Working while pregnant

Re: Working while pregnant

Caro Laithwaite VN — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:59:14 GMT

I know one nurse who refused to life anything bigger than 5kgs to the stupid extreme. who would do sod all in pretty much anything.. radiography, anaesthetics, cat ward etc, refused to do reception and THEN

Would go off to a well known place and do locum work there doing everything she had refused to do back at her "real" job. And l may add was happy to boast about it on facebook. No nothing happened to her and she finally left.

Re: Working while pregnant

bongo — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:53:59 GMT

i think a lot of it is down to personal preference at the time, I know people who will not even enter prep when pregnant but have known people who still do anaesthetics/ x rays and work up to 2 weeks before due date and have had healthy babies. much like some people can smoke all their lives and never get any health problems (not sure if thats a good comparison but u know what i'm getting at). babies are miscarried and born with congenital problems and some of these have not been exposed to anything dodgy, it just seems to happen for one reason or another.

i think its true to say that you could go as far as saying that any women of child bearing age should not monitor anaesthetics, take x rays, lift animal etc etc but it just doens't happen and probably couldn't happen in practice unless you wanted it to run!

this is a good debate but one I dont think will ever be agreed on as to what should and should not be done, unfortumately vet nursing is not an ideal job for a pregnant lady.

Re: Working while pregnant

Amanda Fleming — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:54:22 GMT

Hi,

just come from a practice with a pregnant nurse, they have been really good to her. There is advice you can get and speaking to the people who supply the iso level readers may be a good start. She had to only be on ops once a week, and kennels once a week as they breathe out so much iso, we did a week of iso monitoring aswell to make sure it'd be ok. Also she wasnt allowed to do small furry anaesthetics/or any using a mask. Obviously running far away from xrays, not lifting anything over the size of a normal cat. Now shes getting to the end of the pregnancy shes been doing alot more admin work- so could take over rotas and that sort of thing also helping on reception. She hasnt cut down the hours but has stopped doing on call and by doing more admin gets to sit down alot more at work which really helps. I think one of the most important things to remember is everyones different so the amount of hours you may beable to work will vary greatly. Hope this helps

Re: Working while pregnant

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 12:44:01 GMT

If you knew the demographics of this practice you'd see that I don't discriminate at all. I love babies!!! I am just stating a fact - that a lot of employers do take it into account - not just in vet nursing.

Re: Working while pregnant

Mac Feather — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:29:44 GMT

I might be alone in thinking this but I think being female sucks alot of the time.

Re: Working while pregnant

Saskia Quinn — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:27:51 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

That's easy to say, but what about the small practice where there aren't enough staff to cover the pregnant ones? The government pays for maternity leave, but not for any 'difficulties' before then. I'd agree totally that the unborn child should come first - but with current legislation it is no wonder that some employers consider the personal circumstances of a woman before choosing who to employ....even if they aren't allowed to saqy they do!

[/quote]

are you trying to tell us something there Gillian???

Re: Working while pregnant

Saskia Quinn — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:25:57 GMT

I continued to work 'normally' with both my pregnancies. The only things I didnt do were lifting heavy dogs and masking patients down.

I continued anaesthetic monitoring and taking x-ray's. Both the anaesthetic & x-ray machine had been recently serviced so I knew they were in perfect working order.

However, if I had thought for a minute that something I was doing could be detrimental to my unborn baby, then I would not have done it.

Both my children were born premature - the earliest at almost 6 weeks. Dont know if there is a link or not though

Re: Working while pregnant

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:19:35 GMT

That's easy to say, but what about the small practice where there aren't enough staff to cover the pregnant ones? The government pays for maternity leave, but not for any 'difficulties' before then. I'd agree totally that the unborn child should come first - but with current legislation it is no wonder that some employers consider the personal circumstances of a woman before choosing who to employ....even if they aren't allowed to saqy they do!

Re: Working while pregnant

Mrs Dot Dot — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:14:15 GMT

If there is any doubt about what you can or can't do / are supposed or not supposed to do / H&S etc WHY risk it? If I was pregnant it would be the most precious thing and I would not risk anything regardless of what other people said... experts or not.

Re: Working while pregnant

Nick Shackleton — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:12:56 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

But if that is the case, you shouldn't let anyone of child bearing age in theatre - because the chances are they would be 1-2 months gone before confirming pregnancy anyway??

[/quote]

What I meant was that as soon as they know then they are banned from theatre. At the end of the day its preventative as all the things that I mentioned can caused damage to unborn children

Re: Working while pregnant

Claire Cameron — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:09:36 GMT

I once worked with a locum vet who said she couldnt afford not to work so she continued working as she would've if she was not pregnant.

She did a lot of ops

The baby was born with a cleft palate which she thought may have had something to do with anaesthetic gas exposure...but who knows?

Who's to say why it happened?

Interesting topic though

Re: Working while pregnant

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:54:13 GMT

But if that is the case, you shouldn't let anyone of child bearing age in theatre - because the chances are they would be 1-2 months gone before confirming pregnancy anyway??

Re: Working while pregnant

Nick Shackleton — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:36:06 GMT

My OH is a human theatre nurse and none of their employees are allowed near theatre for the 1st 4 months of their pregancies due to anaesthetic gases, diathermy, cemement etc...... the 1st 4months is when most of the developement of the baby takes place

Re: Working while pregnant

Practice Manager — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:53:20 GMT

Your right I was a little vague there.

Should an expectant mother become ill and be unable to work, this period is treated as sick leave and she would receive Statutory Sick Pay (SSP) from her employer if entitled. If she is not entitled to SSP she may be able to get Incapacity Benefit (Employment and Support Allowance) from Jobcentreplus. (From HSE website)

However if she is absent due to pregnancy related sickness, or if the employer deems it to higher risk (on health and safety grounds) for the employee to be at work, at anytime in the period beginning with the 4th week before the week her baby is due, her Statutory Maternity Pay or Maternity Allowance must start on the day after she was first absent from work, or on a date requested by the employer for these reasons in this 4 week period.

Regarding anaesthesia quite a lot of the anaesthetic agents do state that pregnant employees should avoid anaesthetic gases on safety grounds. As a practice manager or owner it would not be good for an employee to have pregnancy complications due to none enforcement of a ban on proximity to anaesthetic gases based around COSHH regulations.

Radiography again is an area pregnant mothers should not be allowed near at all. This comes from the local rules on x-rays that every RPA has to provide. Although some RPA’s may say its fine many will tell you that any risk is too much risk where pregnancy and x-rays are concerned.

Carol is quite right pregnancy isn’t an illness, but to an employer it is a risk that needs to be managed. If this means that an employee ‘s workload is reduced to desk related work, then that's what needs to happen, but only in line with what the risk assessment findings are. An expectant mother’s risk assessment is a joint conversation between the employer and employee about how well the employee feels they are coping. Each individual will have different needs and react in a different way to their pregnancy. At some point questions will arise around any pregnant workers ability to do things like out of hours, lone working, lifting, standing for long periods etc. These things will limit some expectant mothers more than others and its and employers job to find out.

Thanks

Ian Thompson

Re: Working while pregnant

Carol Cottrell — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 15:16:32 GMT

Am sure many people have thoughts on this Emma.

Based on my own experience, I worked at PDSA throughout my pregnancy with an excellent pregnancy risk assessment system in place. I had regular meetings with my Senior Vet & much support if needed from my colleagues. I did still work long hours but made sure I had lunch + breaks (unfamiliar to me beforehand!) Many people don't see pregnancy as an illness - I am very much one of them, hence I worked until a week before my due date including radiography & anaesthesia (but no masking small furries). Am guessing there are still some practices out there that don't have risk assessments for everyday practices let alone for pregnancy!

I think at the end of it all, it depends on how the pregnant member of staff feels! If they feel there is a risk with radiography/anaesthesia/long hours etc. they have to speak out & say so, no one can do that for them & see where rotas etc can be swapped about to still maintain smooth running of the clinic!

Re: Working while pregnant

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 14:28:19 GMT

I think you are probably getting confused with another rule - If you are off work for a pregnancy-related illness during the four weeks before your baby is due, your maternity leave and Statutory Maternity Pay (from your employer) or Maternity Allowance (from Jobcentre Plus) will start automatically, no matter what you had agreed with your employer.

Re: Working while pregnant

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 14:27:18 GMT

[quote user="Ian Thompson"]if an expectant mother develops medical issues such as high blood pressure etc then they may find that they are asked to go on maternity leave for their own safety. Sometimes this can be prior to the date that an expectant mother has requested for her maternity leave, unfortunately the employee will have to abide by a practices decision if it is based on a risk assessment that suggests a sufficiently increased risk factor for the employee if they are at work at all.[/quote]

Not strictly true, it depends on time into preganancy. If it is just that they are unable to carry on their work safely, they have to be suspended on full pay until their maternity leave starts.

Re: Working while pregnant

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:56:48 GMT

[quote user="Ian Thompson"]Once an employee announces they are pregnant there are two areas of practice they are no longer allowed near under ANY circumstances - Radiography and Anaesthesia.[/quote]

Why? On what are you basing this 'fact'???

So would a pregnant vet just become a receptionist too? How about a human doctor???

Re: Working while pregnant

Practice Manager — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:59:45 GMT

[quote user="Emma Cooper"]

One of the vets I spoke to said "We really need an overhaul regarding how we look at pregnant veterinary staff"...

[/quote]

Hi Emma

You are quite right about anaesthesia being bad for pregnancy. If an employee becomes pregnant at work an employer is legally obliged to perform a "New and expectant mothers" risk assessment with them. This takes the form of a monthly/weekly meeting at which you and your employer go through the risk form and assess any changes that may have occurred.

One thing to note is that an employer MUST perform a risk assessment immediately upon being advised that an employee is pregnant. There are a number of cases whereby employers have been fined for failure to carry out the initial first risk assessment for 2 or 3 weeks. Also a practice must already have in place a general "New and expectant mothers" risk assessment even if no one is pregnant.

Once an employee announces they are pregnant there are two areas of practice they are no longer allowed near under ANY circumstances - Radiography and Anaesthesia.

Also as the pregnancy progresses there will possibly come a point at which certain jobs become impossible or dangerous to perform. These jobs will have to be given to someone else.

The reality is that towards the end of the pregnancy an expectant mother usually ends up becoming a receptionist as its one of the few "safe" desk job roles within the practice. This however does not mean the risk assessments stop, because if an expectant mother develops medical issues such as high blood pressure etc then they may find that they are asked to go on maternity leave for their own safety. Sometimes this can be prior to the date that an expectant mother has requested for her maternity leave, unfortunately the employee will have to abide by a practices decision if it is based on a risk assessment that suggests a sufficiently increased risk factor for the employee if they are at work at all.

Hope this helps you and if you have any questions let me know.

thanks

Ian Thompson

Practice Manager

Ashfield Veterinary Group

www.ashfieldveterinarygroup.co.uk

Practice Management Consultant

www.PracticeManagementConsultancy.com

Re: Working while pregnant

Dodo bird — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:10:15 GMT

Hi Emma

I worked through both of my pregnancies ,and although the bosses were fantastic ,i got really tired towards the back end and ended up with pre eclampsia with my 1st son. They did let me sit down alot,no lifting, no xrays etc .I chose to work longer so i could be off for longer after their births(this was 12 and 9 yrs ago!!),but on hindsight this was not the smartest move!! Since going back to work they have always been very supportive in me needing time off with the boys. kathy