Interested in peoples opinions on this...

RE: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

lemonearth905 — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:29:21 GMT

Our fist and formost responsibility is to the patient, Im glad that you stayed and did what you could, the fact that you had to stay late is just one of those things, i have worked in some practices that have amde you work the next day despite finishing at 3am the same day!! yes this maybe against working time regulations but at the end of the the day you need to discuss thia with your employer / head nure etc.. as to time in leiu or have the next day off.

you need to decide whet you are willing to put up with. As nurses wee seem able to put up with alot ofthis type of thing but we wouldn't be in this profession if we wanted a 9-5 job!

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

jojofruits — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 15:43:22 GMT

Just wow!

if that was my dog having a GDV I certainly wouldnt want it carted off elsewhere for surgery!! I dont think it s unreasonable to stay for something like this..

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

gymgams — Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:34:39 GMT

[quote user="kerryfeehan"]

[quote user="samz60020@hotmail.com"]

to be honest a don't hardly post anymore as sometimes what you say can be misconstrued... hope you come to a solution x

[/quote]

Ditto with you on this one and how comments can be misconstrued! Thank you and may I say I have certainly had enough of this thread now and will not be posting further!

[/quote] Please don't be discouraged from writing further posts. I'm sure at some time or another in all of our nursing careers we have been in a similar situation. So we can all sympathise and people have written some quite helpful and sympathetic posts. I agree that there are ways of posting comments so as not to land yourself into trouble. But on the other hand it is very hard for us to get free and impartial advice from nurses other than those you work with. The reason I have started to come on this website is for the same reason as I'm sure you have... To see what everyone else does in the situation you are in (though mine is a bit different to yours). I stick by my comment of the advice lines to ring as they were more than helpful and were anonymous. If you find that sounding off in written form would help you more... Then try the "vetlife" website. They email you back very promptly. For all the bad shifts you have... Think of the good ones!

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

Sam Thompson RVN GradDip VN — Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:14:12 GMT

Hi Kerry,

It seems the real issue is the surgery that was performed when the animal had an extremely poor prognosis. Maybe this is something you can discuss with the senior vet?

I agree with everything you say about hours and overtime but I came to realize that its the job.... So I left the profession, sad but if you are that unhappy maybe you need to have a think about your options?

Sam

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

Sal the 1st — Wed, 20 Aug 2014 09:52:34 GMT

not necessarily misconstrued - just that people don't always see things the same way. Remember those of us that have commented were not there to see what happened and have only made our comments based on your account. I hope you do get a positive outcome from discussing this within the practice

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

kerryfeehan — Wed, 20 Aug 2014 09:46:12 GMT

[quote user="samz60020@hotmail.com"]

to be honest a don't hardly post anymore as sometimes what you say can be misconstrued... hope you come to a solution x

[/quote]

Ditto with you on this one and how comments can be misconstrued! Thank you and may I say I have certainly had enough of this thread now and will not be posting further!

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

Sammyannieantha — Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:43:14 GMT

Hi Kerry I would talk to your head nurse again.. Unfortunately I don't think this is the place to discuss..its realy for you to stress your personal concerns.. i know no names were mention but a client could see this... I totally understand where your coming from -we all know it comes with the job but there are limits..to be honest a don't hardly post anymore as sometimes what you say can be misconstrued... hope you come to a solution x

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

kerryfeehan — Tue, 19 Aug 2014 19:11:56 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

[quote user="kerryfeehan"]

[quote user="gymgams"]

Is this a regular occurrence at your practice? I used to work at a practice which closed at 7pm and phones went over to our OOH provider. If that client had telephoned before 7pm then we definitely would have referred them on to our provider and explained that there wouldn’t be anyone to monitor the patient over night etc etc. However, several times when someone just “turned up” we felt obliged (even though it is not mandatory) to treat the patient. Yes it does suck that the next day I would have had to start work at 8am and I would have been a bit (!) cranky… but at the end of the day isn’t it worth trying to save a patient’s life? Because that is why we became nurses? I currently work at a Hospital providing our own OOH and I’m acting head nurse at the moment and if one of my nurses came to me and explained the situation you are in… it is my duty to go higher up and get it sorted. We pay for overtime, but offer time off in lieu if nurses prefer this, and it generally softens the blow of having to be on-call. If no one at work is listening to you and you feel very strongly about this situation… it might be worth contacting the BVNA legal advice line or failing that ACAS. I hope you get things sorted :- )

[/quote]

Yeah the fact that we do not have overnight staff to monitor recovering patients in these situations is a big concern and it is not ideal to transfer seriously ill patients post surgery. Of course I want to help save an animals life but in this situation the animal had already died! The vet got the heart going again but the animal had no reflexes and was unable to breathe on its own. I think this is why I was so particularly annoyed with this specific incident as I strongly disagreed with the operation being performed when the animal had already died following iv cannula placement and seemed to be brain dead.These issues generally occur with the same clients who have animals as a source of income and will refuse to go or have their animals transferred to ooh due to costs. Time off in lieu would be fantastic but it wont happen.

[/quote]

so a big aspect of this is that you are questioning clinical judgement?This you need to be very careful with, you are not in a position to make a diagnosis- this is very dodgy ground.

[/quote]

No basically. I always go with what the vet says but I do not have to personally agree with it. I am fully aware of the code of conduct and have in no way made a diagnosis? In my opinion as I stated previously it 'seemed' to be brain dead. That was my own personal thought, not something that I said to the client and as such in no way a diagnosis!

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

Dreamcatcher — Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:39:55 GMT

I agree with Nicky, if doing surgery at the time was the only chance the animal had vs PTS, and that even though the animals chances were slim, then if this is the choice the owner made (presumably the vet on duty would have explained prognosis etc to the owner) we have to respect this (even if we don't agree with it). There will always be times when we don't agree with an owner's decision especially with regards to PTS or not but they are the ones who have to be at peace with their decision. Obviously there are times when PTS is strongly recommended to prevent suffering but in this case there was a slim chance the dog might have survived. It's never nice to have to deal with situations like this and then have a sad outcome, and I can understand why you feel as though it was all for nothing :-( it sounds like you handled it very well despite your misgivings which is the main thing :-)

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

Nicola Smith — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 14:50:12 GMT

We had a cat that underwent surgery for perforated fb and peritonitis. Was ventilated with no reflexes for 2 hours and went on to make a full recovery. Also need to consider in these cases would the animal have survived ling enough to get to ooh provider for surgery? If not then performing it there and giving it a chance was the right thing to do if the owners agreed. I have been in nursing for many years and if there is a chance of saving a life i will stay till whatever time and as we are a small practice still need to be back in as normal the next day. We take time in lieu when we are quiet enough.

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

Sal the 1st — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 11:01:15 GMT

[quote user="kerryfeehan"]

[quote user="gymgams"]

[/quote]

so a big aspect of this is that you are questioning clinical judgement?This you need to be very careful with, you are not in a position to make a diagnosis- this is very dodgy ground.

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

kerryfeehan — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 09:34:59 GMT

[quote user="gymgams"]

[/quote]

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

kerryfeehan — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 09:34:58 GMT

[quote user="gymgams"]

[/quote]

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

Kathryn Welsh — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 04:29:46 GMT

From the other side - working for Vets Now - if we got the call at 8am and own vets didn't open till 8.30am depending on location we would advise coming to us so we can at least begin stabilisation - as own vets won't be expecting and may have a full morning of consults!

Have been in situations where are shifts start at 7pm and owners are waiting for us because they have been told to come straight over - most recently an RTA cat that hadn't been examined by own vets and travelled 30mins to us - and wasn't made aware of fees...

I thought generally we opt out of working time regulations as it isn't a 9-5 type of job... I've had nights were we don't finish till 10am and are back in at 7pm - it is one of those things and as long as doesn't happen too often then we just do it for our patients/clients!

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

gymgams — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 06:15:05 GMT

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

Alison Clare Hickman — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 10:53:44 GMT

Hey there,

An honest pow-wow with everyone defo sounds like the answer... if you can be brave and ask for one? Stick to your guns about your concerns about your health and the welfare of your patients.

Please don't leave it until you're so poorly you're signed off sick with the stress/have crashed and burned. Nothing is worth that.

Good luck. Stand tall. Say the words.

Ali h

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

kerryfeehan — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:20:28 GMT

We don't have HR and the head nurse is aware of the issues and is not happy herself but does not do anything and the Vet is the manager so no luck there either.

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

Sal the 1st — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:41:55 GMT

Kerry we have all been there. I think something that is causing you so much upset you really do need to be discussing this with your HN, HR dept or vet.

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

kerryfeehan — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:09:59 GMT

[quote user="NuttyNu"]

I feel there are limits and give-take also in this.

Whilst I have not worked in a practice which doesn't do their own out of hours, we have always done our own.. I tend to stay beyond my shift should these times arrise at my current job, however, there are limits as to how much time you can stay and how many days a week you can stay late etc... If this becomes regular that you don't finish on time, I would be in discussion with the boss / senior nurse as to how to resolve this (e.g. changing times of shifts). I do know what you mean that you just don't think of a finish time and if you actually finish by the end of your shift, you feel it as a bonus!

However, If I was out a lot in the night or very back and not enough sleep time between shifts, i would talk to the line manager about finishing early the next day or starting early the following day... You may yourself need time to recover as well!

You kind of have to think about how good a nurse you are with limited time off between shifts and what you are capable of. I know I don't do night shifts as any part of a rota as I know that it takes me far too long to recover from one.

[/quote]

Thank you! You have hit the nail on the head! Some nurses have children and cannot stay later! I myself do not but I do feel that pressure is piled on to nurses who do not have children as in peoples eyes they have no excuse to leave on time. But what if all the nurses had children to get home to? What would happen then?! I also do not technically do night shifts as we do not do our own ooh but have often stayed extremely late and have been denied the option of coming in even half an hour later the next day. Myself and the nurse I was on with that night were both extremely tired the next day and it did impact on our ability to perform our roles to the best of our abilities. Luckily there were no major incidents, other wise like you say, we certainly would not have been at our best and that is what I find truly worrying when you consider how on the ball you have to be to monitor anaesthetics! Thank you for your response, I was beginning to think I was the only one out there!

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

kerryfeehan — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 19:58:28 GMT

[quote user="Katie Sanderson"]

I believe in every practice I have worked in I have signed a waver in my contract to the 11 hour gap between shift. nature of this work is you never know what is going to come through the door. So long as your boss is paying for your time or giving it back in lieu then I don't see there being a problem (having worked 97 hour week night shift before ). all practice policies have been that we treat anything that walks through the door before closing as sending to OOH could as Sal said delay treatment and the animal will suffer. At the end of the day the practice you work in is also a business and need to turn over cash so a GDV sadly is a decent source of income.

[/quote]

That is all well and good but I nor anyone else in my practice has signed a waiver to the working time regulations.

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

azlana — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 18:06:26 GMT

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

NuttyNu — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:37:44 GMT

I feel there are limits and give-take also in this.

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kkatkatk — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 23:23:42 GMT

If I am needed i stay. Tired aside. Plans aside. What time I start work the next day aside. I don't really expect to get away on time when I'm working a close shift then if I do it's a bonus. Animals can't help when they get sick or that their owners leave it till the last minute of opening hours to call and if I can make a difference to that animal that's the most important thing to me.

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WTF_dinosaur — Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:11:02 GMT

[quote user="Lesley M"]

We do our own OOH and have had to do this a million times. I have even stayed up all night with a dog and had to work the whole of the next day. Just part and parcel of being a VN I'm afraid. It is rubbish but sadly its how it is

[/quote]

100% with this!

We do our own OOH and always staying ridiculously late if something urgent comes in, but just sucks that's the job we went for, goodbye life haha

Also ive always been under the impression that the 11 hour break was if you was working/onsite for more than 24 hours?

Re: Interested in peoples opinions on this...

Lesley M — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:44:49 GMT