Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Sal the 1st — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 10:34:46 GMT

[quote user="jojofruits"] I hope its a step towards the RCVS actually addressing the issue of lay people nursing.[/quote]

Unfortunately for that to happen the vets that employ them need to be fully agreeable - and I can't see that happening. Look how long the rule that only qualified nurses monitor anaesthetics lasted, and that was abandoned as a result of veterinary surgeons because it was poorly thought out and unworkable. Decisions that are made need to be workable and palatable to all the people they concern - when that fails you get resistance, and you can't just ignore a group of people or trample them underfoot just because they don't happen to agree on a few points because that causes resentment and the likelihood in future that they will resist ANY decision that is being made on their behalf. If everybody was being regulated I wouldn't have issue with this but until that time .... Listed nurses have been treated shabbily over this

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

jojofruits — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 09:24:16 GMT

I welcome the RVN status

juss sayin ;)

Any step towards real recognition of our profession and I'm all over it! I hope its a step towards the RCVS actually addressing the issue of lay people nursing.. something that I find , frankly, insulting.. even though a lot of those who do this that I have met are very lovely people! .. I mean.. why else did I bother to do all my training and keep up with my CPD over the last 20 years unless its somehow recognised.

there is a LOT of catching up and work to do here.. hopefully this is a big step towards it

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Sammyannieantha — Thu, 01 Jan 2015 14:01:48 GMT

I don't understand at all why when your qualified why would you not want to be an RVN? You SHOULD be responsible for your own actions and on the register for all to see. A human nurse can't say I don't want to be an RN when qualified or even a vet for that matter. ..I'm so confused at what the problem actually is. If you don't want to be on the register fine but rules should be rules and surely this is the RCVS' s way of moving forward with the profession? Give it a chance I say!

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Sal the 1st — Thu, 01 Jan 2015 01:49:14 GMT

yes that was one of my reasons for staying listed rather than regulated - if the RCVS can ignore the listed nurses over something this important what else/who else will they ignore in future? I have tried so many times with various people in the RCVS /VN council over a number of years and on the rare occasions they have even bothered to reply I have come to the conclusion that they just don't give a damn - and that makes me angry and that makes me defensive. There has been no consultation of the listed nurses and we are just expected to go along with it.

Maybe the RCVS/VN council would like to comment on this? - but then again probably not

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

myrkk — Wed, 31 Dec 2014 19:20:08 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]But I do feel very strongly that if people disagree with the change, or fear it, their concerns need to be addressed.[/quote]

The problem being that when I raised my concerns with the RCVS they completely ignored them, brushing them aside with a "look at the website". Where does that instill faith from me in them to govern my profession.

I have no problem with change at all, in fact I am very proactive in my nursing career and have helped the practice I have been working in move forward in a few areas, however, I am not happy with being ridden roughshod over. Or to put it another way, and I don't mean this in any way insultingly to anyone, I am not a sheep, I look at the information, consider the information and make an informed decision and choice that is correct for me at that point in time.

As an aside, I have no real issue with becoming an RVN since the VDS issue was sorted out, my main reason for not becoming an RVN once that issue was addressed was purely because I was irritated with the RCVS and there was no reason to change for me.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 11:48:46 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

[quote user="JaneRVN"]I joined where people gave meds without consent and this was deemed apprriate as they were 'experienced'. No thought to patient outcome or care responsibility, just the easiest option at the time.[/quote]

and I don't think that is fair comment either[/quote]

[quote user="JaneRVN"]I don't see the comment you highlighted as unfair - it's the truth. It wasn't directed at any set of people in particular, if you chose to take it as a slight that's for you to look at.[/quote]

Could we try and keep things on a more friendly footing please

In particular, Jane, this:

[quote user="JaneRVN"]if you chose to take it as a slight that's for you to look at[/quote]

I've been moderating forums for nearly 15 years now, and I think the responsibility for making sure that ones words are read as intended rests more with the author than the reader. So it's as much for you to look at whether your words might be read as a slight as it is for Sal not to read slight into something where none was intended.

I also think that 'that's for you to look at' sounds a bit patronising.

As regards the point being discussed. We all have to be careful not to stereotype, but I guess there is some truth to the idea that a nurse that has trained 100% on the job is perhaps more likely to have better developed practical skills.

There was a similar debate in my profession when I was a pilot. There were those people who went on highly intensive, highly academic flying courses, and those of us (I was one), who went and just flew their backsides off in places like America. You can see the parallels. Needless to say, I argued that the practical nature of my route was vastly superior to the more academic pathway, but the reality is not so clear cut. Good pilots (and bad ones) came via every route ...

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Sal the 1st — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 19:51:28 GMT

at least 3 of my very close friends are in academia/teaching so no slight intended - as to thinking my viewpoint is greater than anybody elses ... no I don't see that, merely trying to get my point across . You cannot see a valid argument for my standpoint and I am failing to see one for yours and that is just the way it is. Perhaps if my concerns were considered rather than ignored I wouldn't have to be quite so vociferous.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

JaneRVN — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:02:44 GMT

I don't see the comment you highlighted as unfair - it's the truth. It wasn't directed at any set of people in particular, if you chose to take it as a slight that's for you to look at.

i object to the slight on those in academia - in this and previous posts you seem to think that rates people's viewpoint as lower than yours. It is not.

if you carry out all work and CPD within the guidelines I still cannot see a valid argument for not wishing to become an RVN and use your voice to promote our role in patient care.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Sal the 1st — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 11:33:50 GMT

Which is all very well Jane but I am working in practice not teaching/academia and so many of theses decisions which are not to everyone's liking are being made by people who aren't working in practice every single day and have a very different view.

and I don't think that is fair comment either - that has never happened anywhere I have worked - even in the so called bad old days. I have however seen nurses quite recently who cannot recognise that increased comfort for a patient might be as simple as taking it out for a pee.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

JaneRVN — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 20:01:08 GMT

Thank you Ems.

We need to get to an RCVN on small steps. So far, so good. We are too small at the moment to do an RCVN but this will change. The register has been around for 10 years. Enough time for people decide if they want to stand up for the work they do or not.

We move forward for the greater good of our patients and to be included equally as part of the care team. Decisions will not be to everyone's liking but I would rather that than the profession I joined where people gave meds without consent and this was deemed apprriate as they were 'experienced'. No thought to patient outcome or care responsibility, just the easiest option at the time.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Ems — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 19:29:01 GMT

I totally agree with JaneRVN on this, I just don't see the big problem - if everyone is as good a nurse as they say they are then they don't have anything to worry about!

Don't get me wrong, I get everyone's concerns about change and the possibility of standing against a VS, but as Arlo stated, this is hardly common. I think it will help with standards in the long run!

Change is always scary and personally I'm not a fan of the RCVS and would prefer a seperate nursing body; but for now I'm just going to see how things pan out and I'm glad we're being seen as a profession.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:21:44 GMT

[quote user="JaneRVN"]i am concerned about the reluctance to accept change.[/quote]

Hopefully tempered by an understanding that the responsibility for ensuring that everyone is on board (hate that phrase) with change lies with those who are seeking to impose change.

Also that just because you don't share the same fear of change as the next person, doesn't make their fear any less valid.

In other words, I agree with:

[quote user="JaneRVN"]The battle is for a move in standards of patient care, and to regulate the nurses role on patient care.

- Not an individual vendetta against certain nurses, or category of nurses.[/quote]

But I do feel very strongly that if people disagree with the change, or fear it, their concerns need to be addressed.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 18:13:32 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]nope but they might just decide to drop off the register[/quote]

And is that a problem, if they are able to continue doing their job? (serious question, and not a rhetorical one).

Your comment suggests maybe not:

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]So I wouldnt be able to call myself a veterinary nurse? so what - it wouldnt be the be all to end all. I wouldn't be able to do schedule 3? - big deal I don't anyway where I am now and that isnt the be all to end all either. The clients in my current practice I doubt they would even notice. I have never worn a badge, I wear the same uniform as everybody else (which thankfully isn't green) and have not made a big deal over being qualified and what I am called. I would like to think they recognise me for the work I do rather than a fancy title that the average client doesn't even understand.[/quote]

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]join the thousands of unqualified nursing staff that also inhabit veterinary practices (ie the people that the RCVS don't even recognise , have ignored and don't regulate)[/quote]

I'm not sure its fair to say the RCVS has ignored unqualified nursing staff. They just don't have any jurisdiction over them.

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]many vets employ unqualified staff because there are no legal requirements that your nursing staff have to be qualified. Do I see that changing anytime soon? No because the RCVS would have a mutiny on their hands and they know it. There are still practices out there where a qualified nurse has never set foot.[/quote]

Personally, I think it will change. Any time soon? I agree probably not, because apart from the economics of it, there aren't enough nurses. But (forgive cliche), this is a journey. I think the veterinary nursing profession has come a long way since I started this site. I would never have guessed back then that you'd be recognised as a profession. Next stop, I guess, is protection of title.

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]The CAA are judging your competency on 'stick time' you are showing that you are capable practically. The RCVS are judging competency in what is essentially a very practical occupation by how many hours you have clocked up by going to a 'lunch and learn' where the sandwiches were good/bad/indifferent but where you may have learnt very little or attendance at a congress where the social attendance was far more important than actually attending any lectures[/quote]

Well, whether or not the current system of judging competence is the best way of doing things is another discussion altogether. Instinctively, I agree with you that judging currency/competency on whether or not you had an indifferent sandwich at BVNA Congress is not perhaps the most accurate measure! But I'm sure things will develop from the current system, and I suppose the logical next step is better control over the quality of CPD (ie accredited CPD).

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

JaneRVN — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 17:45:52 GMT

The battle is for a move in standards of patient care, and to regulate the nurses role on patient care.

- Not an individual vendetta against certain nurses, or category of nurses.

i am concerned about the reluctance to accept change. As part of a medical profession everything will change. New improvements made and we should adapt our working practices to incorporate the best care we can give.

if you are already doing CPD and keeping to that requirement what is the issue with being an RVN?

doctors went through this in 1858 - check my blog coming out soon vetsonline nurse blog

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Teri-Ann Baldwin — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 13:21:06 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]RCVS are judging competency in what is essentially a very practical occupation by how many hours you have clocked up by going to a 'lunch and learn' where the sandwiches were good/bad/indifferent but where you may have learnt very little or attendance at a congress where the social attendance was far more important than actually attending any lectures[/quote]

100% Agree. You can sit with a webinar on mute while cooking your dinner and that counts as an hours CPD (NOT that I do that) and that shows you are a competent nurse?! Absolutely ridiculous, I'd rather be assessed on the work I do in practice which I know 100% is of an extremely high standard and I push myself to provide that care.
ALSO if they want their RVNs/LVNs to do CPD maybe they should make a nice little rule where it isn't so damned expensive! £300 for 8 hours of sitting in a lecture theatre learning very little because the lecturer went completely off topic and decided to talk about veterinary surgical techniques and no aftercare and nursing of the patient (which was the supposed topic).. lucky me!!

[quote user="Sal the 1st"] unqualified nursing staff that also inhabit veterinary practices (ie the people that the RCVS don't even recognise , have ignored and don't regulate) they might continue to nurse that way - because there is absolutely nothing in place to stop them, many vets employ unqualified staff because there are no legal requirements that your nursing staff have to be qualified. Do I see that changing anytime soon? No because the RCVS would have a mutiny on their hands and they know it. There are still practices out there where a qualified nurse has never set foot.[/quote]

Again 300% agree on this. I worked in a practice where there were unqualified, untrained lay people monitoring anaesthetics and working as 'veterinary nursing assistants' some even calling themselves veterinary nurses. They are ignored by the RCVS because they do not exist. In this circumstance what would you rather? Jo Bloggs off of the street monitoring your bitch spay or Sal who is qualified yet isn't on the register? I know who I'd choose.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Sal the 1st — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 11:12:20 GMT

nope but they might just decide to drop off the register and join the thousands of unqualified nursing staff that also inhabit veterinary practices (ie the people that the RCVS don't even recognise , have ignored and don't regulate) they might continue to nurse that way - because there is absolutely nothing in place to stop them, many vets employ unqualified staff because there are no legal requirements that your nursing staff have to be qualified. Do I see that changing anytime soon? No because the RCVS would have a mutiny on their hands and they know it. There are still practices out there where a qualified nurse has never set foot.

So I wouldnt be able to call myself a veterinary nurse? so what - it wouldnt be the be all to end all. I wouldn't be able to do schedule 3? - big deal I don't anyway where I am now and that isnt the be all to end all either. The clients in my current practice I doubt they would even notice. I have never worn a badge, I wear the same uniform as everybody else (which thankfully isn't green) and have not made a big deal over being qualified and what I am called. I would like to think they recognise me for the work I do rather than a fancy title that the average client doesn't even understand. Whatever happens there are still going to be unqualified staff in practice

The point about there being no requirement for listed nurses to maintain their CPD - forgive me if I am wrong but if you are an listed VN working in a practice which is PSS I believe that the listed VN does need to maintain a current CPD as part of the PSS requirement?

My CPD is current and always has been - and is relevant to the job I do.

The CAA are judging your competency on 'stick time' you are showing that you are capable practically. The RCVS are judging competency in what is essentially a very practical occupation by how many hours you have clocked up by going to a 'lunch and learn' where the sandwiches were good/bad/indifferent but where you may have learnt very little or attendance at a congress where the social attendance was far more important than actually attending any lectures

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 10 Dec 2014 09:08:52 GMT

[quote user="Ian MacFarlaine"]Captain Arlo, I get the above but I am confused as to why there is such a short period of grandfather rights here? In most other commercial activity a business has time to transition between old and new requirements (when I was regulating it was a good 5 years minimum for most business change). And we let the supplemementary register for vets go on forever (albeit with restrictions on what they could do) until they all croaked.[/quote]

Well, as regards business, I think grandfather rights are allowed when it is recognised that businesses need time to adjust to the new regulations. Maybe they have to put things in place which take time. Or there are additional costs involved which need to be absorbed into their charges.

I don't see that there is anything about the change from LVN to RVN which warrants grandfather rights. As I understand it, LVNs will just automatically become RVNs in due course. There is no change in fee from being listed to registered. Insurance is available free from VDS. CPD hours can be achieved without any additional cost. So what is the need for grandfather rights?

Thinking about it from the public's perspective (and remembering that the RCVS regulates in the public interest), I also don't see any benefit in retaining an old qualification which is superceded by one which demonstrates currency.

As to the supplementary register for veterinary surgeons - I really don't know enough about that to have an opinion, except that it was created in 1949, when the world was a very different place, and the public's expectations perhaps not quite as demanding.

[quote user="Teri-Ann Baldwin"]I am an RVN but completely agree with both the comments being made by Sal and Myrkk on this matter. Getting rid of the list means potentially losing a lot of amazing Veterinary Nurses who provide a fountain of knowledge and tips for us younger RVNS![/quote]

Teri-Ann Baldwin, I mean't to ask you about this earlier. What do you think is going to happen to the LVNs when the Charter comes into effect. You say you're going to lose them. Really? Reaaaaally? I mean, an employed LVN wakes up the next day and has become an RVN. Do you think a significant number will just down tools and walk away because they are now RVNs?! I'd imagine that since there is no additional cost to being an RVN, most will simply transition.

I DO think some people obviously have some very real fears about it all, which do need to be addressed.

[quote user="Teri-Ann Baldwin"][quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Teri-Ann Baldwin"]As long as the LVNs are up to date with CPD then I don't see a problem here.[/quote]

Yes, but there is no legal requirement to keep up to date unless you are an RVN![/quote]

Yes but a good VN, regardless of status, would want to better their knowledge in areas where they can provide high standards of patient care which means doing some form of CPD even if it isn't monitored like an RVN.[/quote]

But my point is that the regulator can't just rely on the idea that all LVNs are "good and want to better their knowledge, and will do some form of CPD".

To continue the analogy, that would be like the Civil Aviation Authority just trusting the fact that pilots have flown enough to remain current, without any evidence of it. Tell you what, if that was the case, I'd go by boat.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Ian M — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 20:41:41 GMT

Captain Arlo, I get the above but I am confused as to why there is such a short period of grandfather rights here? In most other commercial activity a business has time to transition between old and new requirements (when I was regulating it was a good 5 years minimum for most business change). And we let the supplemementary register for vets go on forever (albeit with restrictions on what they could do) until they all croaked.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Teri-Ann Baldwin — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 18:36:34 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Teri-Ann Baldwin"]As long as the LVNs are up to date with CPD then I don't see a problem here.[/quote]

Yes, but there is no legal requirement to keep up to date unless you are an RVN!

[/quote]

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 17:26:21 GMT

Hmm - lots of interesting points, which I'm going to try and summarise. For those who don't know me, perhaps I should also say that I have no particular axe to grind in any of this. My only objective is that this site provides the best platform possible for VNs to join forces, and share knowledge and experience. As far as anything else goes, I'd like to think I'm just an impartial layman onlooker.

Seems to me that the greatest worry that some LVNs have about becoming registered is that if you ever were up in front of a disciplinary that pitted you against a veterinary surgeon, you wouldn't be treated fairly.

Not so different to the situation if a corporate-employed vet fears that they would be treated unfairly if their employer (who, if not an MRCVS, is not regulated by the College) tells them to do something which conflicts with their responsibility under the CoPC.

My view (for what little its worth), is that personal accountability is part of being a professional, and the price you pay to become regarded as a professional. You have to be prepared to stand up and say to the boss: "No, I'm not doing that, it is my livelihood on the line".

Of course it is easy for me to say that from the comfort of my armchair. But I think there are a few other things which should offer some comfort to LVNs:

Historically, disciplinary cases which have led to a striking off have been very few and far between. So the actual risk seems quite small.
Personally, I have quite a lot of faith in human nature (I appreciate not everyone else will!), and I believe most of those who put themselves forward for DC are honest people who would no more want to see a miscarriage of justice than you.
Even if you disagree with me, and think they would be heavily biased against nurses, the DC is comprised of at least one nurse and one layperson (and one vet).
On top of that, we live in different world to the one that existed even 30 years ago, where things done behind closed doors could be swept under the carpet with ease. Now governing bodies and regulators (and their decisions) are scrutinised like never before. Of course, they know that too. So they know they can't 'get away with' sweeping stuff under the carpet. The internet has given whistleblowers a louder voice than at any time in history.

A few other thoughts:

[quote user="enigmaticat-uk"]I actually quite liked having the option for being listed or registered.[/quote]

Yes, but to be fair, that isn't really a justification for keeping the old system!

[quote user="enigmaticat-uk"]

I would opt for having different gradings eg:

VN for anyone who has passed the exams

RVN for those who want to be registered

AVN (or similar) for those with advanced qualifications.[/quote]

Where is the benefit to the public of the VN qualification, now it has been superceded by a qualification, RVN, that demonstrates some sort of currency in your field?

I was a pilot once. I last flew about 15 years ago. Whilst I still hold a commercial pilot's license, it does not entitle me to fly without demonstrating currency (a certain amount of flying time each year). You should be glad of that, because if you got in a plane now, the last person you'd want to find flying it through a storm is probably me, unless both the pilot and copilot were dead!

My point is that for me as a pet owner, a qualification showing you passed your exams 30 years ago is about as useless as one which showed I could fly a plane 30 years ago.

[quote user="Teri-Ann Baldwin"]As long as the LVNs are up to date with CPD then I don't see a problem here.[/quote]

Yes, but there is no legal requirement to keep up to date unless you are an RVN!

[quote user="Teri-Ann Baldwin"]I wish VNs were regulated by a VN specific body, someone who gets our profession and our way of thinking completely, as a VN and a Vet think completely differently sometimes![/quote]

Both the VN Council and RVN Disciplinary Committee are VN-specific bodies, comprised of veterinary nurses, vets and lay people. Don't you think it is fair and reasonable that veterinary surgeons, who usually employ you, are represented? After all, they are, if you like, the end-users of the 'product'.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Teri-Ann Baldwin — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 13:15:49 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

I actually don't disagree with regulation but I disagree strongly with what we have ended up with. Should we be regulated by the RCVS? is there not a conflict of interests. In a vet against a nurse case who is going to come out on top every single time? Didn't the very first disciplinary against an RVN set any warning bells ringing?

I cannot be a slave to two masters and this is what we are expected to be.

[/quote][quote user="myrkk"] I can assure you that the complete opposite is the truth, all 3 nurses at the practice I work in (a referral practice) are competent, professional and up to date on CPD. [/quote]

I am an RVN but completely agree with both the comments being made by Sal and Myrkk on this matter. Getting rid of the list means potentially losing a lot of amazing Veterinary Nurses who provide a fountain of knowledge and tips for us younger RVNS! I am Registered because I had to following my qualification, don't get me wrong I love being an RVN and love the options open to me right now (especially as I'm so young) but at 23 years old the thought of anything going wrong because of a Vets directions and then having to go up against said Vet to fight my corner and fight for my qualification is terrifying - there is no way they would believe me over say a 30+ year qualified Vet!

I don't think we should be getting rid of the list but I am really happy that we are finally being recognised as professionals, especially when there are 'nurses' who aren't qualified, listed or registered and have never ever trained or even want to train calling themselves Veterinary Nurses.

As long as the LVNs are up to date with CPD then I don't see a problem here. All Nurses - RVN and LVNs - got in to the profession to look after animals and give them the best patient care they can, so if they're doing that then let them be.

I wish VNs were regulated by a VN specific body, someone who gets our profession and our way of thinking completely, as a VN and a Vet think completely differently sometimes!

But hey, that's just my opinion.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

myrkk — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 19:30:20 GMT

I am one of the thousand or so LVN's who chose not to become an RVN, there are three of us at the practice I work in and between us we have approx.. 70yrs nursing experience between us. Jeez that makes me feel old. Why did we choose to not become RVNs? Basically because it was handled very poorly by the RCVS. When we were first regulated the VDS stated they would not provide cover for RVNs, this meant we were at risk of being sued by clients and could lose our houses and livelihood. Yes the chances of this happening were slim but still, we live in a litigenous society. I understand entirely why the VDS were reluctant to cover RVNs but still this left us in a VERY vulnerable position. Why have I still not registered as an RVN given the VDS will now cover us? Quite simply it makes no difference to the way I practice as a nurse. I am very conscientous and keep my CPD up to date, if you read a few of the articles recently about LVNs you could be forgiven for thinking we are a bunch of neanderthals who don't give a monkey's about our patients or our job. I can assure you that the complete opposite is the truth, all 3 nurses at the practice I work in (a referral practice) are competent, professional and up to date on CPD.

As an additional, when I emailed the RCVS re. my concerns early on in the change from LVN to RVN they simply replied (after 2wks) stating that everything I required to know was on their website. With such a condescending attitude are they surprised that LVNs are reluctant to have them governing them?!

I am also with Sal on the vet v nurse issue. I have the pleasure of working with some absolutely amazing vets but unfortunately have worked with some less wonderful vets. It scares me that as far as the RCVS is concerned I work under supervision of the veterinary surgeon but I could be made to be accountable for their mistakes, and believe me I've seen some Dewsey's.

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

enigmaticat-uk — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 18:04:31 GMT

Although I am registered, I actually quite liked having the option for being listed or registered. I can understand why many people want to strive to progress veterinary nursing as a profession - to bring more sense of achievement and responsibility, and to be able to negotiate better wages. Personally, I am not ambitious, I like being a 'nurse', I have no desire to be a 'mini-vet', I am happy for the vets to carry the responsibility as I have suffered from stress/anxiety when I was deputy head nurse. I nurse to the best of my abilities and have found my knowledge and skills to be more than sufficient to work in general practice. I find I do useless CPD just to make up the hours, whereas I would read areas that are interesting/relevent to my job if I didn't HAVE to do it. I agree that those who are more ambitious and want more responsibilty should have that option but I think that there should also be a place for those nurses who were happy with the nursing status when they qualified. I would opt for having different gradings eg:

VN for anyone who has passed the exams

RVN for those who want to be registered

AVN (or similar) for those with advanced qualifications.

I always get the impression that I am in a tiny minority but maybe there are more nurses who share my feelings but keep quiet?

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 11:26:03 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]you obviously don't know that nurses will have to foot the bill for professional insurance then? (unless their boss will do it for them which happily in my case boss will)[/quote]

Sal, the VDS is giving cover for RVNs free of charge when included on the practice policy: http://www.veterinarydefencesociety.co.uk/public/vn.aspx

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]once the list has gone( I am making a Mystic Meg prediction here) the cost of yearly subs will rocket - at the moment they are pretty much 'capped' because of the existence of the list.[/quote]

I don't think that's true. Also: a) I don't think the RCVS has 'form' for rocketing fees (vets fees have been static for 5 years) and b) even if it wanted to, the College just couldn't get away with charging 'rocketing fees' amongst a group of people who are not paid enough to afford it.

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]maybe the reason you can't see a downside is because you aren't a nurse, you will not be affected and you really dont understand what is happening[/quote]

Possibly Sal, but fees and insurance don't seem to me to be an issue (any RVNs want to chip in here?). So if they are not the downsides, what are?

RE: Veterinary Nursing to be recognised as a profession

Sal the 1st — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 10:42:24 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

I struggle to sympathise with anyone who doesn't transfer to the Register when the time comes next year.

[/quote]

which is patently obvious from previous posts

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

It doesn't cost more.

[/quote]

you obviously don't know that nurses will have to foot the bill for professional insurance then? (unless their boss will do it for them which happily in my case boss will)

once the list has gone( I am making a Mystic Meg prediction here) the cost of yearly subs will rocket - at the moment they are pretty much 'capped' because of the existence of the list.

maybe the reason you can't see a downside is because you aren't a nurse, you will not be affected and you really dont understand what is happening

I really can't be bothered to spell this out anymore. I am sick to death of this - in fact right now I am wondering if its even worth carrying on.