RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

Helen Freer — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 13:42:40 GMT

As someone hoping to become a RVN, I have read though the arguments for both sides with great interest. As at present a pet owner and outsider, I think I can understand both sides of the coin. Those that do the job and have been employed to nurse animals in a veterinary practise with no requirement or incentive to get a written qualification feel put out when someone comes along and says you cannot be called a veterinary nurse because that is the job they do, it is a bit like saying all the hours of work mean nothing and all of a sudden you are worthless and know no more than the general public. It is not their fault if that now RCVS, people's perceptions and ideas are changing on and the idea of having paper qualifications etc is becoming important in some places, but not even country wide. At some time in history there have probably been similar problems in all the professions as they have moved from just experience to do the job to having a professional organisation, requiring qualifications and a protected title. How the change is managed is important. And until the RCVS ensure there rules are being consistently applied and / or all veterinary nurses are RVN, and there is a recognised method of improving qualification/ experience, there will continue to be issues. As an outside Animal Nurse seems as good a title as any, for those not having the paper qualifications and not undergoing training.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

Scottywildcat — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 10:06:39 GMT

Well maybe Welshy nurse is much more experienced than her RVNs and as she says they are all happy to be managed by her so if they have no massive egos and can show her respect I dont see why people on this forum have a problem with that. A qualification is not the be all and end all, and it doesnt automatically make someone with very little practical experience in a superior position to someone with years of it. Anyway I cant believe this thread is still raging on, to me its just going round and round in circles and Im getting bored with it now so thats my last word on it cheerio

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

PSA-David — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:55:07 GMT

O wow what did I miss!

Firstly It doesn't matter if your getting on fine with out the qualification... show by example.

doing rotas managing the nursing team. is well obviously a head nurses position, with the statement of you actually doing less nursing. how about looking at practice management and loosing the "VN" status.

I cannot comprehend how your nurses would feel being managed with no higher qualifications than stated. I would expect my head nurse to have dips and certs.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

WelshyNurse — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 06:55:34 GMT

Auxiliary nurse is not an option in my opinion. And Head Nurse is fine, as previously stated, only the term 'veterinary nurse' could be protected. So Head Nurse will not be breaking any rules.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

Jenzel — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 23:38:34 GMT

I don't post often but have spent ages reading through all the posts so just wanted to add my view. I am pro protecting the title. I feel that veterinary nursing should be regulated and we should be moving the profession forward. I can see both points of view, however I am passionate about my career and feel that we should not be encouraging new people in to the profession who feel they don't want to do the training as it is unnecessary and they don't want to (that's not a good attitude to have in my opinion). I do feel for people who are experienced and feel they have also worked hard for what they have achieved but find it difficult to understand why you don't support the profession and regulations as a whole. This covers the whole profession, not just one practice and just because it works in one, doesn't mean it works elsewhere. I do believe that if the title was protected, then yes, there should be the opportunity for experienced auxiliary nurses to take an exam and be included.

There are many managers out there in a field that aren't qualified in that specific field but have managerial experience. Maybe veterinary nursing manager would be a good title, which states you are managing a team, not a veterinary nurse yourself? And auxiliary nurse seems appropriate for me for unqualified members of staff. Is that not what unqualified human nurses are called? I certainly would want to know if I was being treated by a registered nurse or auxiliary if I was in hospital. Doesn't mean I would have less respect for either. I do however feel that a Head Nurse should be registered and lead by example, but that doesn't mean that a non qualified nurse could not do a great job.

So to conclude, I feel we should protect the veterinary nursing title and support all the experienced nurses also in the transition, but this should also be regulated by examination etc. I don't understand why there is such hatred and things being taken personal, if we all work together it can work out for everyone and create a good future in the veterinary nursing profession surely.

And my ideas, RVN- registered, Auxiliary nurse- non qualified SVN- student, ANA- nursing assistant, Vet nursing manager- unqualified head nurse (makes sense to me anyway).

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

WelshyNurse — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 21:40:46 GMT

That's not my experience. Every practice I've worked I has had a mixture of qualified and unqualified

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

Ceri Boyd — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 21:27:34 GMT

Just throwing this out there, but in my experience the practices who are happy to have unqualified "nursing staff" are less progressive and seem to be stuck in their ways. Not saying it's like this at every practice but it seems to be a common theme.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

WelshyNurse — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 20:37:41 GMT

I have management experience. I know more about how the practice is run than my colleagues.

Once in this role, I will be doing less nursing.

I dont see an issue with it.

In my practice it's about who my boss thinks can run the practice best in her absence. Thankfully she feels I'm the best person for the job.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

Nick Shackleton — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 20:19:12 GMT

Well as a manager it's a senior role. You lead by example, I'm not saying you are unprofessional If the profession is to move forward and promote the profession this clearly will do the opposite. I always looked up to my head nurses, thinking one day I'll be qualified like them. It just doesn't sit right with me.

With regards to nurses being co-owners. I don't actual have a problem with this. They are a qualified profsessionals and usually have many years of experience as well as management qualifications. Have a good idea of how a practice should run. They always have to co-own with vet. I've known RVNs been in a senior management position and done an amazing job

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 20:03:33 GMT

... And there are practices co-owned by nurses where the vets are effectively managed by the nurse!

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

WelshyNurse — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 19:52:33 GMT

Why not?

I will have 4 RVNs under me. They are all happy for me.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

Nick Shackleton — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 19:41:57 GMT

I disagree. I would not be happy to be managed by an unqualified nurse and am sure there are others.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

WelshyNurse — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 19:26:55 GMT

I should point out that Head Nurse in my practice deals with rotas, ordering, managing the nurses, insurance claims etc. Not really an RVN requirement role.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 19:15:16 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]I'm sorry I don't think an unqualified nurse should be in a head nurse role. It just doesn't sit right with me. [/quote]

Hi Nick, instinctively I think I agree (to the extent that as a pet owner I would probably expect someone titled 'Head Nurse' to hold the RVN qualification). But that's not the way the law of the land or the CoPC is currently written.

Important too to remember that this is all a process of change. You can't just outlaw parts of the English language and criminalise a section of society just for describing themselves in a way that they have been able to do, perfectly legitimately, since the veterinary profession first existed.

You have to make allowances for people to adapt to that change. Provide them with reasons to come along with you, so to speak, or give them reasonable alternatives. I don't get much of a sense that this has yet been done to any significant degree for unqualified nurses. Not altogether surprising, after all, it was only last year that the Royal Charter recognised veterinary nursing as a profession.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

WelshyNurse — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 19:15:11 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

I'm sorry I don't think an unqualified nurse should be in a head nurse role. It just doesn't sit right with me.

[/quote]

Thanfully my employers don't feel the same. I'm one of the most senior nurses so makes sense.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 19:00:34 GMT

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]But AGAIN - how does one know that one is 'getting along just fine?'[/quote]

Well, if you're performing the job your boss wants you to do, and your boss does not require you to get qualified in order to keep your job, and your boss does not offer you any added responsibility or a pay increase for spending all that time getting qualified, then you are 'getting along just fine'.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

Nick Shackleton — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 19:00:02 GMT

I'm sorry I don't think an unqualified nurse should be in a head nurse role. It just doesn't sit right with me.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 18:55:28 GMT

But AGAIN - how does one know that one is 'getting along just fine?'

Without qualification, it is STILL SUBJECTIVE!

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

WelshyNurse — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 18:47:23 GMT

Also, I could be taking the place of someone who really wants to do it.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 18:45:02 GMT

[quote user="WelshyNurse"]

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]As has been said by others, I cannot possibly comprehend why someone wouldn't want to do the training / exams, it really is beyond me.[/quote]

I don't understand how you don't understand (if that makes sense )

I am doing very well, in line for Head Nurse position and on the same, if not more than some RVNs. Gaining the RVN qualification will not benefit me. Why commit myself to a couple of years to do that when I am doing very well without it.[/quote]

Gotta say, I'm with you, for precisely that reason.

I mean, it's just no good banging on at WelshyNurse that she should be qualified just because you think she should; because you think that only by doing so can someone really have the right to include the word nurse in their job title.

If, as she makes clear here, there is just not an incentive for her to commit to two years when she is doing very well without it, then the more important question is why the 'system' is not providing her with a sufficient incentive.

As things stand, there are many practices that allow unqualified staff to perform exactly the same role as qualified ones (i.e. where RVNS are not given the freedom to do Schedule 3).

Until that changes (and perhaps Schedule 3 is broadened), surely you can understand how people who have been trained in-house may not feel the same drive to become qualified as you do.

Of course it works both ways, and I completely understand why someone who has worked hard for their qualification would frown on people who adopt a similar title without sitting the exams.

But as I say again and again and again, it is just NOT fair or reasonable to criticise people like Welshynurse who don't see any advantage in qualifying because where they work, they don't think it is going to advance their career.

In her shoes, I might very well do exactly the same.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

WelshyNurse — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 18:09:13 GMT

[quote user="James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN"]

As has been said by others, I cannot possibly comprehend why someone wouldn't want to do the training / exams, it really is beyond me.

[/quote]

I don't understand how you don't understand (if that makes sense )

If I was on a low salary or had struggled to find work, I would likely feel differently.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

Nick Shackleton — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 18:02:02 GMT

I agree if you wish to have to title do the training

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

James Colver Cert. Ed, RVN — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 17:55:33 GMT

As has been said by others, I cannot possibly comprehend why someone wouldn't want to do the training / exams, it really is beyond me.

BUT it seems that a compromise is being offered here which I think is fair enough.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

WelshyNurse — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 17:44:57 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]think you should instead focus on the words that you CAN claim as your own (at least in practice), and that is Veterinary Nurse.[/quote]

Agreed. I feel the title Animal Nurse does my role justice. I nurse animals, perfect.

RE: RVN Petition - anyone up for being interviewed by BBC London?

PSA-David — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 16:27:15 GMT

someone I know that works at another practice, this has never done any nursing exams but can do anaesthetic monitoring etc. says she's a "receptionist on speed" or a "dogs body" NOT my words. but she has actually agreed. there is a distinction required and if she wanted to be called a nurse then she would happily do the exam.

following this Our title as a RVN could be extended to accommodate... QRVN Qualified registered veterinary nurse... then there is a possibility for the ANA to be called a VN as there is a key distinction.