staff discounts

Re: staff discounts

Denise — Tue, 10 Dec 2013 21:05:44 GMT

As a nurse who qualified many moons ago, the more CPD I do the more there is to learn...

My pets are both insured and to keep the insurance valid the terms and conditions state that they must have a full health examination annually -so this usually happens at booster time and by a vet.

My cats and dogs have all managed to live to a good age and this is thanks to the help and treatment of all the vets I know and have worked with.

Nurses, breeders and vets should be working together to produce well socialised, healthy pets and well informed happy owners.

Re: staff discounts

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 09:58:45 GMT

[quote user="Fuzzyduck"]I'm not saying I'm a mini vet, but if your nurses are admitting animals for GA like you say, they should be able to conduct a clinical exam so they don't admit sick animals for routine surgery.[/quote]

The nurses ask the owner if they feel the animal is unwell, and ask all the usual important admit questions, and go through the form. They check anatomy (testis, infantile vulva etc.) They check HR and temp. All the usual nurse tasks. However, if the animal hasn't been seen recently by a vet the nurse will ask a vet to do a clinical exam after admit but before surgery. The nurses are not responsible for picking up heart problems or subtle signs of illness - a situation they seem to prefer. If something went wrong it wouldn't be fair to have put that responsibility on their shoulders.

Re: staff discounts

Fuzzyduck — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 09:19:33 GMT

Gillian, I'm not saying I'm a mini vet, but if your nurses are admitting animals for GA like you say, they should be able to conduct a clinical exam so they don't admit sick animals for routine surgery. I also don't want to take my pet in for vaccination, free health check or not because a 50 mile round trip plus a day sitting in kennels would be very stressful for them, so I prefer to check them myself at home and vaccinate them there also. Each to their own though.

Re: staff discounts

denise laughlin — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 09:05:33 GMT

Have followed this thread with interest ;)

For the record, I am not allowed to bring any of my animals on site, regardless of their health status, my dog (non-insured) is chronically ill and I am not allowed to purchase ANY supplies through ANY of the suppliers i use to stock our hospital as it may be seen as a conflict of interest. As a result I take my dog to a good local clinic (30 quid round trip in a taxi) and pay for everything, while buying my food elsewhere after hunting high and low for the best prices. I am not even allowed to take freebies from reps so can't get samples to trial before buying..

A previous employer allowed us to have everything totally free so I got a castrate, couple of dentals and a full Cruciate repair out of that..good for me at the time as a half starved SVN but now I have more of a business mind, I'd definitely be the one veto'ing that!

Just sayin'..

Gillian, the nursing profession needs more smart and supportive vets like you- let me know when you're advertising ;)

Re: staff discounts

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 23:46:53 GMT

[quote user="Fuzzyduck"]Lucky for me then that I've never worked anywhere that I've had to take my pets in for vaccines. [/quote]

I have never worked anywhere that nurses would want to take vaccines home. They all prefer to bring their pet in to see the vet for a full (and free) healthcheck.

[quote user="Fuzzyduck"] If you don't think those things make a good nurse Gillian, I'd hate to think what you do think makes a good nurse! Perhaps being able to answer the phones and sweep the floors![/quote]

Don't be so presumptive. 3/4 of my nurses are RVNs, with the rest at different stages of their training. All have been trained at my practice, at quite considerable cost. I believe strongly that it is a profession in its own right which provides a vital service. My nurses aren't, however, mini-vets. They are amazing at what they do but it would take too long to list everything. Part of their job is maintaining a clean and hygienic clinical environment - in which they take a hell of a lot of pride. And yes, they will also pick up the phone when the receptionists are busy. They also prepare the patients for surgery, including giving medications, placing canulas and IV lines and monitoring the patient both during surgery and post-operatively. They do all the admit and discharge appointments and provide care plans as required. They have their own consulting slots and junior and senior health clinics. They do second vaccination appointments where they go through all the behavioural and medical aspects of owning a dog/cat. They assist feed the exotic patients, by different methods, frequently during the day.

The practice would not 'work' without them.

They do not carry out clinical examinations in order to carry out booster vaccinations. That is one of the vet's jobs - both because the vet is specifically trained for it and are more likely to pick up subtle problems, and also because it is the law.

However, if you feel you are equally qualified to carry out a full clinical examination, and your vet is happy to dispense a POMV to you, then there is nothing to stop you.

Re: staff discounts

Sal the 1st — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:16:36 GMT

[quote user="Fuzzyduck"]

I'd hate to think what you do think makes a good nurse! Perhaps being able to answer the phones and sweep the floors!

[/quote]

hey!

hang on a minute this is what I do every working day - along with nursing duties,and to me being able to adapt to what is needed in the practice is being a good nurse

Re: staff discounts

Fuzzyduck — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 21:46:41 GMT

Lucky for me then that I've never worked anywhere that I've had to take my pets in for vaccines. I'm quite honestly surprised other people have to. If you don't think those things make a good nurse Gillian, I'd hate to think what you do think makes a good nurse! Perhaps being able to answer the phones and sweep the floors!

Re: staff discounts

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:15:52 GMT

Fuzzyduck. You may feel you are able to do all those things. You may or may not be correct. Legally, you are still not allowed to dispense a POM V and any vet who does so without having examined the animal themselves recently (3 months is the accepted norm) is breaking the law.

[quote user="Fuzzyduck"]all these things are what makes me a good nurse[/quote]]

We'll have to agree to disagree on what makes a good nurse.

Re: staff discounts

fairy — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 21:53:23 GMT

From the RCVS a)First vaccination of a POM-V medicine – the animal must be under care of the prescribing veterinary surgeon (see Guide, part 2H) and the veterinary surgeon must carry out a clinical assessment (see Guide, part 2H); (for vaccination clinics see part 2E of the Guide); and then the veterinary surgeon may administer or under his or her direction a listed or student VN may administer (see Guide, Part 2F, on the Veterinary Surgeons Act and Schedule 3 specifically and also the interpretation of “direction”). If the veterinary surgeon is to certify the vaccination, the certification rules apply (see Guide, Part 2G and the annex on certification) and generally he or she must do it him or herself or witness it done. b)Subsequent vaccination some two weeks or so later (close in time to the first vaccination) – this is usually authorised by the veterinary surgeon at the time of the first vaccination (directed by the veterinary surgeon when the animal is under his or her care and when the clinical assessment is carried out) and therefore the administration of this vaccination and all dealings may be through a Listed or student VN at the practice, provided the veterinary surgeon is not intending to certify this vaccination. Nevertheless, it is helpful for a veterinary surgeon to be on the premises at the time the vaccine is administered to the animal, to be able to assist in the event of the animal suffering an adverse reaction. c)Booster (or subsequent vaccination not close in time to the first vaccination) - exactly the same as for the first vaccination.

Re: staff discounts

Fuzzyduck — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 20:56:47 GMT

Of course an owner only thinks they know when their animal is ill, but I'm not a normal owner, I've 14 years experience as a nurse and at doing clinical exams, I'm pretty sure I can do a basic clinical exam as good as most vets. I can take their temperatures, I can detect a heart murmur and grade it sometimes better than some vets. I can take their heart and resp rates, I can palpate their abdomens and know what is normal and what isn't. I can check their teeth and know what is normal and what isn't, all these things are what makes me a good nurse, so the vets I work with are happy to prescribe vaccines under their care because they trust me and my skills as a nurse. I would probably feel a little offended if the vets I worked with didn't trust me enough to vaccinate my animals, as I would wonder what else they didn't trust me with at work

Re: staff discounts

fairy — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:10:04 GMT

I would agree with Gillian. Vets have the expertise and authority to diagnose problems. Vet nurses may have an idea that something is wrong but without the relevant qualification, cannot diagnose.

Therefore, in my opinion, vets should be providing the healthcheck.

This also counts in regards to insurance stipulations. Animals often require a yearly healthcheck (usually used as the booster visit) to be covered for any insurance policies. A good example being dental treatment. Companies will often refuse to pay out if the patient has not been checked at least once a year as a general healthcheck.

Re: staff discounts

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 05 Dec 2013 00:00:02 GMT

OK. I could argue that any owner thinks they know when their pet is ill, but isn't always right, or able to carry out a full clinical examination in the same way as a veterinary surgeon would. When we tell clients that their animal's yearly health check is just as important as the actual vaccine, we really do mean it. But each to their own.

(2nd vaccs have already been prescribed with the 1st vacc so are an exception to the usual vaccination rules.)

Re: staff discounts

Bordadale — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 21:44:06 GMT

We can give 2nd vaccs in nurse clinics as long as that animal has had its 1st vacc at our practice but have never been asked to bring my own pet in for vaccination.I think most of us have the experience needed to determine if our own pet was ill and needed to be seen by a vet.

Re: staff discounts

Fuzzyduck — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 21:30:21 GMT

Nurses can't give vaccines in most practices, other than second vaccinations in some places. However these are my own pets, not a clients animals, so vets are happy for me to vaccinate my own animals. I've never worked anywhere where I've had to take my pet in to be vaccinated by a vet, I'm perfectly capable of determining if my own animal is ill and am capable of giving an injection so don't see any problem with vaccinating my own pets.

Re: staff discounts

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 11:19:00 GMT

POM-V medicines A Veterinary Medicinal Product (VMP) that has been classified as a POM-V may only be supplied to the client once it has been prescribed by a veterinary surgeon following a clinical assessment of an animal, or group of animals, under the veterinary surgeon's care.

It is a grey area as both ''clinical assessment' and 'under the veterinary surgeons care' are open to translation. The care does have to be real and not nominal though, so I think most vets would have preferred to have carried out their own clinical examination of the pet before a vaccine is administered - regardless of who does the injecting.

Re: staff discounts

fairy — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 00:10:55 GMT

I didn't think nurses could give boosters. As it would be a clinical desicion on whether the patient was well enough to receive it.

Re: staff discounts

Fuzzyduck — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 19:18:23 GMT

No not a 2 vaccine course, just a booster vaccine for each cat and yes I administer vaccines at home to my cats

Re: staff discounts

fairy — Sun, 01 Dec 2013 08:25:21 GMT

Did you say you were administering your animals vaccinations?

Re: staff discounts

Bordadale — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 22:46:10 GMT

That would make more sense if it is :)

Re: staff discounts

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 22:39:24 GMT

[quote user="Bordadale"]and for cats felv/tricat £15.76 so £65 for 2 cats seems a bit much to me![/quote]

Maybe it was for the 2 vaccine course?????

Re: staff discounts

Bordadale — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 15:04:18 GMT

75% is good.I would be happy with that.I agree £4.50 for vaccines is cheap but it was my boss who worked it out on my account! i have actually just worked it out and cost for dhppi l should be £11.12 and for cats felv/tricat £15.76 so £65 for 2 cats seems a bit much to me! have you looked at how much you are paying for vaccines and worked it out for yourself??? (just a thought!)

I can understand what your saying about caesarians and i just wanted other peoples opinions on to what they pay (or don't pay!).Luckily my girl has just given birth with no problems at all :)

Re: staff discounts

Fuzzyduck — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 14:35:34 GMT

We get a 75% discount on procedures, meds etc Vaccines are charged at cost price which last year for my 2 cats tricat/felv cost me £65 so I'm not sure how you're getting vaccines for £4.50! I would expect to pay something for a Caesarian though, 50% sounds pretty good to me, I know you say you don't make much profit from the puppies but you are selling them for money whereas for other procedure say your cat broke its leg, your only paying that to make your pet better so it seems fair to pay a bit more for something that you can get some of that money back if you understand what I mean

Re: staff discounts

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:48:42 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

I suppose everybody knows even if they haven't mentioned it that staff discounts are classed as 'benefits in kind' and are taxable

[/quote]

No good deed goes unpunished, eh? :)

Re: staff discounts

Sal the 1st — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:01:01 GMT

thats ok I can live with that - I once got taxed on some vouchers given me one Christmas by one of my bosses as benefits in kind , I kid you not!

Re: staff discounts

Louise B — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:54:33 GMT

[quote user="Sal the 1st"]

I suppose everybody knows even if they haven't mentioned it that staff discounts are classed as 'benefits in kind' and are taxable

[/quote]

Given you a five star rating for this. But five star DISLIKE rather than a five star LIKE