OMG, we're out.

RE: OMG, we're out.

Sal the 1st — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 22:33:03 GMT

no I wasn't saying that you did - let me rephrase it - how can any single individual say that their view of the world is the right one? and that's the reason why every single person who voted was just as important as everybody else and it just happened to be that more people voted out than in. I get it that you are unhappy that it didn't go the way you would have liked but had it gone the other way then there would have been the same result - a huge number of people who were unhappy. Where some voted for complacency others voted for change

RE: OMG, we're out.

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 22:24:28 GMT

I didn't say that my view is the right one Sal, I just answered the question and gave my reasons. like I say, time will tell which camp made the better choice in this shambolic referendum but right now, watching and reading the news, the choice that was made doesn't look like it's leading us to a brighter future.

RE: OMG, we're out.

Sal the 1st — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 22:04:42 GMT

and this is exactly why your vote and the next persons are both valid - whatever the standpoint. You cannot identify with the life of a Grimsby fisherman and they have about the same chance of identifying with your standpoint. We are all different and all live different lives. Ok you want the best future for your offspring but does that mean somebody else isnt allowed to want the same for their offspring just because their views don't fit in with yours?

What makes your view of the world the right one and somebody elses wrong?

RE: OMG, we're out.

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:13:40 GMT

You mean the good chaps who are responsible for the degradation of the oceans? I would but I don't find myself in Grimsby too much.

RE: OMG, we're out.

Sal the 1st — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:17:56 GMT

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]

Take the fishing as one example - thanks to the CFP the fish stocks are recovering. If our fishing industry was left to its own devices they would have stripped the sea bare by now.

[/quote]

Tell that one to the trawler men of Grimsby

RE: OMG, we're out.

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 18:11:13 GMT

I realise that many of these points are highly contentious but that's the problem - people were asked to vote without really being given any facts, just scare stories and lots of lies. That's not democracy.

The way I see it, when you look at the history of Europe and compare it to how we live now, we have been enjoying a bit of a golden era. I know that many of the EU regs are unpopular with some but the majority of them exist to keep people safe and make small sacrifices to the present in order to secure a better future. Take the fishing as one example - thanks to the CFP the fish stocks are recovering. If our fishing industry was left to its own devices they would have stripped the sea bare by now. The overwhelming majority of us living in the UK within the EU have a better quality of life than the majority of other humans. I'm not saying things can't be any better and if people want to gamble their lot then good for them - just don't expect me to be happy about it when my kid's future is what's at stake.

RE: OMG, we're out.

Selena Carnell — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:07:19 GMT

I voted out ( so shoot me now) i am sick of being told I have killed my kids future, whether in or out of the EU i don't see anything that rosy here! Jobs are getting harder to find, at a lower rate of pay, people are barely getting by. Because of EU regulations my husband has to spent more than 50% of his time doing irrelevant paper work, before he can actually do his job, costing an increasing amount of time an money. Im not going in to my reasons why, they are mine and thats the way I voted. Sadly I think the Uk is becoming a laughing stock, a nation of benefit claimers, lazy arses, thinking the world owes them something, there is a huge lack of respect in all aspects, our judicial system is a joke, The results show there is a broken UK, we are falling apart. And the person who called the referendum is jumping ship... surely you think he would have had a plan for an out vote. Alway I'm waffling, but I'm not racist, I'm not what people are labelling out voters. I have south african relatives, germany work colleagues, french friends.

RE: OMG, we're out.

kerryfeehan — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:03:18 GMT

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

thats right nobody really does but at least give it a chance. I don't see things changing too soon or too radically I am really sad that over this weekend some of the people who I have spoken to for years on facebook and have been good friends have become so nasty over this that I have had to ditch them.

[/quote]

I can't believe that the out voters are so surprised that the in voters are so upset.

Guaranteed holiday pay, paid maternity leave, £66m of investment daily, imported goods meeting a measured set of standards, savings on goods and services such as mobile phones and flights, millions of £ of scientific research funding, the Erasmus programme allowing British students to study abroad, cheaper energy bills, cleaner water and air, lower emissions, the (successful) management of fish stocks, better animal welfare, farming subsidies, the benefit to the economy of immigration, free or cheaper healthcare in other EU countries.. The list goes on, and these are not the sorts of things people can just say "oh well, let's just make the best of it" about.

They have been gambled away by half of the country (and the demographic clearly shows who) - and for what? Nobody has a clue!!

On top of this it has added yet more encouragement to the rising tide of nationalism - and that worked out great in the middle of the last century didn't it?

It would have been a whole lot more palatable if the out voters could actually coherently tell us why they voted us out and what better plan they have - but they can't. All we get is 'taking our country back' - from who??

So in answer to the original question, absolutely gutted, saddened, and extremely worried for my little boy's future. And I am probably one of those people that Sal would have unfriended on Facebook because you know what - I don't care whether it's a friend or family member, I will happily say my bit because maybe things would have been different in Europe in the last century if people had spoken up. It's my son's future that's been gambled on, largely by legions of racist old coffin dodgers who have had all the benefits of EU membership and have now potentially soured the wine for the next generation.

All the people saying "we need to move on now and be friends and be happy that democracy had its day" - democratic processes can sometimes have disastrous consequences, so the 'brexit' voters need to confront the disgust of the 'in' voters and ask themselves if it was worth it.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" - Twain

[/quote] I think your disgust should be aimed at David Cameron being as though it was him who gave us the referendum? If we are all really that stupid and clueless about being part of the EU then why the bloody hell did he let us vote on it?

RE: OMG, we're out.

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:50:43 GMT

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]

I can't believe that the out voters are so surprised that the in voters are so upset.

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN - I was a passionate believer in 'out'. When it came to voting day, I voted 'remain' - on the basis that I wouldn't buy anything without knowing what it would cost me, and 'Leave' had not told me the price!

So I guess I'm one of those whose heart says out, but whose head says in.

Got to say, your list has some pretty controversial stuff on it.

£66M daily investment. Sure, and it only cost us 100M.
Farming subsidies. Considered by many to be expensive and wasteful
Lower emissions. Volkswagen, anyone?
Management of fish stocks - at the cost of our fishing industry?
Benefit of immigration - yes, but with it the disadvantages of immigration

I think the reason this vote was so close is that there are actually very strong reasons whichever way you want to argue it. The reasons I wanted to vote out are:

The EU is a remote, undemocratic organisation. Not as undemocratic as portrayed in the media, but undemocratic nonetheless.
Free movement of people is idealistic. Managed or controlled movement of people is essential. And it's not just countries like Britain who complain of having too many immigrants. It's countries like Norway where I understand they have the reverse problem.
Committee decisions and bureaucracy stifle innovation and entrepreneurship.

I DO recognise that the EU has brought benefits, and what I really wanted to see was a strong but losing 'exit' vote that nevertheless put a rocket up the EU's backside.

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]On top of this it has added yet more encouragement to the rising tide of nationalism [/quote]

Yes, watching the football fans on Channel 4 news last night chanting anti-EU, anti-muslim stuff was truly depressing / embarrassing / shaming. And it is why:

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]reading messages telling people to unite is actually quite laughable when it comes from people who have just supported a motion to divide a people at peace.[/quote]

It's not laughable. It's absolutely essential.

RE: OMG, we're out.

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:31:13 GMT

reading messages telling people to unite is actually quite laughable when it comes from people who have just supported a motion to divide a people at peace. Almost as laughable as the amount of out voters who voted out knowing that there was no exit plan, moaning that there is no exit plan.

I am struggling to see what is SO bad about being a part of the EU that it needed to be changed. To date nobody has been able to tell me.

Human beings all over. Always wanting more. Always thinking that the grass is greener on the other side. If it turns out to be, I will eat my words. But right now, with validation given to the opinions of people like Nigel Farage, it certainly doesn't seem like it's going to. Time will tell.

RE: OMG, we're out.

Mason8 — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:10:53 GMT

Wow such bitterness over something that will take 2 years to negotiate. Nothing will change at all over night and no one has said anything about kicking out those that already live and work here. There isn't a system of accountability with the Eu. Unelected with no checks and balances in place because let's face it sometimes government get it wrong. Who in the EU is to account for wasteful spending and corruption. You have very poor countries joining that are still rife with corruption and a different way of conducting business. Somehow it is all suppose to work out and if you have any doubts you are branded a racist or unintelligent. Instead of whinging about what has happened pick your balls off the floor and be a benefit to your country and respect the democratic process so when you are at the negotiating table your country is negotiating from a position of strength. Most countries in the EU didn't really like the British anyways and they gambled with the fact that you would all follow to the slaughter like sheep instead of recognising that there is a problem and taking the views of the public seriously during negotiations. Reform didn't happened as part of the club in all this time do you really think staying in would have changed anything for the better? The EU messed about and during Cameron's negotiations thinking the EU was to great to walk away from and mocked Cameron's efforts. I am from the US and there are uncertain times ahead but with a committed united country anything is possible for the future. The bitterness is helping no one and just dragging you down. The name calling and stereotyping of those that voted leave is childish and hurtful. I for one am proud of your country and the potential for the future. How about a commonwealth free trade agreement with countries that actually like you. There will be pain as part of the process but the crazy thing is what if the UK and EU are better in the long run because of this.

RE: OMG, we're out.

Sal the 1st — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 23:05:07 GMT

instead of taking it out on the leave voters who did have an opinion - just as valid as your own how about you target the almost 28% of eligible voters that either didn't understand enough to vote or didn't vote because they couldn't be bothered? But then again maybe they wouldn't be such an easy target?

RE: OMG, we're out.

Louise B — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:17:47 GMT

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

[/quote]

I can't believe that the out voters are so surprised that the in voters are so upset.

They have been gambled away by half of the country (and the demographic clearly shows who) - and for what? Nobody has a clue!!

On top of this it has added yet more encouragement to the rising tide of nationalism - and that worked out great in the middle of the last century didn't it?

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" - Twain

[/quote]

You have summed it nicely James. Lets add to that what happens to all our EU qualified vets. Last time I looked, they could only practice in the UK because of the parity of qualification EU legislation. Take a look at your EU vets - you could be waving them good bye in the next few months as they are no longer able to practice vet medicine in the UK. Hopefully the RCVS will be able to sort something appropriate to support them still practice. I have been so thoroughly ashamed of leave voters that I felt moved to email my polish vet colleagues to tell them that I didn't vote leave and to apologise for the people of my country that did. The way I feel right now, I would not urinate on a leave voter if they were on fire. I am having to just ignore any 'leave' friends comments on my facebook wall because I just cannot reply in a 'moderate' way right now and, when all is said and done, friendship is friendship across loads of dimensions, not just politics.

RE: OMG, we're out.

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:08:25 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

[/quote]

I can't believe that the out voters are so surprised that the in voters are so upset.

They have been gambled away by half of the country (and the demographic clearly shows who) - and for what? Nobody has a clue!!

On top of this it has added yet more encouragement to the rising tide of nationalism - and that worked out great in the middle of the last century didn't it?

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" - Twain

RE: OMG, we're out.

Sal the 1st — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:48:16 GMT

RE: OMG, we're out.

Sarah Cahill — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:59:53 GMT

I guess nobody knows for sure what will happen....just have to wait and see and hope it's not all bad!

RE: OMG, we're out.

Sal the 1st — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 21:11:56 GMT

IF Boris becomes PM I can also see Gove playing a major part and vice versa, I reckon it could turn into a productive double act - but then again I suppose there is always the possibility that one or both of them have served their purpose and that somebody is about to get thrown under the bus. Indyref2 was inevitable even before Brexit - it was just a matter of time.

RE: OMG, we're out.

kerryfeehan — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 20:32:52 GMT

[quote user="Scottywildcat"]

When Scotland voted to remain within the UK we were told that we would not be forced to leave the EU against our will, this was promised to us along with greater power in our parliament, that promise has been broken, hence why the SNP are now talking about calling for a 2nd independence referendum. They are totally within their rights to do that and if people dont like that well its just too bad, that was one of the things that they should have thought about before deciding wether to vote to leave the EU or remain. Your nationality or your husbands is irrelevant as Scottish independence was never about that, despite all the propaganda. I cant speak for the Northern Irish as their issues are totally different to those of the Scots, however I do know ( having a partner myself from NI ) that their needs and wants are more about their identity whereas most Scots nationalists have no issues on that score!

[/quote] Well like most politicians they have said/promised something they can't deliver! As for leaving the EU it was a democratic vote (see my prev post)

RE: OMG, we're out.

kerryfeehan — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 20:30:01 GMT

people keep saying 'we didn't vote for' but WE are a democracy and WE all voted and the majority wins?! So basically WE did vote to leave the EU as the United Kingdom.

RE: OMG, we're out.

Sarah Cahill — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:47:07 GMT

I think it's because we are now under a Tory rule (which we didn't vote for) and exiting Europe (that we didn't vote for) that is spurring another Indyref, the thought of BoJo as PM terrifies me...!

RE: OMG, we're out.

Scottywildcat — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 21:56:12 GMT

[quote user="kerryfeehan"]

[quote user="Sarah Cahill"]

Really, really disappointed and sad. Especially so as Scotland voted "Remain" but again we get something we didn't vote for.....genuinely worried as to what the repercussions of this exit will be....the only positive I can see is IndyRef2........

[/quote] Didn't Scotland vote to remain in the UK?! They got what the majority of Scotland voted for ( i Sottish referendum) so I do not see why they should even be considering another referendum so soon after the last one?!

[/quote]

hmm...read my earlier post Kerryfeehan.

Slightly off tangent, Im watching The Last Leg on Ch 4 right now, does anyone else think the presenter looks a lot like Arlo?

RE: OMG, we're out.

kerryfeehan — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 21:40:03 GMT

[quote user="Sarah Cahill"]

RE: OMG, we're out.

Keely Young — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 21:23:10 GMT

Personally (and my opinion only!) I am devastated. I have spent all day feeling incredibly uneasy about the whole situation. I have many friends in Scotland working in research (my previous career before pursuing vet nursing) and they are all worried for their jobs - their research (I cannot speak for others I have no experience of) relies heavily on EU funding and over half the workers are non-nationals for whom the future will become uncertain and difficult.

However.....this is the first situation where I have seen people saying "I voted leave because..." and having solid reasons for it. Everyone I have spoken to today has had no reason at all and no understanding of why they voted to leave.

I think people need to quit the "you're an idiot for voting REMAIN/LEAVE (delete as applicable)" and Britain just needs to start putting plans in place. I will feel far easier when we know where we stand

RE: OMG, we're out.

Sal the 1st — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 19:30:24 GMT

[quote user="Scottywildcat"]

To me, it was a decision made based on anti immigration, blaming people from other countries for the woes of the UK is never a good thing imo.

[/quote]

I can promise you I have never been and never will be racist - My decision to vote leave was based purely on what I saw happening around me directly and immigration was only a very very small part of it. I am pro managed immigration and I find it quite appalling that anybody that voted for out is branded a racist. For me the choice became that of carrying on doing what we are doing knowing that it wasn't working but lacking the courage to do anything about it -a state of stagnation born of fear, or taking a risk and see if things can be improved.

I am hoping that the Brexit will now focus people on what does need to be changed and encourage people to look at different ways of doing things. Mine was a postal vote and was made some time before things started turning really nasty but I still wouldn't change it. I found the whole referendum embarrassing, it wasn't informative it was a series of threats, mis information and worst case scenarios from both sides - a very dirty contest and neither side will come out of this lily white.

Interesting to see how many others will now consider their own exit Holland, Denmark, Italy, France - maybe they are just seeing how we get on before taking the plunge themselves?, but for me one of the most telling actions during the referendum was Switzerland who have now permanently suspended their application for admission to the EU.

RE: OMG, we're out.

Scottywildcat — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 18:09:56 GMT