Dentals and Tesco insurance

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Saskia Quinn — Sat, 30 May 2009 02:57:43 GMT

[quote user="SaskiaVN"]

i have a 13 year old border collie/labrador crossbreed. She has chewed everything since I have had her - about 10 years, anything from sticks to balls to pedigree rasks etc. she has spent about 1/3 of her life chewing.

If you look at her teeth, there is not a trace of tartar anywhere and she has never had a dental. Her teeth look like what you would expect of an adolescent dog and she is not fed anything different than the rest of my brood who's teeth do have tartar present, though not enough at the moment to warrant a dental.

[/quote]

so much for posting this done me no good whatsoever, I lost her tonight due to a ? haemangiosarcoma of the liver. Read my thread, 'tragedy at home tonight'

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Anonymous — Fri, 29 May 2009 20:37:34 GMT

[quote user="Selena Carnell"]

i think it was meant as a bit of a joke rather than an insult. lighten up a bit.

[/quote]

No bad tone here!! Promise!

the BARF diet is actually very economical when done properly. Caro should know by now I wouldn't think she was being hurtful or serious. But apparently sarcasm with 'oi' and '...' weren't clear! I grew up in America, but to be honest, i really don't like associating myself with it! That's why I live here and have done for 8yrs. ;) No hard feelings! all good here, i'm light as a feather! ;)

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Selena Carnell — Fri, 29 May 2009 13:26:58 GMT

i think it was meant as a bit of a joke rather than an insult. lighten up a bit.

I wanted some advice not a thread on BARF diets, Daisy has now had her GA and tooth removal. Insurance form sent off so we will see what happened, apparently she had cracked it well and good.

I would never feed a barf diet, to risky in my own opinion! expensive too!

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Anonymous — Fri, 29 May 2009 13:12:03 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite"]

had to be the americans that coined it not realising.

[/quote]

oi i'm american and that's a very nasty thing to say! not all of them are idiots! i think name calling is a little out of line...

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 29 May 2009 00:47:57 GMT

Oh ans l wish they could change the name of BARF diets lets face it it sounds disgusting, had to be the americans that coined it not realising.

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Caro Laithwaite VN — Fri, 29 May 2009 00:47:11 GMT

Hey Claire hows doing
I am a guilty intermittent owner.Well was speaking to Alex the other day about human teeth and he said that chewing dental gum is better than brushing as that damages the enamel. I have heard that before about humans. He got side tracked before l could ask about animal teeth but will corner him.
Course no dog or cat will sit and chew gum.

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Kim Buckley — Thu, 28 May 2009 21:09:13 GMT

I got told by a vet that unless you brush a dogs teeth every day then there is no point doing them at all. Don't know how true that is! I do my dogs teeth when I remember (which isn't very often) Bad owner! :P

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Saskia Quinn — Thu, 28 May 2009 20:59:30 GMT

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Sal the 1st — Thu, 28 May 2009 19:38:29 GMT

just out of interest how many of us are brushing our pets teeth? - Mo and Jas have theirs done twice a week, Morris will actually come and find you because he loves the toothpaste (well actually he loves anything thats edible, because he is such a greedy git!). We use the enzymatic as the logic doesnt seem to go down too well with Jasper. Apart from the broken teeth that came with him (Morris) both of them appear to have exceptionally good teeth

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Claire Bloor — Thu, 28 May 2009 15:59:44 GMT

Hi Steph

Glad it was useful chuck!! I absolutely see where your coming from and know there are pros and cons to everything (especially BARF diets!!) in this (veterinary) world and I respect every opinion...it's nice to have a forum to discuss these topics. :-)

I also agree that some animals do inherently have good or bad teeth. 1 of my cats is ferocious whenever you try to do anything with her, hence with there being just me at home there is no way on Earth I could brush her teeth. I tried...and I have the scars!! But, luckily she has amazingly good teeth. She had a FORL a few months back that was removed but for her age the rest are actually fantastic!!!

Claire :-)

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Anonymous — Thu, 28 May 2009 14:50:51 GMT

Cheers Claire I found this very informative. Also for the record, I wasn't saying that raw/meaty bones would solve all the dental problems or eleminate the dental issues. Just that it was helpful in reducing the plaque build up vs. a commercial diet. I think an dentist would agree that sometimes it's nothing to do with brushing or diet, sometimes it's just hereditary having weak teeth or gingival disease. I don't think a lot of the additives in many diets today help the situation. But that's a whole nother can of worms...

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Claire Bloor — Wed, 27 May 2009 18:42:10 GMT

Hi all. Sorry not had time to come on here for a while to follow the thread!! Anyway...

Aside from the raw foods debate and whether you like it or not...bones or chews or dental diets cannot keep the teeth clean and the peridontium healthy. That is a pure fact.

The anatomy of a tooth proves the point - where the gingival margin meets the tooth you will notice anatomically there is an enamel 'bulge'. This aids in deflecting whatever is being chewed away from the gingiva once it has 'slid' down the tooth surface so as to not cause repeated trauma to the gingival tissue. In doing so yes plaque will be mechanically removed from the surface of the majority of the tooth crown but it will not be removed from the gingival sulcus where it actually causes the most damage - i.e. irritation of the gingival tissues (ginigivitis) and ultimatley progression onto periodontitis.

Mechanical removal of the plaque from the ginigival sulcus can only be achieved through toothbrushing - only the bristles can get into that sulcus. Any of the dental specialists from the veterinary world will attest to this as will human dentists, and this is also the reason why us humans do not chew bones/chews/dental diets to clean our own teeth every day instead of brushing!!

Also, with regards to the wild animals and dental disease there are quite a lot of articles out there regarding dental disease and treatments that have been performed. I have found a few from the Journal of Veterinary Dentistry to highlight my point:

Endodontics/restoratives in a tiger - 14:1 March 1997 and 14:4 December 1997 and 20:3 September 2003
Wild dog oral/dental conditions - 16:2 June 1999
FORL (Feline Odontoclastic Resorptive Lesion) in leopards - 13:1 March 1996
FORL in lions - 13:1 March 1996
Oral pathology in wild dog skulls - 16:2 June 1999
Surgical extraction of fractured, non vital deciduous tooth in a tiger 20:4 December 2003

With many of the conditions described in these articles we would have them sorted out surgically in our domestic animals (hopefully) before the condition proved to be a problem with their eating or causing them discomfort etc. In the wild - for example - if a lion developed FORLs on its teeth, which then weakened the teeth causing the crowns to 'snap off', how would it be able to eat or catch prey? It wouldn't be able to and it would die. FORLs have been reported in wild cats as they have been in domestic cats, but if the scenarios of all of the teeth 'snapping off' occurred in domestic cats (which I am sure you have come accross - people saying that their cat's teeth have just been 'lost' over the years!) they would still be able to eat because they are fed commercial pet foods, which do not necessarily have to be chewed or their owners would notice a problem and bring them to the vets. I chose FORLs as an example there but the same would apply to other oral conditions and dental disease is thought to be one of the main reasons why wild animals do not live as long as their domestic counterparts, as mentioned in a previous post - they are more likely to break their tooth on a bone in the wild than a biscuit or tinned food in the domestic environment!

Right. I am off home for some tea now!

Cheers

Claire :-)

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Anonymous — Wed, 27 May 2009 10:36:59 GMT

[quote user="Cat Woman"]

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite"]gove bopnes[/quote]

[/quote]

the scary thing is i read that perfectly as 'give bones' with out even noticing that she cocked it up!! HAHA I was also very sleepy too...

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Caro Laithwaite VN — Wed, 27 May 2009 06:32:38 GMT

Aww cut me some slack was 1:30 am (middle of the night) when you lot were sleeping l was working been stupid busy shifts yet again have had about 3 days off in 3 weeks and all lates and nights along with life stress

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Cat Woman — Tue, 26 May 2009 17:20:35 GMT

[quote user="Caro Laithwaite"]gove bopnes[/quote]

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Caro Laithwaite VN — Tue, 26 May 2009 01:29:29 GMT

Oh christ another one on the bottle!!.

Anyhow side tracked it is an issue with 99% of people because they leave bones down only about 1% won't. Am talking about those that gove bopnes for any reason.

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Anonymous — Sat, 23 May 2009 15:36:36 GMT

Ask most people that feed Raw meaty bone or BARF they don't leave bones down for long. They are picked up if not eaten with in a few hours. But usually that's not an issue. :)

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Caro Laithwaite VN — Sat, 23 May 2009 14:56:58 GMT

Leaving aside bone impacts there is the HGE caused. This comes because bones are left to be chewed many times while lying around and bacteria happily infects the bones called "the rotting process", These then transfer to the gut and lo and behold your dog has got the case of shits bloods and pukes.

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Anonymous — Sat, 23 May 2009 01:17:17 GMT

[quote user="Cat Woman"]

[quote user="StephB"]they are excellent for some animals if followed correctly.[/quote]

I agree with StephB, that for some animals a raw diet containing bones is great. However, I don't think that you can start feeding an adult dog raw bones, when it is used to tinned food & biscuits & expect the dog to eat it "correctly". I believe it is something that is learnt when pups are young (& before we get a chance to spoil them with rubbish!)

[/quote]

agreed - it should be practiced either from youngsters or slowly progressed and raw meaty bone diets are not for every dog or every owner for that matter. :)

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Cat Woman — Fri, 22 May 2009 20:44:18 GMT

[quote user="StephB"]they are excellent for some animals if followed correctly.[/quote]

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Anonymous — Fri, 22 May 2009 19:39:25 GMT

[quote user="Bouncyfi"]

Yes but you're agreeing its a problem....so why force that problem onto our domestic pets!

[/quote]

No, I'm not agreeing it's a problem. They could choke on, swallow or break a tooth on pretty much anything. Raw meaty bones are the least of their problems in the house holds of today!

Please don't put words in my mouth! I am all for RAW diets and I think they are excellent for some animals if followed correctly.

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Fiona Leathers — Fri, 22 May 2009 13:15:55 GMT

Yes but you're agreeing its a problem....so why force that problem onto our domestic pets!

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Anonymous — Fri, 22 May 2009 10:26:08 GMT

I don't think eating raw bones is the reason they don't live as long. I think there are many other factors invovled, the fact that most wild dogs and cats are pack animals and are killed by their own or have to walk for days and days on end just to get to their food. only so many of them can feed... i think bones are the least of their problems.

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Fiona Leathers — Fri, 22 May 2009 09:09:09 GMT

Well John Robinson (dental guru) said at one of my CPD meetings, that there is no evidence to state that eating bones benefits the wild dogs at all, there are no dental records for wild dogs and it is a fact that wild dogs are not living into their late teens, like our domestic counterparts.

You only have to look at some of the problems we see in practice from feeding bones, slab fractures of carnassials, broken molars, lacerated guts, colitis etc etc to determine that if these dogs were left untreated, they wouldn't survive very long.

John Robinson is a dental God and if he states its a bad idea then thats good enough for me!

Re: Dentals and Tesco insurance

Anonymous — Thu, 21 May 2009 18:40:52 GMT

[quote user="Bouncyfi"]

[quote user="StephB"]

What do you think helped get those canines so strong in evolution? lots of bone crunching! :)

[/quote]

What do you think makes the animals in the wild not live as long as domestic pets???? Lots of bone crunching!!

[/quote]

is that a fact?

interesting...