Anal gland expression

RE: Anal gland expression

melhambis@live.co.uk — Sun, 08 Nov 2015 14:57:39 GMT

Agreed, nurses are highly qualified to carry out such procedures and therefore should be respected as such both by colleagues and the public, sometimes I do feel nurses are made to feel like glorified kennel cleaners. We do a very important job which compliments the veterinary surgeon without a vet we cannot perform our job and without a nurse a vet cannot perform his/her job and I do think this needs re-visiting and a re-think on what nurses are both capable and allowed to do. My nursing team are excellent at their jobs, kind caring compassionate and highly qualified. Anaesthetics is a daily procedure for nurses to assist and monitor, they are the ones who in my mind are responsible for the patient whilst they are on the table and the vet is operating and this in one of the reasons we need to protect the title 'veterinary nurse' nobody other than RVN's should be doing such a role.

RE: Anal gland expression

Sal the 1st — Sat, 07 Nov 2015 19:50:31 GMT

its all a bit laughable really - putting it simply

front page current vn times 'Nurses more than capable of anaesthesia' - so on one hand some people feel that nurses are sufficiently capable of not only maintaining but inducing anaesthesia, ie introducing chemicals into the body which have the potential to kill(and this worries me) but on the other we lack the ability to squeeze a dog's backside when its anal glands need emptying unless supervised or directed - even tho a MOP can carry out the same procedure without training or fear of retribution

RE: Anal gland expression

Kate Dutton — Sat, 07 Nov 2015 14:38:07 GMT

Likewise - hence my asking for clarification. I've advised our vets it may be prudent to write in their patient notes that regular expression by a nurse is advised to cover ourselves from now on.

RE: Anal gland expression

Kate Dutton — Sat, 17 Oct 2015 11:40:01 GMT

But as an act of veterinary surgery we can't teach owners how to do this at home, and the regular expression of AG's has to first be prescribed by a vet - it just adds a further level of frustration, I agree Sal

RE: Anal gland expression

Sal the 1st — Sat, 17 Oct 2015 07:53:56 GMT

sorry wasn't just referring to anal glands.

RE: Anal gland expression

sananbaz — Sat, 17 Oct 2015 07:46:30 GMT

Um, have I missed something? The exert from the Rcvs says that RVNs and supervised students can express internally, and lay staff can externally express if a vet has recommended it necessary. Seems fair enough to me, and allows us to use skills we have been trained in.

It makes me happy because from past history, it seems that when the Rcvs are asked for clarification on schedule 3, they usually come back saying no! (e.g. dental extractions and cat castration). It's a nice change to be told we can do something!!

RE: Anal gland expression

Sal the 1st — Sat, 17 Oct 2015 02:10:44 GMT

like I said more than happy for it to stay that way, but if people were taught what they needed to know and only trained to do what they were allowed to do wouldn't veterinary nursing be an easier world to live in? and wouldn't there be a lot less disappointment/dissatisfaction/frustration expressed by people who feel that they have wasted time and effort being taught skills they are then not allowed to use - or maybe that's a bit to simplistic for some?

RE: Anal gland expression

Kate Dutton — Sat, 17 Oct 2015 01:15:00 GMT

Thank you - it does indeed seem then that they consider EAG's "an act of veterinary surgery".

RE: Anal gland expression

PJ Zurawel — Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:56:16 GMT

A member of our team contacted RCVS over this here is a copy of the response:

Thank you for your enquiry.

We do not have a formal position statement on the expression of anal glands, but we developed the advice below alongside a veterinary surgeon attached to the RCVS and this has been our advice on the issue for some time. We did this because we receive regular enquiries for our opinion on whether groomers / veterinary nurses may legally carry out expression of anal glands.

More recently, we have asked the current Chairman of the RCVS Standards Committee (who is a veterinary surgeon) as well as another small animal vet on the Committee to review the original advice. Both veterinary surgeons agreed with the advice and felt it is appropriate. As such, the following remains our advice on the issue:

External expression of the para-anal sacs (also known as anal glands) is a procedure that may be undertaken by competent owners or lay people (i.e. those who have had the procedure demonstrated and explained to them by a veterinary surgeon). Routine, prophylactic expression of anal glands should only be undertaken on the advice of a veterinary surgeon. If a para-anal sac problem is suspected, the animal should be seen by a veterinary surgeon for confirmation of the diagnosis and advice regarding any necessary treatment. A vet should first identify the dog that might need prophylactic/regular para-anal sac emptying; should then ensure the individual knows what they are doing; then advise the frequency of emptying. For a lay person to forcefully squeeze anal sacs that don’t actually need emptying could be inappropriate.

Internal expression of the para-anal sacs per rectum amounts to the practise of veterinary surgery. This means that it may only be undertaken by veterinary surgeons or student/registered veterinary nurses working under the direction of their veterinary surgeon employer.

I would also encourage you to read our guidance on delegation to veterinary nurses. This outlines the conditions for the Schedule 3 exemption.

RE: Anal gland expression

Yvette Boffey — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:25:52 GMT

Hi :)

This came up in our work also and one of the other nurses asked the RCVS about this and the reply they got from them was that student nurses and registered vet nurses can internally express glands under the supervision of a veterinary surgeon.

RE: Anal gland expression

Julie — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:19:56 GMT

I'm attending a grooming course at the moment and although the syllabus has eag's and ear plucking in it we have been told that the RVC are now advising against groomers doing the procedures.The lecturer has said that this is something that has changed recently.

I've also asked the RVC for clarification for a groomer that I know but as yet no one has answered the question.

RE: Anal gland expression

Kim Rathbone — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 12:10:41 GMT

I think the Vets are really started to allow their nurses to do Schedule 3 and running nurse clinics as it really does free up time for them to do other appointment instead. This works really well where I work and unless a client is booked in for a booster and they ask the vet to express anal glands whilst they are there, they are booked in for an appointment with a nurse. I have had a few however that I have needed to bring to the vets attention because they are in pain, feel swollen, have an abcess or I can feel a lump, but the vets don't mind coming to see them to explain. This for me can be hard though, because I then have to explain they need to vet, they only bring money for the Anal glands to be done and then they have to come back the next day. But this is when a client rings saying there dog is itching and biting their bum, reception will book them for a nurse as anal gland expression rather than thinking hmmmm wonder if this could be something else. Apart from that though the regulars love seeing a nurse over a vet, they believe we take more time when we are doing this so they are getting value for money. It is also the same price if the nurse does or the vet does it.

I do think it would be crazy if they stopped Nursing staff from doing this, yes it is not the best part of the job I agree, especially when it squirts in your hair!!! But i have never had a client who wants to see a vet. And I do think being registered is still important in terms of the profession, but let's not go over board with what we can and can't do with not only Nurses but are Lay staff as well, we are capable people and we get full training, let's not take away are passion to go to work. I can understand why nurses are starting to say it is pointless being qualified though.

RE: Anal gland expression

molladog — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:20:49 GMT

Ha ha yes, no problem avoiding emptying anal glands if a vet thinks they should be doing it ! I do agree though....what is the point of being qualified if we cant even be trusted to do things like this ?

RE: Anal gland expression

Kate Dutton — Sat, 10 Oct 2015 14:43:06 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

If this is the case then by the same token maybe we shouldn't be cleaning ears or getting involved with cleaning teeth either? - makes me wonder why the hell I went to the expense and trouble of bothering to qualify sometimes.

[/quote]

Or even use of a rectal thermometer, surely?!

Does anyone have faster access to an ear at the RCVS than my 10 days (so far...)?

RE: Anal gland expression

Sal the 1st — Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:33:26 GMT

yes I have come across this too - from what is being said external is ok but internal is an act of veterinary surgery because it enters a body cavity(but yet again is this just somebody putting their own interpretation on things as I have yet to see anything from the RCVS ). If this is the case then by the same token maybe we shouldn't be cleaning ears or getting involved with cleaning teeth either? - makes me wonder why the hell I went to the expense and trouble of bothering to qualify sometimes. But hey I am not going to fight anybody to empty anal glands, I am quite happy for that to remain a VS preserve.

RE: Anal gland expression

Ailsa Main — Sat, 10 Oct 2015 11:14:30 GMT

I don't know if it's an act of veterinary surgery, but I know that many groomers do it and lots of owners do it too. I don't really see how it could be considered an act of veterinary surgery really- there's no entry into a body cavity, no drugs involved and the skill of doing it isn't all that complicated. Although I guess it's best to see what the RCVS have to say :)