dream job turned nightmare!

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Bear3 — Thu, 07 May 2015 12:00:22 GMT

Hi Selena, yes they did breach employment law by hiring someone less than 6 months after Id been taken voluntary redundancy, but what can I do about it, as I said earlier I dont have the money to take them to court for anything. And your right, I do expect more than a basic vca position ( if it mostly involves cleaning ) partly because the three practices Iv worked in so far did not have a qualified VN so I got to do the jobs a nurse would do and partly because I didnt work hard at school and college just to end up working as a cleaner.

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Leggy — Wed, 06 May 2015 21:17:57 GMT

Don't give up xxx

I love having a VCA to help me especially on busy/stressful days.

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Selena Carnell — Wed, 06 May 2015 18:56:11 GMT

Did't think they could fill a position that had been made redundant until 6 months had passed. in which case they could be in breach of employment law. If they are doing something wrong - report them. You may need to look at your interview technique, as even from these posts you come across as expecting a lot more than basic vca position, sadly veterinary nursing is 80% cleaning!

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Sal the 1st — Sun, 03 May 2015 15:48:02 GMT

[quote user="Bear3"]do you not assist in the theatre? [/quote] - rarely because this is done by the two VCAs I work with because of the shifts we work.

[quote user="Bear3"]Its amazing because some of the things I saw going on in there if I decided to talk about it I could really do some damage to their reputation[/quote]

and the choice is there - either report it where it needs to be reported or say nothing more anywhere - otherwise others reading this may think twice about giving you a chance as well

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Bear3 — Sun, 03 May 2015 14:50:59 GMT

Thanks Sal, no disrespect intended but if you are a qualified nurse and your duties mainly consist of cleaning and kennel work then I think your getting a raw deal ( do you not assist in the theatre? ) I dont know where you work but if your happy with what you do then thats great, all I know is I wouldnt be satisfied with that but we're all different. If I took a job where my duties were outlined in my job description as being cleaning and kennel work and feeding the animals then I would do that job and not complain as I knew from the start what my role would be. But I wouldnt accept a job like that as Im easily bored! :)

Regarding the reference, I did do what you mentioned, got a friend to call, thats why I found out exactly what was said about me, trouble is I cant afford to go down the legal route with them and I dont think I can be bothered with the hassle either. Not only that but it would be my word against theirs, I wouldnt stand a chance of proving they were giving me an unfair reference. Considering I only worked there for six months I do think it may be best if I just leave them off the CV. I did get experience working with the anaesthetic machine etc but its not like it was a huge amount anyway, certainly not enough for me to say Im competent. Its amazing because some of the things I saw going on in there if I decided to talk about it I could really do some damage to their reputation, but I cant say anything in case of legal comebacks, yet they can give me a bad reference and harm my chances of future employment! Life aint fair :(

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Sal the 1st — Sun, 03 May 2015 13:25:55 GMT

[quote user="Bear3"]So Im sure you will understand when I say I didnt go go college for 2 years just to work as little more than a cleaner and kennel maid.[/quote]

I am a qualified nurse - and that's a pretty good description of the biggest part of my job. Maybe I am just satisfied with less? or maybe I am just satisfied that what I am allowed to do I will do to the best of my ability. I might not have many fancy further qualifications in veterinary nursing, I might not work for a referral centre, I might not be working with state of the art equipment or with specialist vets but any animal in my kennels is cared for as if it was my own, - its as comfortable as I can make it and comforted when it needs it, it is clean, it is fed, it is medicated when needed - it is cared for - and that to me is what nursing is all about whether you are a nurse or a VCA or whatever other title is used these days. My priority is my patient (and that extends to keeping the building in which it is housed clean)- and I realised a long time ago that might fly in the face of 'modern' nursing but that's just me. And when I am not doing any of that ? - well then you can find me out on reception answering the phone and dealing with joe public.

But getting back to the CV issue - yes declare you worked there as if you have a gap in your CV it doesnt look particularly good and if you feel that they are endangering your chances of getting another job then there are things you can do.

If its a verbal reference that is causing problems you could ask a 'potential employer' (aka friend) to call the practice for a reference and record the call, or request a written reference and armed with these if they are untrue or harmful visit a lawyer or CAB.

If there was anybody in the practice that you particularly got on well with you could also ask them if they would be prepared to write you a reference or use them as a point of contact.

Either way I hope you can get some resolution to this - but please don't think as a VCA you are undervalued as this is not the case, everybody plays an important part in keeping a practice running whatever their role

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Bear3 — Sun, 03 May 2015 12:27:42 GMT

Thanks everyone for your replies, I understand that it must be annoying to spend 2 years at college studying and getting qualified only to hear of an unqualified person getting to do some of the same things as you. I do have an HND in Animal Care of which nursing was one of the modules although I know its not the same by far, but I do have a qualification which shows I have also studied for 2 years and have some theoretical knowledge. So Im sure you will understand when I say I didnt go go college for 2 years just to work as little more than a cleaner and kennel maid. I dont expect to do all of the same duties as the VN, wouldnt like to even be asked, but I still expect to be allowed to do a bit more than cleaning and feeding patients. As for monitoring the anaesthetics, I agree that the theory behind it is important, nothing to stop me from buying a book and reading up about it though, also as the guidelines state that a VN is preferred for monitoring but not essential, and the induction and maintenance should only ever be done by a vet, then having a VCA monitor, however annoying it may be to you all, is not breaking the law. Some people like myself cant afford to go back to college full time to get qualified, nor can they get a job in a training practice, so being a VCA is all they get, are you really saying that they should just accept and take pride in being asked to do nothing but clean all day long? Even the receptionist does a more complicated job than that!

Anyway, I originally posted asking for advice on what to do about my CV, and the fact Im getting a bad reference etc, it wasnt really meant to be a debate on the role of the VCA compared to the VN, maybe it was wrong the practices I worked in letting me do the same duties as a VN , but it happened, it still goes on ( albeit on a much smaller scale ) and thats a fact I cant change. I wish I could get qualified, especially as Id never be able to accept a role as a glorified cleaner but there just seems to be no way to do it, its so frustrating and I really do feel like just giving up even though my whole life Iv wanted to work with animals and have done, and am at my happiest when working in a vet practice ( well, until the last job )

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Sal the 1st — Sun, 03 May 2015 10:42:10 GMT

not making any comment on whether I agree or not but some practices don't have even 1 qualified nurse - there is no absolute legal requirement for this to be the case, and there is no absolute requirement in the case of monitoring an anaesthetic that this should be done by a qualified nurse - in fact SPVS among others were developing their own qualification for this. I don't see this changing any time soon because there are plenty of practices out there that will not accept it until veterinary nurse training is producing qualified nurses more in line with what they actually want.So in protecting a title what is actually being protected?

If you are a qualified nurse being asked to train a VCA to monitor an anaesthetic ,knowing that the person you are training will be monitoring anaesthetics whether you happen to agree with it or not, and you refuse - who will you be letting down? Will you be letting down other qualified nurses? will you be letting down the practice that has asked and trusted you to do this? Will you be letting down the VCA who will have to monitor the anaesthetic with or without the training you have decided not to give or will you ultimately be letting down the animal on the end of the circuit undergoing surgery? Difficult one isn't it?

As the VCA was not working at the same practice as the qualified nurse and is not a an SVN surely the responsibility for anything that might go wrong as a result of this would be the responsibility of the veterinary surgeon employing the VCA and not the qualified nurse? So to me that agument doesn't wash.

http://www.caw.ac.uk/courses/veterinary-care/level-2-certificate-in-assisting-veterinary-surgeons-in-the-monitoring-of-animal-patients-under-anaesthesia-and-sedation-course/

http://www.spvs.org.uk/content/monitoring-anaesthesia-qualification-lay-staff

I do have some sympathy for the VCA in this.

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Heather Bacon — Sun, 03 May 2015 08:50:14 GMT

Hi Bear

It sounds like you have had a horrible time. VCA/RVN or not no one deserves to be working in a horrible environment with staff putting you down etc. So it sounds like it was a good move to leave.

I think that if you have been delegated tasks or the RVN knows you are doing something you shouldn't, if something went wrong then it is the RVN or vet who could be held accountable (I think....someone correct me if I am wrong). That is another reason why they may have been reluctant to teach you.

I am an SVN near to finishing my course, and a lot of blood sweat and tears has gone into my training, as well as the future CPD requirements, I believe we work very hard to be called an RVN. I also wouldn't want to be getting myself into trouble by getting a VCA to do tasks they aren't meant to be doing.

Our VCA/ANA love their jobs, and take pride in caring for our patients. We all probably do the same amount of cleaning no matter what our title. An old vets I did work experience at many years ago was just a vet and a receptionist, with the receptionist also doing all the VN duties with no background knowledge, just because it happened doesn't mean it was right.

With regards to the bad reference, I did not think they could give you a bad one? Only XXX worked here from this date to this date.

Good luck! xxx

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Anneke Kuipers — Sat, 02 May 2015 23:53:48 GMT

Hi Bear

i'm really sorry you're having such a rough time! I can imagine it is very disheartening that you were promised one thing and in the end don't get the opportunity to do those things. But don't give up! There are places out there that do care about their staff and give the opportunity to learn. But yes, we've all started at the (boring) bottom and worked very hard to be able to call ourselfs RVN's and do all the duties that come with it and hopefully one day you'll be one of those too! This does mean that until you are a student VN you're not supposed to do a lot of things yet other than kennel duties, restraining and cleaning I'm afraid. But like I said, don't give up!! :)

With regards to the bad references, have a look here: https://www.gov.uk/work-reference

Good luck and I hope it works it's way out for you!

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Julie-Anne Wilson — Sat, 02 May 2015 21:11:43 GMT

I agree with all the above statements.

Take pride in the job you have rather than complaining about not doing a job you're not trained to do. As stated above, just because practices use VCAs instead of nurses doesn't mean they should.

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Jo Oakden — Sat, 02 May 2015 20:26:48 GMT

I completely agree with the comments made above. It is always poor when staff have been treated in a bad way and made to feel like they have toleave. This should never happen in any job.

But you have to understand why an RVN is defending their job. The profession has just become regulated, RVN's take pride in their role and have worked for AT LEAST 2 years doing exams and further training - some have graduated from university to become an RVN.

There are different roles withing nursing in the human medical world, so why shouldnt there be in the animal medical world if we want our standards aligned with human medicine. In hospitals auxillaries take pride in their roles, they care directly for patients, making sure they are fed/watered/checked on/given company and looking after their needs. Auxillaries (ANA/VCA) do the same in animal medicine. What you are expecting for your role is the equivalent to an RVN thinking they should carry out the vets role (in some cases there are RVNS that would be more competant, as I am sure some auxillaries would too). But that would be against the law!

For my first 2 years in practice I felt like a glorified cleaner, but I am now OCD about cleanng it is a HUGE part of out job for ALL levels of staff.

Some practices use VCAs as VNs as they are really small, limited facilites or struggle to find a nurse. It doesnt mean it is right, and VCAs should automaticlly have the right to do RVN tasks. RVN's have fought for a long time to get the title protected, so dont expect it to be given up so easily.

So instead of complaining about not being able to do an RVN's job, take pride in the VCA role, which is just as important in different ways. And if you want to train as an RVN prove to your practice that you work hard, carry out your job role and have a drive to learn. They can put you through the training.

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Nicola Smith — Sat, 02 May 2015 20:05:28 GMT

The issue we have had is vcas who, though it is explained at interview, need to take a step back from what they were previously allowed to. Our practice policy is that only rvns monitor ga, and students only do under supervision when done theory at college. This is something we promote to our clients, and anaesthesia is becoming more complicated with different inhalation, induction and premed combinations all affecting patients in different ways, along with advanced monitoring such as capnography - even as rvns we are having to keep up to date with all the changes and even with our theoretical knowledge optimal anaesthesia can still be challenging. We have had vcas come in refusing to take a step back and not realising the work done in kennels in day to day care is vitally important. My college iv relayed a story to me of someone who had been in practice for many years before training. When learning about ga and theatre practice she left practice as she was so traumatised at the thought of what she had been doing with no knowledge and when she understood the responsibility she couldnt face it!! Veterinary practice is changing at a fast rate and imo requires qualified staff to maximise patient care and safety, whilst also working within the law. The new rcvs video sums things up nicely imo.

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Steph Worsley — Sat, 02 May 2015 20:01:07 GMT

Hi.

It's never nice when you are made to feel like that, and that you weren't given the support you require.

I do have to say though that I do believe that VCA's should not be performing a VN's job. Not that their role is any less important than the VN BUT the VN has gone through a hell of a lot of theory training to understand why they are doing what they are doing.

It's not just because the law has changed that people's views have they have been progressively changing over the last 18 years that I have had anything to do with veterinary practice, and this is a good thing. I'm sorry but if you went into hospital would you be happy with an auxillary administering your medication/performing the duties a registered nurse should be doing?

I have always been a firm believer in teaching any of our auxillaries the reasons behind why I am doing something or why some of our patients have been in so they can get more out of their job (and hopefully encourage them to carry on and train as a VN), BUT I wont teach them how to perform schedule 3 tasks as that is against the law and has been for a long time.

I have worked with some FAB Auxillaries who I know are more than competent in carrying out the tasks a VN does, however like I said I wouldn't be asking them to do it.

If I was to get a CV from an experienced VCA for a qualified VN's job then unfortunately it would get a refusal from me as they cannot carry out the tasks required, if it was for an SVN job then I would more than happily accept it and go ahead and interview them.

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Lulabell23 — Sat, 02 May 2015 17:19:35 GMT

Its all very well getting the training whilst on the job but i feel that the theory you learn at college is just as if not more important. I struggle to believe that there is a veterinary practice that has the staff and time to really fully explain, teach and train someone on anaesthetics, x rays etc to the same standard a student VN gets whilst either on the diploma or degree course Ive just started learning the theory about anaesthetics at college and there is so much to learn which you can't possibly do by just learning on the job I feel

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Bear3 — Sat, 02 May 2015 16:46:30 GMT

Hi, when I was offered the job I was told cleaning would be an important part of it, of course I already knew that and happily accepted that, however I have to disagree with you when you say a VCA is primarily a kennel and cleaning role, perhaps thats the case in practices that have VNs employed there but this practice had no VNs, neither did the places I worked in before, so the VCA does the duties of a nurse! This is what I was told I would be doing at my job interview and also when I accepted the job! That is why they said they would give me training in the things I did not have experience in like the gas machine, x ray etc. I would not say I am competent in these things, how could I be when I never received the training? To be honest Im a bit disappointed with your answer as you seem to have the attitude of the VN who refused to train me - Im just a humble VCA who should be happy to spend all day cleaning and feeding and not much else, and how dare I get the chance to do things that only a qualified nurse should do! Ten years ago vets were more than happy to take on someone and train them in house, a person didnt have to be qualified and registered to be a good nurse, but because of the laws now its all changed. But there are still small rural practices out there where it is one or two vets and one assistant who is not a qualified and registered nurse but still has the responsibilities and duties of one! Are you saying that if you received a CV from someone like that you would instantly disregard it?

RE: dream job turned nightmare!

Nicola Smith — Sat, 02 May 2015 15:09:02 GMT

It is very sad what has happened but in my opinion the role of a vca is primarily a kennel and cleaning role, and even as an rvn there is still cleaning to do - hygiene is paramount in any vets therefore is an important part of the job. You can get a placement for an apprentice type position at any age its just funding is more difficult but many practices will fund this anyway. I think you need to try and find out what the reference is saying? If you miss this off your cv will look very suspicious. From my point of view be careful with your cv - if i receive a cv from a vca saying they can monitor ga and do rvn tasks they go straight in the bin - we have had too many people thinking they know the job of an rvn and are quite frankly dangerous - unconsciously incompetent is the term i would use - and therefore unwilling to learn. Any trainee nurse position you need to go in at the bottom and work your way up as you display competency in tasks - and initially that will be mainly cleaning and kennel tasks.