes as a positive step - however I also see it that way from my perspective as a RVN and as someone who wants to see the profession move forwards.

I really think that the changes the RCVS propose will not make big changes to how most people do their CPD. I think they are subtle changes that will make a big difference! I certainly don't think that CPD will become more expensive or that there will be less that is seen as applicable - I actually think that by planning and choosing CPD more wisely, and by reflecting on learning - far more can be taken from it and it will actually become more cost effective.

I agree re 'too much' reflection might not be positive, but I was interested to see you used the word 'destructive' and I wondered what experiences led you to feel that way. And over-emphasized? I currently feel it is very much under-emphasised - reflective practice is something we should all be confdient to use in our everyday professional lives, it should be something that helps us learn, move forward, deal with difficult things - and yet from my experience, many in the profession shy away from it - even view it with disdain. Encouraging reflective skills is a positive step. It doesn't have to be overkill...

For anyone who hasn't watched the webinar, take a look - it is very informative, and much of it led by Kathy Kissick, who is of course a RVN.

I'd like to point out that I have no association, apart from registration, with the RCVS. :) I merely think that what they are doing is sensible, forward thinking, and will benefit the profession in the long run.

Let's hope the consultation achieves a good level of response.

Jill

RE: New CPD consultation

Sal the 1st — Sat, 23 Jul 2016 02:11:39 GMT

I'm not being funny - I'm really not, but as a course provider then yes you are going to find this a positive step, and I respect that - teaching is obviously your bag.

Myself I am very very worried that what we are going to end up with will actually be fewer CPD opportunities from fewer 'approved' providers on subjects decided for us at premium prices and whether these will actually be relevant to our everyday jobs/employers will be a by the bye. I am very concerned that we are still hurtling ever faster down the road to oblivion using a route planner provided by the NHS (and it doesn't even work for them). I am all for change but make it original and relevant to my job not somebody elses.

I totally agree with you that CPD should not be about a box ticking exercise - I have never seen it that way

[quote user="Jill Macdonald"]

Reflection - well I just love it! I learnt a lot about this when I was setting up/teaching the vets CertAVP stuff, and it really is such a little jewel in assisting professional development, and in helping you get the best from your learning. It also has a maissive impact on wellbeing and coping with practice!

[/quote]

A little reflection yes can be a very good thing but taken too far can be very destructive not just to an individual but a whole team and whilst reflection can be useful I don't feel it should be over emphasized. There are people who spend a lifetime in therapy as a result of reflection - and therapists who make a bundle encouraging them to reflect some more.

RE: New CPD consultation

Jill Macdonald — Fri, 22 Jul 2016 16:05:49 GMT

I personally think it's a really positive step in moving our professions forward. I've always found it a little 'odd' that we can just do a CPD activity that may be totally irrelevant to our work, not take anything from it, and yet tick a box to say we've done it. This is not professional development, it's ticking a box!

I think these proposals work two ways - one, as the OP has said, in helping us achieve more and be better nurses, and two, in ensuring that CPD is relevant and is actually implemented to improve healthcare for animals, or our professional work - which is after all what it should all be about.

Alison, you've touched on a very good point there - that you are already doing all these things - that's great, and therefore I imagine under the proposed new system, you and those like you wouldn't notice any change.. :)

However, I imagine there some out there who may simply watch webinars, do the lunch and learns (like you said, coming away thinking what a waste of time but the sarnies were nice) and use this to fulfil their CPD requirements.. They're not cheating, they're simply doing what is currently required, and I think the new guidance will help them get more from the CPD that they do.

In terms of planning - I think this is great because it's going to enourage training and CPD to be brought into appraisals and other conversations, and help ensure people are moving forward! Ok, I hear all you cynics, but at the end of the day, change has to be driven from somewhere. The nursing profession suffers this dreadful lack of career progression/structure/opportunities - well maybe this is it!

Outcome based? I think that considering how you're going to use your learning is a vital step - like Alison says re the disinfectant - right through to setting up new protocols and changing nursing approaches to patients.. Adding this as a requirment will help to ensure that CPD actually gets to where it needs to - the pracice and the patient.

If anyone wants any help with this, feel free to drop me a line. I actually have a 'taster' course that 'teaches' you reflection on a critical incident, and then I will give you feedback on your work too.

I'm really excited both about this new CPD proposal, and about the vet futures/VN futures stuff...I think it's all starting to slot into place :)

RE: New CPD consultation

molladog — Mon, 18 Jul 2016 15:31:14 GMT

Totally agree..

RE: New CPD consultation

Alison Clare Hickman — Fri, 15 Jul 2016 19:16:09 GMT

My thoughts?

Any vet or vet nurse worth their salt already does mahooosive levels of research, thinking, reflecting, liaising with peers and specialists, picking up tips, hints and guidances - and so effectively learning is achieved on a day to day basis. From the simple, "I need a different floor disinfectant - let's look into this" to "Barry has shown me a different way to do my stitch-ups" and to "I've just enjoyed that on-line seminar about cell morphology - ready to rock in the lab now, yay!"

It's just the recording methodology of this that is the issue here, yes? So. Do I think it needs changing? Well, I feel it is essentially a change for the regulators sake, so they feel warm and fuzzy that they are satisfactorily monitoring our compliance - not a change to make US better at what we're already doing very well, thanks.(Okay, there may be a few individuals not achieving the required standard - but they'd likely be the same ones not recording / learning WHATEVER the operating system).

My reflection: it is good enough as it is. Leave it alone please.

As many have indicated, we do actively reflect when we need to; when we've learned, and then used, something. For the majority of us I think we cherry pick what's relevant to our needs as, in the main, we just don't have the time or money to fritter away on irrelevant training.

What if I have selected some CPD that I find is of no use to me? (Yes, we've all done it - usually when it's free and a lunch provision is involved - hahah!) No point reflecting deeply on irrelevancies, is there! In such a case maybe my reflection would be (politely) "Learning event was not relevant to my needs, despite original thoughts that it might be" - (to be read truthfully as) "well that was an hour of my life I won't get back again, serves me right for being a cheapskate!". Should this CPD be discounted as 'worthless' and therefore not count towards your target? Ooooh - a can of worms! No - all CPD should count, IMHO. It is of course better to have spent your invaluable time on something relevant though - although my stomach thought it VERY appropriate.

Besides, if I pick up one thing alone - I've still picked up something of value.

I've waffled around the subject enough. My reflections are superior. (Takes a bow).

Cheers!

Ali h

RE: New CPD consultation

Selena Carnell — Fri, 15 Jul 2016 17:08:05 GMT

same here, i don't actively plan my CPD, if i see a course that looks interesting or will be useful i will book it, I am lucky to be in a practice that actually promotes and pushes CPD. My last place moaned about the cost of CPD so much and moaned about having to sort cover that no one actively asked for courses, everything was done in my own time or self funded. CPD doesn't come cheap at all! Ive seen vets struggle to do their PDR and keep u with it. I really can't see what was wrong with the current system, only that my vets would suddenly get pulled up and cram all their cod in in to a couple of months! I haven't really seen anyone one pulled up on a lack of cpd.

RE: New CPD consultation

Sal the 1st — Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:01:38 GMT

my major concern - and I know I have already said this elsewhere - with time taken for CPD and further time taken for reflection how much time is going to be left to do the actual job?

I don't actively plan my CPD, I prefer to take whats available yes but also what is relevant ie if I have a case I am nursing that needs me to learn further skills then yes I will research as much as possible to enable me to nurse that case to the best of my ability but as I dont have a crystal ball or the powers of Mystic Meg I don't know what is going to come through the door or when - but does that make any CPD or learning I take onboard as a result of that case less relevant or valuable because it wasn't pre planned?

Are we just trying to complicate things for the sake of complicating things? Are we going to end up with just a few providers of CPD that are 'acceptable' - which is what I fear will happen? -along with the premium prices that go with them

RE: New CPD consultation

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 13 Jul 2016 16:49:23 GMT

Hi Melanie,

I'm following this with interest because we have the 'Claim CPD' service on VetNurse (and VetSurgeon), so obviously it could have an impact.

Seems to me (and what do I know?!) to be a relatively gentle steer in the direction of bringing more structure to CPD. I'm glad to see that unplanned CPD is still recognised as valuable (some people commenting over on VS that some of the best stuff they've learned from is completely unplanned stuff they stumbled upon (like content on VetNurse & VetSurgeon).

Some concerns being raised as to whether or not recording ones' reflections will turn into a bit of a box-ticking exercise. i.e. people will just jot down things they think the regulator wants to read, in case their records are reviewed. What do you think?

Either way, we already include the facility to record reflections on what you've learned on the VetNurse 'Claim CPD' service.