Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Anonymous — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:19:48 GMT

of course your letter would get printed as long as it wasn't defamatory or rude, why the Vet Times and not the VN Times? or both ?

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Sal the 1st — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:44:53 GMT

yes I read that bit and took it in maybe I'm not that good at explaining

if a practice can pay a 'veterinary nurse' minimum wage then a qualified nurse will only get paid slightly more than that at some places and because practices have no obligation to employ trainee or qualified nurses and there are always shed loads of people wanting to work with animals the wages stay low because there is always somebody else willing to fill a vacancy. So although qualified staff will probably (not always) earn a higher wage because there is the fall back position of employing non qualified nursing staff the wages are never going to be fantastic qualifications or not

Receptionists are a different kettle of fish- receptionists can work anywhere in any reception and are often in shorter supply than 'nursing' staff. Therefore if the practice wants a decent receptionist it is effectively 'competing' with other employers so may have to pay a higher wage to secure them

BTW I am not running down receptionists or unqualified staff - in a good practice everybody has their part to play.

to simplify things it boils down to supply and demand

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Claire Cameron — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:50:51 GMT

[quote user="sal the 1st"]

in answer to Miss Vetnurse - I hear what you say, and I agree but and here is the big BUT it is still perfectly ok to use staff that have received little or no training and call them a 'veterinary nurse' which devalues those that have trained and qualified.

when advertising for reception staff practices are advertising for a staff member who may well have had experience in the job elsewhere (ie out in the real world where staff are not paid peanuts) so to secure a decent receptionist a practice will have to pay whatever is the going rate for receptionists in their area. To secure a 'veterinary nurse' is another matter with so many people out there wanting to train or wanting to work with animals basically many practices pay what they can get away with and have been doing so for a very long time - which has a knock on effect for all veterinary nurses qualified, training, or otherwise.

So yes I agree that comparitively speaking nursing staff are underpaid and undervalued

[/quote]

I meant Qualified Veterinary Nurse's getting paid less than receptionists.

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Sal the 1st — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:37:56 GMT

So yes I agree that comparitively speaking nursing staff are underpaid and undervalued

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:39:49 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

[quote user="SaskiaVN"]

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Ellew"]I have moved to locum work and earn almost double what I did[/quote]

and with locums you have the ability to 'fire' them without any costs if the practice is quiet.

[/quote]

Forgive me but I thought you'd just tell them you don't need them anymore. hardly constitues firing. Cos that implies they have done something wrong...............

[/quote]

Yes, I would say same as Nick. Firing because the practice is quiet is to the extreme, whereas just nicely saying they are no longer required is better.

[/quote]

Never know when your gonna need a locum again and word travels like wildfire. 'I wouldn't work for them if I were you they fired me!"

[/quote]

Oops - I guess putting the 'fire' in apostrophies and adding my wink didn't work - I was being cheeky. I have never fired anyone - (well, a locum vet that killed a cat on her 3rd day doesn't really count does it?) and was only being flippant. Obviously you just wouldn't continue their position - not fling them out on their backside! I was only making the point that getting rid of a permanent member of staff is more tricky!

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Claire Cameron — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:35:23 GMT

[quote user="STRVN"]

[quote user="natalie mcniece"]

iam 25 paid NMW for qualifiying as an ANA and have my 2nd child on the way my boss wont pay me more because the money isnt there she says, reception staff are paid more than me??????

dont get it

[/quote]

Some reception staff are paid more than qualifieds in some places.

[/quote]

A practice I used to work at paid receptionists more than QVNs. I understand that receptionists deal with front of house and it can be hard work, but IMHO not harder than training to be a VN and then qualifying, I also do reception work....but they wouldnt be able to do a QVN job?

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

natalie mcniece — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:34:49 GMT

thankyou that would be great,

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Sal the 1st — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:15:19 GMT

most places I have worked in the past receptionists were paid better than qualifieds - but then consider the receptionist might have to take a helluva lot of crap and abuse front of house depending on the practice.

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:11:56 GMT

[quote user="natalie mcniece"]

iam 25 paid NMW for qualifiying as an ANA and have my 2nd child on the way my boss wont pay me more because the money isnt there she says, reception staff are paid more than me??????

dont get it

[/quote]

Some reception staff are paid more than qualifieds in some places.

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:04:57 GMT

I'll let you know if a job comes available

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

natalie mcniece — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:02:07 GMT

iam 25 paid NMW for qualifiying as an ANA and have my 2nd child on the way my boss wont pay me more because the money isnt there she says, reception staff are paid more than me??????

dont get it

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

johannapage — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:44:39 GMT

on a note with regards to VS ad's being more structured, has anyone seen the ad in tis weeks VT's tells bankers and mp's not to apply....hate to say but it did make me chuckle, it did highlight the atributes they want from an employee tho

PLUS in response to the chocs and cakes on offer.....what about diabetics.....isnt that discrimination...... (just stiring things a tad more....

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Nick Shackleton — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:20:58 GMT

[quote user="SaskiaVN"]

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Ellew"]I have moved to locum work and earn almost double what I did[/quote]

and with locums you have the ability to 'fire' them without any costs if the practice is quiet.

[/quote]

Forgive me but I thought you'd just tell them you don't need them anymore. hardly constitues firing. Cos that implies they have done something wrong...............

[/quote]

Yes, I would say same as Nick. Firing because the practice is quiet is to the extreme, whereas just nicely saying they are no longer required is better.

[/quote]

Never know when your gonna need a locum again and word travels like wildfire. 'I wouldn't work for them if I were you they fired me!"

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Saskia Quinn — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:04:58 GMT

[quote user="Nick Shackleton"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Ellew"]I have moved to locum work and earn almost double what I did[/quote]

and with locums you have the ability to 'fire' them without any costs if the practice is quiet.

[/quote]

Forgive me but I thought you'd just tell them you don't need them anymore. hardly constitues firing. Cos that implies they have done something wrong...............

[/quote]

Yes, I would say same as Nick. Firing because the practice is quiet is to the extreme, whereas just nicely saying they are no longer required is better.

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Nick Shackleton — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:32:59 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Ellew"]I have moved to locum work and earn almost double what I did[/quote]

and with locums you have the ability to 'fire' them without any costs if the practice is quiet.

[/quote]

Forgive me but I thought you'd just tell them you don't need them anymore. hardly constitues firing. Cos that implies they have done something wrong...............

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Tracy Windler RVN — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:06:12 GMT

That was a reply to the post on the previous page!! Hence the lack of sense-making!

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Tracy Windler RVN — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:02:00 GMT

Oh, the pay was quite poor, but it was my training practice and I didn't do any out of hours or extra hours to my 40 a week, so at least I knew I was being paid for the work I did. Unlike some of the jobs I've had as a qualified nurse, where I've been salaried, with night shifts and 48 hour weekend shifts all covered by the monthly salary. Thats more demoralising than being offered cakes and biscuits in the job advert!

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:15:29 GMT

[quote user="Ellew"]I have moved to locum work and earn almost double what I did[/quote]

yes - permanent staff are paid less but with a locum your employer doesn't have to factor in all the other things they have to either pay for or plan for - some examples being:

uniform

sick pay

holiday pay

maternity pay

registration

CPD

training

and with locums you have the ability to 'fire' them without any costs if the practice is quiet.

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Ellew — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:26:14 GMT

It is probably not the 'biscuits' etc we are objecting to but the generally poor pay, working conditions and regard in which we are held. I left my first practice after more than ten years due to the increasing difficulty in finding the money to live and pay my mortgage.

During the time I was there my responsibilities increased and the differential in pay was erroded, initially by the implementation of the minimum wage! Immediately prior to leaving I found I was earning less than £2 an hour more than the lowest paid (untrained) member of staff.

I have moved to locum work and earn almost double what I did, but the downside is that I am working away from the home I am paying for. I have found locum nurses to be amongst the best and the support we give each other is invaluable. Furthermore, we fully understand our worth as the professional nurses are.

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Mac Feather — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 12:25:13 GMT

In my humble opinion things have changed slightly over the 20 yr Ive been in the vet nurse game.

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Helen Freer — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 12:20:57 GMT

[quote user="kezzathecat"]

yes totally agree Nick, sadly however, we are not taken seroiusly as people or professionals for example when clients ask you... aaaw so do you want to be a vet one day?

F*** OFF! would human nurses get asked that?? NO so why ask it of us? Because we are not advertised as professionals we are just seen as 'helpers', 'little people who assist the vet and serve no other purpose' and until future employers are willing to recognise that we have worked hard for the qualifications that we have earned then the general public will not follow. Sad state of affars but thats the bottom line that we are just a joke to many vets, my boss still doesn't think its a nurses place to actually nurse and put animals on drips/ administer treatment/ take radiographs, its a constant daily battle to try to implement the skills in which I have been taught.

I'm getting kind of tired of the whole daily battle of trying to prove that I am worthy of such tasks and the general public don't respect us as they witness the vet calling us 'the girl at the desk'... the girl with no name... the little person who serves the all knowing almighty vets...

I suppose the job adverts are the icing on the cake, after all we don't seem to need decent pay to survive just simply biscuits and chocolate.

[/quote]

As someone who has worked in another profession, accountancy . We got tea/coffee and biscuits at least twice a day made for us but they would NEVER think that this should be part of the advert for the job as that would be unprofessional!

I think that adverts containing details of biscuits, cakes and chips equally tells a prosective applicant alot about the professionalism of the practice and whether the vets in the practice really value the nurses. Surely details of CPD and OOH work are far more important.

Sadly after reading this topic I have come to the conculsion that there are some vets out there that think of VN as just glorified receptionists/cleaners until the attitude of the vets to the VN changes, I feel it will be difficult for Veterinary Nursing to be seen as a profession and ultimately to change the general publics attitude to the knowledge that VN have.

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Mac Feather — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 12:12:40 GMT

It used to bug me when the vets would call us V.Ns 'girls'. I always used to bring this up asking the vets to call us 'nurses', after all I wouldnt tell a client to make an appt with them by calling them boys/girls. Its a small point but it used to bug me.

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 11:42:49 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="MissVetNurse"]I got asked recently if I was "one of those veterinary assistant thingys"[/quote]

It goes both ways sometimes. I recently treated a rat, including giving an injn and dispensed antibiotics. I was alone in the consult room. The owner rang the following morning to make another appointment with the nurse she saw yesterday. Took quite a bit of convincing her that she did actually see a vet.

[/quote]

That happens to a lot of women vets.

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 11:39:02 GMT

[quote user="MissVetNurse"]I got asked recently if I was "one of those veterinary assistant thingys"[/quote]

Re: Biscuits? Chocolate? How about Proper PAY??!!

Sandra Taylor RVN, MBVNA — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 11:32:46 GMT

They are also offering the obligatory chocolate as well I might add...........oh and coffee, woop woop lets all beat a path to their door